President Trump

I have never been to America never intend going you can shove Disneyland up your arse.

How can a country like America be so badly run ? The choice was trump or some bloke who couldn't remember his name until he got replaced.

I know it's unreasonable but I wouldn't trust any American, I hate seeing tesla cars being driven by middle class twats in this country !
I hate the American ownership of pl clubs and their fucking whitch hunt against our club.

Why do Americans think the rest of the world should live to their fucking rules ? Why ? I don't fucking get their Billy big bollocks attitude to the rest of the world.

Americans think Hollywood only make documentaries, that America won WW11 on its own. Fuck me the film about the Great Escape in real life there wasn't one American in that camp !

I'm getting sick to death of this fucking orange prick and his knobhead supporters

I darent even look at my pension
 
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The Art of the Clown. Trump has no powers of negotiation whatsoever.

Nobody who has would ever, for instance, boast that the very F-35 fighters they are trying to sell to other countries might be restricted in some way, in case 'they might not always be friendly'. Terrific sales technique, that. Total imbecile.

Anybody can threaten a less-powerful adversary. Using blackmail and threats isn't 'cutting a deal'.

Those disgusting sycophants who lap it up when he comes out with his 'they say Sir, how can we please you...' crap are as much to blame as the other 75m breadheads who voted him in. Some of them, for whom the penny's finally starting to drop, are even crying that 'nobody warned them' !

Perhaps they genuinely didn't realise that this was the same Donald Trump they voted in before?

The world has taken style-over-substance for decades, now - but I never thought that we'd ever see a set of unashamed - proud, even - playground bullies running the world, with constitutions, judicial bodies, or surely what must be an overwhelming number of less-deranged peers totally incapable of stopping them.
 
ROCKET80 said:
I respect your take, but I think you've misrepresented what multiculturalism is. It doesn’t mean there’s no shared culture or national identity, it means people from different backgrounds can maintain aspects of their cultural heritage while also participating in the wider society.

The UK has always been a product of multiculturalism, it's been shaped by centuries of migration and cultural exchange. The national identity has never been fixed, it evolves through diversity.

In fact, studies have shown that immigrants often display higher levels of patriotism and attachment to their new country than the general population. That speaks volumes about the strength and success of integration in a truly multicultural society.

Bringing this back to Trump, his appeal taps into deeper identity struggles in the US. A country built on both colonialism and migration, yet reluctant to fully acknowledge either. The idea of a singular, dominant American culture ignores the reality that the US has always been a mix of influences; Indigenous, European, Latin American, African, and more. Instead of embracing its complexity, parts of the US cling to a narrow, idealised version of America shaped by old Puritan values and rigid moral beliefs.

Trump offers a simplified identity rooted in nostalgia and exclusion, not because people feel unsafe with change, but because acknowledging America’s true, complex identity means confronting uncomfortable truths about its past and present. For some, that’s harder to accept than holding onto a myth.

Multiculturalism, whether in the UK or the US, isn’t about erasing identity, it’s about broadening it to reflect the people who actually live there. The question is whether we’re willing to live with that complexity or retreat into myths of cultural uniformity that never really existed.
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This is the progressive liberal view of multiculturalism and it's been taken as read in the UK since the war, for two reasons. The first being that the two great wars of the early 20th Century had at their root ethnonationalism, the same could be said of what's happening in Ukraine now, the Balkan wars, tribal wars in Africa and so on, ethonationalism is seen by progressives as a scourge and multiculturalism is its cure, but this has happened very rapidly. If you were able to travel back to any time before say 1950 and talked about multiculturalism with a bloke in the pub anywhere in the UK, people would have thought you'd gone bonkers, particularly as they'd just finished fighting a war to preserve this island race.

The second reason is labour, folk from the ex colonies here, the gastarbeiter in Germany and so on were all needed for post war construction and once you're hooked on cheap labour or skilled labour on demand trained at someone else's expense there's no going back, despite what the Brexiteers might say.

So here we are, as Farage says no one asked the British people about this and while he's wrong about almost everything he's not wrong about that, as for....

"The UK has always been a product of multiculturalism, it's been shaped by centuries of migration and cultural exchange. The national identity has never been fixed, it evolves through diversity."

That is the off the shelf reply and liberals applaud it every time it's wheeled out, but it’s simply not true, at least not in the way you frame it. The UK for much of its existence has been a mixture of Anglo Saxons, Normans, Celts, Danes and so on, but we’re talking tiny population flows by post war standards. Prior to the Second World War the ethnic and cultural changes in the UK were on a glacial scale compared to the numbers and rapidity we see today, that is simply a fact, by stating “The national identity has never been fixed, it evolves through diversity” it does not, it evolves through integration, and that's true everywhere, go ask the Hutu and the Tutsi about a national identity evolving through diversity, stay closer to home and go to the old Lancashire mill towns, go to Bradford and tell me how diversity there is forging a new national identity.

Diversity does not, in of itself create a strong national identity, if anything quite the opposite, homogeneous societies have the strongest national identities and on the whole they're the most stable and harmonious societies.

Put simply there can be no evolution of our national identity without integration, and there can be no integration without something to integrate with. A strong national identity, albeit of a particular kind, is prerequisite to a stable and functioning multicultural society, but in Britain we've failed to identify a distinct national notion of belonging. A cohesive notion of a multicultural society cannot be based simply on the idea that we should respect other people's values. It also requires a positive articulation of the values underpinning such as society.

The key word here is "cohesive". Forget slogans like "diversity is our strength" coz without a strong glue it does precisely the opposite.
 
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bluethrunthru said:
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He may have a point. Trump appears to have forgotten about Ukraine, the minerals deal and military aid is flowing again apparently.

What’s the odds on all tariffs disappearing by end of April, followed by a grand ‘victory’ parade with US marines goose-stepping down Pennsylvania Avenue.
 
The perfect fumble said:
This is the progressive liberal view of multiculturalism and it's been taken as read in the UK since the war, for two reasons. The first being that the two great wars of the early 20th Century had at their root ethnonationalism, the same could be said of what's happening in Ukraine now, the Balkan wars, tribal wars in Africa and so on, ethonationalism is seen by progressives as a scourge and multiculturalism is its cure, but this has happened very rapidly. If you were able to travel back to any time before say 1950 and talked about multiculturalism with a bloke in the pub anywhere in the UK, people would have thought you'd gone bonkers, particularly as they'd just finished fighting a war to preserve this island race.

The second reason is labour, folk from the ex colonies here, the gastarbeiter in Germany and so on were all needed for post war construction and once you're hooked on cheap labour or skilled labour on demand trained at someone else's expense there's no going back, despite what the Brexiteers might say.

So here we are, as Farage says no one asked the British people about this and while he's wrong about almost everything he's not wrong about that, as for....

"The UK has always been a product of multiculturalism, it's been shaped by centuries of migration and cultural exchange. The national identity has never been fixed, it evolves through diversity."

That is the off the shelf reply and liberals applaud it every time it's wheeled out, but it’s simply not true, at least not in the way you frame it. The UK for much of its existence has been a mixture of Anglo Saxons, Normans, Celts, Danes and so on, but we’re talking tiny numbers by post war standards, prior to the Second World War the ethnic and cultural changes in the UK were on a glacial scale compared to the numbers and rapidity we see today, that is simply a fact, by stating “The national identity has never been fixed, it evolves through diversity” it does not, it evolves by integration, and that's true everywhere, go ask the Hutu and the Tutsi about a national identity evolving through diversity, stay closer to home and go to the old Lancashire mill towns, go to Bradford and tell me how diversity there is forging a new national identity.

Diversity does not, in of itself create a strong national identity, if anything quite the opposite, homogeneous societies have the strongest national identities and on the whole they're the most stable and harmonious societies.

Put simply there can be no evolution of our national identity without integration, and there can be no integration without something to integrate with. A strong national identity, albeit of a particular kind, is prerequisite to a stable and functioning multicultural society, but in Britain we've failed to identify a distinct national notion of belonging. A cohesive notion of a multicultural society cannot be based simply on the idea that we should respect other people's values. It also requires a positive articulation of the values underpinning such as society.

The key word here is "cohesive". Forget slogans like "diversity is our strength" coz without a strong glue it does precisely the opposite.
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To be fair, to preserve this ‘island race’ we had West Indians, Canadians, Indians - over 2.5 Indian million troops by 1945 and around 120,000 Gurkhas who served.

Pretty decent of them to chip in to save our rainy island :)
 
BobKowalski said:
He may have a point. Trump appears to have forgotten about Ukraine, the minerals deal and military aid is flowing again apparently.

What’s the odds on all tariffs disappearing by end of April, followed by a grand ‘victory’ parade with US marines goose-stepping down Pennsylvania Avenue.
Click to expand...

Looks like he's going to get his military parade, budget around a hundred million Dollars, coincidentally it'll take place on his birthday.
 
BobKowalski said:
To be fair, to preserve this ‘island race’ we had West Indians, Canadians, Indians - over 2.5 Indian million troops by 1945 and around 120,000 Gurkhas who served.

Pretty decent of them to chip in to save our rainy island :)
Click to expand...

That's because we fought both wars as the British Empire. The British Empire protected all its constituent parts, hence the size and power of the British Navy, an attack on any one of those parts was an attack on the whole.

British kids are taught little about the history of the British Empire, largely because it is viewed as a discredited part of our history and a negative influence that ought not be remembered. Centre-left discourse in the UK tends to associate the nation with imperialism and therefore sees nationalism as reflecting a doctrine of the supremacy of the English over other ethnic elements in Britain. This view is reflected in the elimination of the history of the British Empire from the curriculum; the intent being to remove the divisive consequences of Britain's imperialist past from the national memory. However, the unintended effect of this is that the curriculum obscures the contribution of multiethnic elements in British history, thereby undermining the civic historical narrative.

In other words because we shy away from teaching about the British Empire as a whole we downplay the massive contribution of all its people, instead restricting it to isolated events or themes such as slavery, postwar immigration, and Black history month. Many of the ethnic minorities in this country are descendants of folk who rallied to the defence of this country. That should be recognised, it should be celebrated, it makes them as much a part of "our" story as the archers at Agincourt, but no one thinks in those terms because we don't talk about it, let alone teach it and we should if we're going to create a more cohesive and inclusive national identity.
 
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I see a Real Madrid fan was sent to El Salvador prison because he had a crown tattoo (which certain gangs have) doesn’t bode well for the Club World Cup!
 
give it to gordon said:
I hate seeing tesla cars being driven by middle class twats in this country !
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a woman in our local Lidl a few months back moaning that things were so bad that she had to come to Lidl to do top ups to her M&S main shop ( obviously not condescending to us proles ) then gets in her new Tesla and drives off
 
give it to gordon said:
Why do Americans think the rest of the world should live to their fucking rules ? Why ? I don't fucking get their Billy big bollocks attitude to the rest of the world.
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I said on here the day after the result was declared his utterances and those of Vance made me realise they thought they had won world presidency not the US presidency
 
Manchester33 said:
Yeah it’s the worst possible time to sell. Best to just ride it out and hope things stabilise.

If I had a few quid lying around I’d be buying cheap stocks right now…

All the idiots in America who voted for him are to blame. They knew he was an unstable sex offender…. Difficult to understand why they thought he’d be capable of managing the biggest economy in the world.
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Looks like he’s managing it the way he managed several other failed businesses.
 
bluethrunthru said:
a woman in our local Lidl a few months back moaning that things were so bad that she had to come to Lidl to do top ups to her M&S main shop ( obviously not condescending to us proles ) then gets in her new Tesla and drives off
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She obviously didn’t know about Heron Foods yet then if she thought Lidl was rough!
 
Manchester33 said:
Yeah it’s the worst possible time to sell. Best to just ride it out and hope things stabilise.

If I had a few quid lying around I’d be buying cheap stocks right now…

All the idiots in America who voted for him are to blame. They knew he was an unstable sex offender…. Difficult to understand why they thought he’d be capable of managing the biggest economy in the world.
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Apple’s market cap alone is down over a trillion from its peak thanks to this lunatic’s idiocy. Add in all the other world leading companies whose stock is down by similar percentages it will become clear that this nonsense is unsustainable even in the short term now that the multi-billionaires are seeing their wealth reducing by billions. They are the only ones who can influence Trump.

I predict a Trump declaration of victory based on some spurious nonsense within a month followed by a suspension of most tariffs. Meanwhile the rest of the world will be planning to reduce their dependence on the US both militarily and economically and there will be just one long term loser.
 
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