Middle East Conflict

[BigJoe#1]

Good grief. "Where would you have the Jews reside...?" I answered that last week, "in Israel". then asked you what are the boundaries of Israel? Happy in your ignorance, you ignored that question. Too much history for you?

Oh, sorry, too aggressive?

Not really.

You want to let the Jews live in Israel, then you tell me where that "Israel" is acceptable. I don't know where the boundaries of Israel are that would be acceptable to you and/or the Palestinians are. I was of the understanding that the Palestinians didn't want the Jews on their land? Am I misguided there?

Now just calm down and have a discussion, or alternatively I don't mind if you don't bother.

 

[cucumberman]

Is this not too dissimilar to what happened on 7/10?.... Murders and kidnappings?

Not for one second advocating what has happened here but it looks very much like tit for tat type tactics - which again I do not support.

You’re now my one and only Ignore list. Wasting time on conjectures and not facts.

You’re the weakest link. Goodbye

 

[robbieh]

Not really.

You want to let the Jews live in Israel, then you tell me where that "Israel" is acceptable. I don't know where the boundaries of Israel are that would be acceptable to you and/or the Palestinians are. I was of the understanding that the Palestinians didn't want the Jews on their land? Am I misguided there?

Now just calm down and have a discussion, or alternatively I don't mind if you don't bother.

I think Hamas have accepted the 1967 border. Which means the currently illegally occupied West Bank and the Gaza strip.

Israel don't want this as for starters there are roughly half a million settlers living in the West Bank.

On a point about the words illegally occupied West bank. The BBC and most western media then add but Israel dispute this.

This rarely happens with other countries.

 

[cucumberman]

With this new and more violent bombing (always during Ramadhan each year) I’m contacting friends in Gaza on an hourly basis now. A few came back to Gaza from abroad (including us) during the ceasefire because of opportunities to check home. Now they can’t get out but they accept and are contented.

Despite differences in religion, They really have perseverance. One of them is a supervisor for PhD students here and their routine is to not talk constantly about the disaster and instead talk about worklife, helping European students to pass their theses and viva, do tutorials and consultations etc.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Not really.

You want to let the Jews live in Israel, then you tell me where that "Israel" is acceptable. I don't know where the boundaries of Israel are that would be acceptable to you and/or the Palestinians are. I was of the understanding that the Palestinians didn't want the Jews on their land? Am I misguided there?

Now just calm down and have a discussion, or alternatively I don't mind if you don't bother.

BJ,
You know full well why people are giving you stick.
You can Google all the stuff you are asking, yourself, if you really wanted to.

However, here ye go.

Google Image Result for https://i.redd.it/ybf6j9bbtdxb1.png

 

[BlueHammer85]

Well to be honest that is an opinion, my opinion. Like I said nobody is going to take a blind bit of notice.

So what would your "next step" proposals be?

I don't claim to know vey much on the subject unlike you and the other well read posters / experts on here, but I do value your well placed criticism and feedback. My lack of understanding could easily be classified as ignorance just as yours could if your understanding was at odds with someone else's,

I would be interested to learn what you would do, again safe in the knowledge that anyone who matters will take absolutely no notice.

Do you not see that your self acclaimed lack of ignorance rubs people up the wrong way ? I just assume you’re a bit thick and dense but others may think you are on the wind up. You seem to spend an awful amount of time polluting the political threads in which you self admit that you don’t really have much of a clue about any of the subjects.

 

[Vic]

Not really.

You want to let the Jews live in Israel, then you tell me where that "Israel" is acceptable. I don't know where the boundaries of Israel are that would be acceptable to you and/or the Palestinians are. I was of the understanding that the Palestinians didn't want the Jews on their land? Am I misguided there?

Now just calm down and have a discussion, or alternatively I don't mind if you don't bother.

I've posted loads on this thread about the original ambitions of Zionism, a professedly colonial enterprise, and the growing realisation by the Zionists that the existing occupants of the land (Palestine as it then was) would not readily agree to being "hewers of wood and drawers of water" (Joshua 9:21) and would resist the occupation of their land. How much land? From the river Jordan to the sea (and beyond for some - east of the river - what is now Jordan).

Could there ever have been an amicable living together? Read "The Iron Wall" (Jabotinsky).

It largely explains why the Arabs fought against the establishment of the state of Israel. The Zionist vision was that all Jews should move to Israel - maybe 10 million in 1900 with a total population in Palestine then of half a million. And when the British restricted Jewish immigration pre-WW2, the Zionists resorted to terrorism.

What would be an acceptable way for Jews and Palestinians to share the land? The "first step" would be for other countries to stop funding genocide.

 

[Luddite_Blue]

It really is exhausting trying to keep up with israels daily atrocities. This is what happened yesterday:



Highly likely there will be worse days than this even this week

There's an Al Jazeera video featuring the 24 hours:




And a statement from Drop Site News on Israel’s murder of their colleague Hossam Shabat, one of the 2 journalists killed by Israel:

Statement from Drop Site News on Israel’s Murder of Our Colleague Hossam Shabat: We Hold Both Israel and the U.S. Government Responsible

Today, March 24, 2025, Israel killed journalist Hossam Shabat, a reporter for Al Jazeera Mubasher and a contributing reporter to Drop Site News, in what witnesses described as a targeted strike.

www.dropsitenews.com

 

[west didsblue]

BJ,
You know full well why people are giving you stick.
You can Google all the stuff you are asking, yourself, if you really wanted to.

However, here ye go.
View attachment 150956

Google Image Result for https://i.redd.it/ybf6j9bbtdxb1.png

First time I’ve seen someone post some maps that are close to being historically accurate, unlike the 4 propaganda maps usually posted that ignore the fact that the Ottoman Empire followed by the British Empire controlled the whole area for hundreds of years.

 

[cucumberman]

There's an Al Jazeera video featuring the 24 hours:




And a statement from Drop Site News on Israel’s murder of their colleague Hossam Shabat, one of the 2 journalists killed by Israel:

Statement from Drop Site News on Israel’s Murder of Our Colleague Hossam Shabat: We Hold Both Israel and the U.S. Government Responsible

Today, March 24, 2025, Israel killed journalist Hossam Shabat, a reporter for Al Jazeera Mubasher and a contributing reporter to Drop Site News, in what witnesses described as a targeted strike.

www.dropsitenews.com

Hossam Shabat being murdered is the representation of the the selfless being killed by the selfish.

 

[cucumberman]

This is digging a deeper hole.



Is it worth a new thread forum topic in BM?

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

Hossam Shabat being murdered is the representation of the the selfless being killed by the selfish.

Human rights watch "This is no accident"



210 dead (purposely targetted) journalists now is it!?

Oh well carry on as normal. No need to bother with any actual action. Lammy can put a tweet out saying how concerned he is again when the death toll of children racks up a few more thousand and everyone can ignore it whilst israel cracks on with its genocide

 

[Postman Pep]

This is digging a deeper hole.



Is it worth a new thread forum topic in BM?

Listened to the full interview the other night. Over 2 hours but worth it imo.

 

[Luddite_Blue]

What genocide?

An abridged version of an Owen Jones substack article (part 1).

המלחמות של הרצי הלוי

www-ynet-co-il.translate.goog

From a story in Ynet translated from Hebrew in to English:

When Herzi Halevi presented the IDF's operations to the cabinet in the first 48 hours of the war, he noted that the Air Force had attacked 1,500 targets in Gaza. This is a huge number, requiring exceptional intelligence and operational capabilities. Netanyahu erupted in anger, yelling and banging on the table. "Why not 5,000?" he scolded the Chief of Staff. "We don't have 5,000 approved targets," Halevi replied. "I'm not interested in targets," Netanyahu retorted. "Take down houses, bomb with everything you have."


As US lawyer Dylan Williams notes:

This Netanyahu quote reported by an Israeli outlet constitutes prima facie evidence of:

1. the war crime of intentionally directing an attack against a civilian population; and

2. intent to kill to destroy, in part, a national or ethnic group—elements of the crime of genocide.


This itself is corroborated by what Joe Biden said when, describing his conversation with Netanyahu after the first week or so after 7th October - Biden said he warned Netanyahu to stop carpet bombing communities. But clearly there was no shift in Israeli policy so the US just facilitated that carpet bombing with a relentless supply of weapons.

As research by the NGO Airwars found, at least 5,139 Palestinians civilians were killed by the Israeli army in October 2023, which is what this article is discussing, and of those at least 1,900 were children. They concluded “It is by far the most intense, destructive, and fatal conflict for civilians that Airwars has ever documented.”

They concluded that of the incidents examined in this indiscriminate destruction demanded by Netanyahu, 99.4% of incidents killed civilians, and 0.6% killed militants.

It is also worth reflecting on an article published in Israeli newspaper Haaretz in July 2024:

Netanyahu ordered Israeli army to turn off recording of meetings after October 7

***

www.haaretz.com

As soon as the war with Hamas began on October 7, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ordered that the army's recording system be turned off in the command center at army headquarters, which is where all security cabinet meetings and other defense-related meetings were being held in those days. The army complied with this order.

 

[Luddite_Blue]

An abridged version of an Owen Jones substack article (part 2):

But what of the plans being proposed now. Well the Financial Times explains that the Israeli military has drawn up plans to “reconquer Gaza in a bid to finally defeat Hamas.”

It says it’s not yet approved by the security cabinet but had been devised by the new IDF chief of staff with the unofficial backing of far right ministers. And frankly it is terrifying

Gaza is already one of the most densely populated communities on earth as is, with a pre-genocide population of 2.3 million or so, and a land area similar to east London. This plan proposes confining the surviving population into a tiny area of Gaza, coded the al-Mawasi Humanitarian area. The plan would then mean administering Gaza and reoccupying it - but not like last time because this population will be forced into what in practise would be an intolerable concentration camp:




Indeed, chillingly, the Financial Times reports:

One of the people familiar with the deliberations said Israel could take over the distribution of all humanitarian aid and had recently assessed how many calories each Palestinian would require.

We should link this plan to the desire of the Israeli state to “thin out” the population.

Netanyahu’s Goal for Gaza: “Thin” Population “to a Minimum”

The White House requested billions to support refugee resettlement from Ukraine and Gaza in October.

theintercept.com

 

[BlueTG]

Is this not too dissimilar to what happened on 7/10?.... Murders and kidnappings?

Not for one second advocating what has happened here but it looks very much like tit for tat type tactics - which again I do not support.

How is killing journalists ‘tit for tat’? It’s quite literally a war crime.

 

[BigJoe#1]

How is killing journalists ‘tit for tat’? It’s quite literally a war crime.

Agreed and it has to stop.... were the journalists killed before or after 7/10? Were they targeted or collateral damage? Either way it was a despicable action and if it was targeted it could well be classified as a war crime... but it has to stop.

All I believe (and I could be wrong) is that releasing the hostages might help put pressure on Israel and bring an end to this (again I could be wrong) but personally I think continuing holding the hostages will just prolong the situation and more innocent civilians are sure to suffer. Who knows if they'd released the hostages weeks ago, those journalists could still be alive... then again... who knows?

 

[Postman Pep]

Agreed and it has to stop.... were the journalists killed before or after 7/10? Were they targeted or collateral damage? Either way it was a despicable action and if it was targeted it could well be classified as a war crime... but it has to stop.

All I believe (and I could be wrong) is that releasing the hostages might help put pressure on Israel and bring an end to this (again I could be wrong) but personally I think continuing holding the hostages will just prolong the situation and more innocent civilians are sure to suffer. Who knows if they'd released the hostages weeks ago, those journalists could still be alive... then again... who knows?

Is the penny finally dropping ;-)

 

[Postman Pep]

Update on potential complicity. Questions should be asked surely.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Is the penny finally dropping ;-)

It has been my position from the early days 80)