UK supreme court ruling on legal definition of a woman

[Gaylord du Bois]

My Wife has when in a Ladies changing room and the Blokes Bollocks were hanging out for everyone to see.

Yeah. Sorry about that. I was in a bit of a rush.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Treat all people with respect.

Job done.

 

[wolviedinho]

Some very interesting views on this minute issue.

What is it like 0.4/5% of people in the uk identify as trans? Thats an awful lot of noise from a small minority.

The ruling is simple and long overdue.

Trans people do have rights and that should be protected. It’s not ok to erode women’s /girls rights in the process.

Trans in female prisons
Trans in female safe space
Transfer in female toilets just use the disabled?
Trans in breast feeding classes
Trans in female sport
Trans in female support groups, especially those groups that deal with male violence.

The law needed to intervene. Now it’s crystal clear.

As I said at the start, we are talking about a tiny minority. Its shouldn’t even be newsworthy.

Fair play to the rags tho, played a defender who identified as a forward and won. The media would have you believe they have be transitioning now for about 15 seasons. -:)

 

[Blue and true]

Hi Bob
I'll answer because I know you have a genuine interest in this.

Trans people did indeed live among us for many years without us knowing.

I think the recent issue now is that it's becoming much more aggressive from those with a political/activist agenda.

Speech for example. It might not seem important but I am NOT a "CIS" woman, I'm a woman. That's it: no diminishing my sex or my identity, thanks all the same.

Sports; Let girls and women compete on an equal playing field. Again, not much to ask.

NHS; Allow clear language that is not ambiguous/convuluted and people can understand.

Puberty Blockers; now I know most Trans people may not be a part of promoting this but activism around this whole horrendous, almost dystopian agenda is something future generations may look back on and despair.
I'll tell you now....if anyone encouraged a child to do that then they need putting in prison.

This whole argument, as I've said before, isn't just about toilets etc. It was becoming much more insidious.
Because that is what fringe activists do.

For what it's worth, as you know, I'm live and let live. Unless it encroaches on myself and kids.

Brilliant post.

It's the sport issue, for me. Letting a "woman" that is still physiologically a man, and has that advantageous prowess, compete against biological women is shameful.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Brilliant post.

It's the sport issue, for me. Letting a "woman" that is still physiologically a man, and has that advantageous prowess, compete against biological women is shameful.

For me, the principal issue is the amount of noise that gets generated on this issues from such a tiny proportion of the population. In general terms I support the right to self-identify, but not as @mackenzie has said, at the expense of the rights of others in society.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

And the other thing I don’t like is being told, in such strident, and even truculent terms, how the fuck I should think.

 

[Mon Autre]

I’m not sure there is an answer other than the creation of a third public space for transgender, in fact transgender exists so provision will have to be made. Gender is decided at birth there are babies born with any combination of XY a friend of ours had a baby born a boy but because she didn’t have the right equipment she was changed to a girl at birth.

Transgender will have to keep fighting for their human rights the judge said your rights are unaffected by this legislation, he also asked that the women who brought the case, not to celebrate and what did they go out and do, jumping for joy outside the court.

Ironically, what those women were celebrating was a ruling and a mindset that will barely impact trans women who "pass" but will absolutely invite more judgement and pressue on cis gendered women who are more "masculine" in their appearance. Trans women who look feminine will continue to use the toilets and changing rooms that they wish to unnoticed and unchallenged. Whereas cis women who don't look how these so-called feminists expect them to will now be more worried and face more scrutiny going bout their daily business. There is absolutely nothing liberating or protective about foisting gender essentialist expectations like this onto anybody.

And the peak level of irony at play here is the fact that JK Rowling has used her own riches to pay for her own gender affirming plastic surgery through the years. If you look at pictures of her from years ago she had exactly the type of facial structure that might attract some suspicious sideways glances in the bogs from her own nasty crowd. Perhaps she should crowdfund plastic surgery for cis women whose appearance offends her.

 

[.db.]

Ironically, what those women were celebrating was a ruling and a mindset that will barely impact trans women who "pass" but will absolutely invite more judgement and pressue on cis gendered women who are more "masculine" in their appearance. Trans women who look feminine will continue to use the toilets and changing rooms that they wish to unnoticed and unchallenged. Whereas cis women who don't look how these so-called feminists expect them to will now be more worried and face more scrutiny going bout their daily business. There is absolutely nothing liberating or protective about foisting gender essentialist expectations like this onto anybody.

And the peak level of irony at play here is the fact that JK Rowling has used her own riches to pay for her own gender affirming plastic surgery through the years. If you look at pictures of her from years ago she had exactly the type of facial structure that might attract some suspicious sideways glances in the bogs from her own nasty crowd. Perhaps she should crowdfund plastic surgery for cis women whose appearance offends her.

As the women in this thread have told us. It’s not ‘cis’ women, it’s just women.

 

[blue is best]

Ironically, what those women were celebrating was a ruling and a mindset that will barely impact trans women who "pass" but will absolutely invite more judgement and pressue on cis gendered women who are more "masculine" in their appearance. Trans women who look feminine will continue to use the toilets and changing rooms that they wish to unnoticed and unchallenged. Whereas cis women who don't look how these so-called feminists expect them to will now be more worried and face more scrutiny going bout their daily business. There is absolutely nothing liberating or protective about foisting gender essentialist expectations like this onto anybody.

And the peak level of irony at play here is the fact that JK Rowling has used her own riches to pay for her own gender affirming plastic surgery through the years. If you look at pictures of her from years ago she had exactly the type of facial structure that might attract some suspicious sideways glances in the bogs from her own nasty crowd. Perhaps she should crowdfund plastic surgery for cis women whose appearance offends her.

Could you please stop referring to women born as biological women as cis women, I don’t think there’s any need for it on this forum, women/woman will be fine as everyone will be aware when reading the thread what the words women/woman means, thank you.

 

[blueinsa]

As the women in this thread have told us. It’s not ‘cis’ women, it’s just women.

Demands respect and to be heard yet can’t show any back, continuing to use a label that she has been told by female posters on here they don’t like nor want.

This is the issue in this argument. They don’t want a middle ground, they want their own way.

 

[Rory Bluelow]

One thing I would comment on the supreme court decision is this...

These are the sexes and ages of the members of the supreme court:

Male, 68
Male, 71
Male, 73
Male, 70
Male, 63
Male, 67
Male, 67
Male, 68
Male, 70
Male, 73
Female, 65
Female, 61

You've basically got a bunch of OAP's (or near), mostly men, deciding on a subject like this. It feels to me that you'd need this decided by a more diverse line up of ages and sexes.

Most societies across the world recognise the value of lived experience and accumulated knowledge and wisdom. The role of a judge is to interpret the Law - especially badly drafted laws involving conflicting provisions (with the Equality Act in this case) such as Gender Recognition Act. The age and sex of the Supreme Court members is irrelevant to the issue.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

And the peak level of irony at play here is the fact that JK Rowling has used her own riches to pay for her own gender affirming plastic surgery through the years. If you look at pictures of her from years ago she had exactly the type of facial structure that might attract some suspicious sideways glances in the bogs from her own nasty crowd. Perhaps she should crowdfund plastic surgery for cis women whose appearance offends her.

I know that JK Rowling has had to engage Presidential level security because of the levels of militant truculence from within those that oppose her views, which unquestionably contains a lot of nasty cunts.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

One thing I would comment on the supreme court decision is this...

These are the sexes and ages of the members of the supreme court:

Male, 68
Male, 71
Male, 73
Male, 70
Male, 63
Male, 67
Male, 67
Male, 68
Male, 70
Male, 73
Female, 65
Female, 61

You've basically got a bunch of OAP's (or near), mostly men, deciding on a subject like this. It feels to me that you'd need this decided by a more diverse line up of ages and sexes.

What age do you expect the highest, and by extension the best, level of the judiciary to be?

 

[.db.]

Could you please stop referring to women born as biological women as cis women, I don’t think there’s any need for it on this forum, women/woman will be fine as everyone will be aware when reading the thread what the words women/woman means, thank you.

It’s a made up prefix that’s always been used to diminish the distinction and importance of the female sex; to diminish the distinction of the half of homosapiens who go through menstruation, pregnancy, labour, breast feeding, menopause and the importance of all the other things in life that they solely experience as a sex. Because it makes up that other homosapiens have the right to also be called a women even though they never go through what women do.

It’s a dismissive and inhibiting three letter prefix; tiny in size but massive in its power over women, always used to show an attitude towards women as unworthy of being held in distinction.

 

[hilts]

Ironically, what those women were celebrating was a ruling and a mindset that will barely impact trans women who "pass" but will absolutely invite more judgement and pressue on cis gendered women who are more "masculine" in their appearance. Trans women who look feminine will continue to use the toilets and changing rooms that they wish to unnoticed and unchallenged. Whereas cis women who don't look how these so-called feminists expect them to will now be more worried and face more scrutiny going bout their daily business. There is absolutely nothing liberating or protective about foisting gender essentialist expectations like this onto anybody.

And the peak level of irony at play here is the fact that JK Rowling has used her own riches to pay for her own gender affirming plastic surgery through the years. If you look at pictures of her from years ago she had exactly the type of facial structure that might attract some suspicious sideways glances in the bogs from her own nasty crowd. Perhaps she should crowdfund plastic surgery for cis women whose appearance offends her.

Haha meeeeooooow

I think generally its done to appear younger not more female doh! Cis again really?

The mask always slips eventually when people try to appear balanced and empathetic when they're not.

 

[ZenHalfTimeCrock]

From Julia Ebner’s book Going Mainstream: How Extremists Are Taking Over:

‘The state of transphobia in most liberal Western countries is deeply shocking. Transphobic crimes in the UK have quadrupled since 2015. One in four trans individuals have experienced transphobic physical assault…One can question whether it is a good idea that children can change their gender. And one can debate under what circumstances trans women should be allowed to participate in sports competitions. But when this discourse uses narratives that systematically demonise and dehumanise minority groups, legitimate debate stops and hateful ‘othering’ starts.’

Am just at the beginning of looking into this issue but am nevertheless startled by the confidence with which some people are posting on it. While the court judgement seems logical, I’m not sure that its implications have been thought through.

For me it’s a very complex issue, and as I stated earlier in this thread, I won’t feel properly informed about it until I have read the contrasting views of Shon Faye and Helen Joyce on the subject at a bare minimum.

It's complex because it touches on our core identity. Does our biology define us? Or are we something more than that?’

I’m not opening the door to the supernatural with that comment, merely making the observation that if we are our bodies, maybe we need to revise our use of language and start saying things like ‘I am rumbling my stomach’ or something.

The debate also makes me think about the accusation that is sometimes levelled at sufferers of myalgic encephalomyelitis (and, I would imagine, Long Covid) namely, that they are malingering and that the condition is psychosomatic, a form of mental illness, ‘all in the mind’.

Having experienced post-viral fatigue (the symptoms lasted for seven years on and off but I eventually made a full recovery), it’s fairly easy to guess what I think of that perspective.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

From Julia Ebner’s book Going Mainstream: How Extremists Are Taking Over:

‘The state of transphobia in most liberal Western countries is deeply shocking. Transphobic crimes in the UK have quadrupled since 2015. One in four trans individuals have experienced transphobic physical assault…One can question whether it is a good idea that children can change their gender. And one can debate under what circumstances trans women should be allowed to participate in sports competitions. But when this discourse uses narratives that systematically demonise and dehumanise minority groups, legitimate debate stops and hateful ‘othering’ starts.’

Am just at the beginning of looking into this issue but am nevertheless startled by the confidence with which some people are posting on it. While the court judgement seems logical, I’m not sure that its implications have been thought through.

For me it’s a very complex issue, and as I stated earlier in this thread, I won’t feel properly informed about it until I have read the contrasting views of Shon Faye and Helen Joyce on the subject at a bare minimum.

It's complex because it touches on our core identity. Does our biology define us? Or are we something more than that?’

I’m not opening the door to the supernatural with that comment, merely making the observation that if we are our bodies, maybe we need to revise our use of language and start saying things like ‘I am rumbling my stomach’ or something.

The debate also makes me think about the accusation that is sometimes levelled at sufferers of myalgic encephalomyelitis (and, I would imagine, Long Covid) namely, that they are malingering and that the condition is psychosomatic, a form of mental illness, ‘all in the mind’.

Having experienced post-viral fatigue (the symptoms lasted for seven years on and off but I eventually made a full recovery), it’s fairly easy to guess what I think of that perspective.

Judgment.

 

[The perfect fumble]

So much bile.

American Yin meet American Yang....

We want nothing to do with either of you.

 

[Pedestrian]

What age do you expect the highest, and by extension the best, level of the judiciary to be?

They should retire at 67. Same with any public held position including the lords. I also think the SC should be split equally betwix men and women.

 

[blue is best]

It’s a made up prefix that’s always been used to diminish the distinction and importance of the female sex; to diminish the distinction of the half of homosapiens who go through menstruation, pregnancy, labour, breast feeding, menopause and the importance of all the other things in life that they solely experience as a sex. Because it makes up that other homosapiens have the right to also be called a women even though they never go through what women do.

It’s a dismissive and inhibiting three letter prefix; tiny in size but massive in its power over women, always used to show an attitude towards women as unworthy of being held in distinction.

You summed up perfectly how I feel about that little ‘word’ it’s just a fairly recent made up thing, it was just women/woman for centuries, it makes me angry that I have now, without my knowledge or consent been labelled and put in a box by a minority of people.