Elon Musk

meltonblue said:
He owns a social media platform, posts hundreds of times a day and is now entwined with the current US Fovrrbment.

People know Musk very well, and if this is the public projection he portrays alongside his actual actions too, I’m not sure knowing him personally would give anyone any difference of opinion.

Not sure how your last comment makes any sense. You’d rather go to an inhabitable planet rather than try and change trajectory on the habitable planet we’re on? That’s just absurd.
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No, I have never said that and we aren’t going to an inhabitable planet anytime soon. The US expends less than 0.1% of GDP on space so it isn’t happening. Merely getting there is enough of a problem without considering the necessary resources to research how to do more.

I’m just talking about space exploration where going to Mars is just one goal of many. If people have issues with those goals then they should take it up with the Obama administration who set the wheels in motion in 2016.

Either way my point is that people are finding anyway to reduce SpaceX’s role because of Musk but the fact is the achievements of SpaceX are plainly obvious. However, people are so burnt by politics that they can’t separate the two, it’s sad but predictable.
 
inbetween said:
No, I have never said that and we aren’t going to an inhabitable planet anytime soon. The US expends less than 0.1% of GDP on space so it isn’t happening. Merely getting there is enough of a problem without considering the necessary resources to research how to do more.

I’m just talking about space exploration where going to Mars is just one goal of many. If people have issues with those goals then they should take it up with the Obama administration who set the wheels in motion in 2016.

Either way my point is that people are finding anyway to reduce SpaceX’s role because of Musk but the fact is the achievements of SpaceX are plainly obvious. However, people are so burnt by politics that they can’t separate the two, it’s sad but predictable.
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If we look at Musk’s three main business ventures:

Tesla is in a death spiral and can only be saved by getting rid of Musk and rebranding unless it receives huge undeserved government contracts. People have a choice in what they buy, and normal people don’t want to line Musk’s pockets and be associated with him by using his products.

X is a cesspit and has turned into a propaganda outlet for the fascists in charge. It’s being abandoned by most right thinking people and organisations although it’s surprising that many governments are still using it.

SpaceX has a great product in Starlink but now we know its operators can’t be trusted and the US government could deny access to anyone on a whim it’s given a huge boost to competitors like Eutelsat’s Oneweb, which undoubtedly will see investment pour in to get it to a similar level as Starlink. It won’t be long before we see users abandoning Starlink in favour of Oneweb and other systems as more capacity comes online.

Whether you like it or not politics will clearly have an effect on businesses headed up by a sociopathic Nazi and so it should. It’s not sad, it’s inevitable.
 
west didsblue said:
If we look at Musk’s three main business ventures:

Tesla is in a death spiral and can only be saved by getting rid of Musk and rebranding unless it receives huge undeserved government contracts. People have a choice in what they buy, and normal people don’t want to line Musk’s pockets and be associated with him by using his products.

X is a cesspit and has turned into a propaganda outlet for the fascists in charge. It’s being abandoned by most right thinking people and organisations although it’s surprising that many governments are still using it.

SpaceX has a great product in Starlink but now we know its operators can’t be trusted and the US government could deny access to anyone on a whim it’s given a huge boost to competitors like Eutelsat’s Oneweb, which undoubtedly will see investment pour in to get it to a similar level as Starlink. It won’t be long before we see users abandoning Starlink in favour of Oneweb and other systems as more capacity comes online.

Whether you like it or not politics will clearly have an effect on businesses headed up by a sociopathic Nazi and so it should. It’s not sad, it’s inevitable.
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Exactly, the only thing sad and predictable was paucity of his (yet another) defence of Musk.
 
west didsblue said:
The prospect of that will be the only thing preventing a complete share price collapse.
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It won't be enough.

Tesla has a 97bn dollar revenue. It's around 70% retail car sales.

A conservative estimate of a 10% drop in car sales is going to cost them 7bn . Trump is not going to find 1bn to give to Tesla. Let alone 7.

And what's the real drop in sales going to be. I'd be surprised if it was less than 50% by the middle if the year. Assuming things carry on as they are.
 
Gareth Barry Conlon said:
It won't be enough.

Tesla has a 97bn dollar revenue. It's around 70% retail car sales.

A conservative estimate of a 10% drop in car sales is going to cost them 7bn . Trump is not going to find 1bn to give to Tesla. Let alone 7.

And what's the real drop in sales going to be. I'd be surprised if it was less than 50% by the middle if the year. Assuming things carry on as they are.
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I see republucan senators pimping themselves out online with buy a Tesla they are seriously worried if they are making them do that
 
Blue Maverick said:
I see republucan senators pimping themselves out online with buy a Tesla they are seriously worried if they are making them do that
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There are some things they can't BS away and just ignore or lie about.

They can't hide financial performance*. The financials are audited and disclosed every quarter. The next earnings report is due 19th April. It will cover the 3 months to March end. This time last year they reported sales down from 18.8 to 16.5bn like for like. Over the year to 12/2024 sales were pretty flat and falling in China and Europe. So its already a backdrop of poor performance. However even with recent drops the share price is up 40% over the last 12 months. So plenty if scope to drop further.
 
Gareth Barry Conlon said:
It won't be enough.

Tesla has a 97bn dollar revenue. It's around 70% retail car sales.

A conservative estimate of a 10% drop in car sales is going to cost them 7bn . Trump is not going to find 1bn to give to Tesla. Let alone 7.

And what's the real drop in sales going to be. I'd be surprised if it was less than 50% by the middle if the year. Assuming things carry on as they are.
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Investors are between a rock and a hard place, because the reality is that it's only because of Musk that the shares are so outrageously overvalued in the first place. The last thing anyone with Tesla shares wants is the company to be valued in line with its actual revenues as a car or tech company. They are one of the 'big 7' tech companies, but they are nowhere near any of the other 6 in terms of actual business fundamentals.
 
west didsblue said:
If we look at Musk’s three main business ventures:

Tesla is in a death spiral and can only be saved by getting rid of Musk and rebranding unless it receives huge undeserved government contracts. People have a choice in what they buy, and normal people don’t want to line Musk’s pockets and be associated with him by using his products.

X is a cesspit and has turned into a propaganda outlet for the fascists in charge. It’s being abandoned by most right thinking people and organisations although it’s surprising that many governments are still using it.

SpaceX has a great product in Starlink but now we know its operators can’t be trusted and the US government could deny access to anyone on a whim it’s given a huge boost to competitors like Eutelsat’s Oneweb, which undoubtedly will see investment pour in to get it to a similar level as Starlink. It won’t be long before we see users abandoning Starlink in favour of Oneweb and other systems as more capacity comes online.

Whether you like it or not politics will clearly have an effect on businesses headed up by a sociopathic Nazi and so it should. It’s not sad, it’s inevitable.
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Your argument on OneWeb is silly.

SpaceX/Starlink has a 5+ year head start on any competitor but its most crucial advantage is that it is its own launch provider.

Or are you telling me that Europe will soon be launching <$100m rapid reusable rockets anytime soon? No chance.

As much as a Starlink competitor does not exist a Falcon 9 competitor also does not exist but it has to exist or else you have to give money to your competitor just to get stuff up there.

It’s like running a pizza restaurant but you have to buy in your pizzas from the pizza restaurant competitor next door. You then sell your crappy cold and more expensive pizzas to customers whilst somehow trying to claim that they’re better.

It’s an almost ridiculous business model. It’s no wonder that OneWeb was virtually bankrupt 5 years ago.
 
If Elon and his tech teens are uncovering so much fraud why do the statements end at "uncovering billions of dollars of fraud" and not name those fraudsters and why are there no charges? FFS they deport supposed criminals at the drop of a hat
 
inbetween said:
Your argument on OneWeb is silly.

SpaceX/Starlink has a 5+ year head start on any competitor but its most crucial advantage is that it is its own launch provider.

Or are you telling me that Europe will soon be launching <$100m rapid reusable rockets anytime soon? No chance.

As much as a Starlink competitor does not exist a Falcon 9 competitor also does not exist but it has to exist or else you have to give money to your competitor just to get stuff up there.

It’s like running a pizza restaurant but you have to buy in your pizzas from the pizza restaurant competitor next door. You then sell your crappy cold and more expensive pizzas to customers whilst somehow trying to claim that they’re better.

It’s an almost ridiculous business model. It’s no wonder that OneWeb was virtually bankrupt 5 years ago.
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As usual you’ve totally missed the point. Not only that, your description of Oneweb is inaccurate.

The point is that SpaceX/Starlink are no longer dependable suppliers because they are under the control of a barely disguised Nazi who seems to have a close relationship with Putin, and are under the jurisdiction of a government led by a lunatic who is upending traditional alliances on a whim.

Not all Oneweb satellites have been launched by SpaceX. Early ones were launched by the Russians and more recently they’ve been using the Indians. At least one launch was by the ESA in French Guiana using Ariane. The reason for mostly using Falcon 9 has been that it has been the most cost effective way of doing it. If/when SpaceX becomes politically untenable to use, they’ll use the Indian LVM-3 more or will use Ariane and will have to pay the extra.

Although Oneweb is inferior to Starlink at the moment, it still has decent coverage in many parts of the world and it’s quite likely that European users will want to become less dependent on Starlink which will result in additional investment in alternatives like Oneweb. It wasn’t a coincidence that Eutelsat’s share price quadrupled in a day after Trump’s spat with Zelenskyy.

As long as the US was a reliable ally, the Oneweb business model may not have been great, but things have changed.

Your pizza analogy was also shit btw.
 
west didsblue said:
As usual you’ve totally missed the point. Not only that, your description of Oneweb is inaccurate.

The point is that SpaceX/Starlink are no longer dependable suppliers because they are under the control of a barely disguised Nazi who seems to have a close relationship with Putin, and are under the jurisdiction of a government led by a lunatic who is upending traditional alliances on a whim.

Not all Oneweb satellites have been launched by SpaceX. Early ones were launched by the Russians and more recently they’ve been using the Indians. At least one launch was by the ESA in French Guiana using Ariane. The reason for mostly using Falcon 9 has been that it has been the most cost effective way of doing it. If/when SpaceX becomes politically untenable to use, they’ll use the Indian LVM-3 more or will use Ariane and will have to pay the extra.

Although Oneweb is inferior to Starlink at the moment, it still has decent coverage in many parts of the world and it’s quite likely that European users will want to become less dependent on Starlink which will result in additional investment in alternatives like Oneweb. It wasn’t a coincidence that Eutelsat’s share price quadrupled in a day after Trump’s spat with Zelenskyy.

As long as the US was a reliable ally, the Oneweb business model may not have been great, but things have changed.

Your pizza analogy was also shit btw.
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Totally mad logic.

If you’re saying that SpaceX is unreliable then the fact is that’s fine but your business is now dead so it’s pointless trying.

Your protest will kill you because forgoing SpaceX will cost you a lot more to launch and you’ll only be able to launch a handful of times per year at best (if at all). How on earth you could hope to do this and then compete with Starlink is just well crazy talk.

It doesn’t matter what your political views are on Musk, you use SpaceX or you don’t go at all. Why do you think OneWeb have based their satellite manufacturing in Florida….?

I’m sorry but offering alternatives such as Ariane is also nonsense. SpaceX have launched 33 rockets this year, Ariane have launched just 1. There is no contest unless they can scale but nobody is funding that scaling because everybody who wants to put stuff into space currently all use SpaceX!

Would you as a business pay $50m more to launch to spite Elon Musk? It’s laughable.
 
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inbetween said:
Totally mad logic.

If you’re saying that SpaceX is unreliable then the fact is that’s fine but your business is now dead so it’s pointless trying.

Your protest will kill you because forgoing SpaceX will cost you a lot more to launch and you’ll only be able to launch a handful of times per year at best (if at all). How on earth you could hope to do this and then compete with Starlink is just well crazy talk.

It doesn’t matter what your political views are on Musk, you use SpaceX or you don’t go at all. Why do you think OneWeb have based their satellite manufacturing in Florida….?

I’m sorry but offering alternatives such as Ariane is also nonsense. SpaceX have launched 33 rockets this year, Ariane have launched just 1. There is no contest unless they can scale but nobody is funding that scaling because everybody who wants to put stuff into space currently all use SpaceX!

Would you as a business pay $50m more to launch to spite Elon Musk? It’s laughable.
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You really don’t get it do you.

While SpaceX/Starlink were a reliable operator in a trustworthy jurisdiction there was little incentive for governments and other investors to put much money into developing alternatives.

Do you honestly think European governments are going to be happy carrying on relying on Starlink for military and other essential communications if they know that it can be denied to them on a whim if Trump or Musk wants to pressure a particular government.

The logical consequence is that they will invest in an alternative, and the one that offers something, albeit suboptimal and more expensive, is Oneweb. Once that investment goes in and Oneweb increases its coverage and bandwidth and becomes competitive it will start to get more commercial customers as well as governments.

I remember you making a similar argument about Tesla being so far ahead of its competitors that the rest might as well not bother. Look how that’s turned out.

The fact that you think politics can be totally separated from business is just bizarre.
 
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