The Anti Supporters Club

Tim of the Oak said:
The main battles lost include:
- The deterioration in atmosphere (not 1894’s fault who’ve been flagging a dead horse).
- People leaving games early. (Each to their own).
- The hoarding of season cards that’s stopped younger families getting tickets together. The campaign’s cause celebres (aka points whores, an unfortunate term) include people who’ve moved aboard.
- Excessive match day ticket prices and season card increases. Yes you can say the OSC and others haven’t been critical enough of the Club on this. Fairs do. These issues have been raised on a regular basis when Danny and Roel come to the OSC meeting.

Wins include:
- Free flights to Porto for the Champs League final
- Value gold season cards
- The most successful period in the club’s history on the pitch.
- Vast numbers of City fans are OSC members
- Kun Aguero fighting stewards to help a fan at Bournemouth
- ensuring foreign,, loyal Blues were defended from hate campaigners.
- The Face Value pages who’ve done more for working class fans than anyone else.

There will be more wins and losses and it’s to say who can claim credit and blame for many of these. These TU Blues have been taking credit for the season card freeze and nobody knows who they are. That’s why I’ve mentioned them. I’ve also mentioned when campaigners have been funded by ticket agencies. Kevin Parker gets a lot of criticism for a lot less.

If I was to pickna day when our passion as a fan base hasn’t fully recovered from, it would be the day Mark Hughes got sacked. I know he was considered a rag but he was treated shoddily and I was expecting a protest outside the ground, that never materialised. Some of us veterans of the Swales Out campaign never really recovered from that day.
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April 1st was a month ago Tim
 
M18CTID said:
April 1st was a month ago Tim
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I wasn’t claiming these as wins or losses for the OSC, more for fans generally.

You were happy to like Damo’s post that blamed every negative on the OSC. I’ve no issue with that either. Everyone’s entitled to their views.

I will be participating in Friday’s protest
 
Tim of the Oak said:
I wasn’t claiming these as wins or losses for the OSC, more for fans generally.

You were happy to like Damo’s post that blamed every negative on the OSC. I’ve no issue with that either. Everyone’s entitled to their views.

I will be participating in Friday’s protest
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Tim, I was referring to the highlighted bolded bit about the day Hughes got sacked and how the Swales Outers have never recovered, not the rest of your post!
 
It’s a dangerous game this attributing blame and successes. Who really knows what tipped the balance for any progress made, for example, on season card freezes.

To give an example, I was chatting to Blues who formed the Blue Alliance (if I’ve got the name right) before a game in Romania. They recounted the Aviva Tournament which we won in Dublin.

They recalled that a gang of Irish rags (who might have been supporting Celtic that day) had threatened to beat them up and followed them down a road by the side of the Aviva. The Blues didn’t know but me and r kid had seen what was going on and followed the Irish rags who after a few hundred yards dispersed. We did fuck all but the rags knowing that they might have to take on more big lads might have thought twice. More than likely it was just a coincidence and the rags got bored.

As I said, it’s easy to take credit but the reality is often different.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I can tell you what I'd like to see:
  • If we operate a category pricing model (and we clearly do) then publish that in advance showing the games in each category (say 5 in A, 9 in B and 5 in C) and the prices for each category.
  • Publish a tariff for cup games as well, certainly the early rounds at least. For example, a CL pot 1 opponent will be category A, etc.
  • Review matchday ticket prices and peg those more closely to pro-rata season ticket equivalent prices, so a matchday ticket is never more than 25% higher than the equivalent pro-rata season ticket price.
  • On ticket exchange, repay the ticket holder based on the game category, rather than just 1/19th, so a cat A game returns more than a cat C game (subject to total possible refunds being the same as the season ticket price).
  • If they want to reduce full season ticket numbers over time, down to say 30,000, then be open about that, but also commit to making 50% of season tickets that aren't renewed available to new applicants (and have a proper waiting list).
  • Review Flexi-Gold pricing and make it a genuine alternative to a full season ticket, particularly for people who know they're only going to make 10-12 games per season. Remove the £150 premium and maybe charge people £5 more than the pro-rata season ticket price for a match-day ticket.
  • Then you have the choice of:
    • A full season ticket if you know you're going to attend at least 15 or 16 games.
    • Flexi if you know you're only going to attend half the games.
    • Matchday memebership for those who are only ever going to be occasional attendees.
  • Commit to never increasing prices more than inflation.
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Super reply.
 
jayrea said:
I just can't understand how all of a sudden the unite union has become a mouthpiece for city fans. I just don't get it and don't want those far left wreckers involved.
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They haven't become a "mouthpiece". They're just another group that have been formed in addition to all the other groups and they're certainly not what I would class as far left wreckers. They've got the best interests of City fans at heart and can bring different ideas to the table with regards to how we tackle this issue.

I've never been a member of a Trade Union in my life but I don't see why anyone is so fixated on their name in criticising this particular group because so far their input has been nothing but helpful.
 
M18CTID said:
Tim, I was referring to the highlighted bolded bit about the day Hughes got sacked and how the Swales Outers have never recovered, not the rest of your post!
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Mate, I was expecting being chased by police horses like 20 years and 6 stones earlier. I was probably in a minority of one lol
 
M18CTID said:
Fair enough mate - it's sometimes difficult to get to the bottom of your jokes ;)

That Friday night against Coventry in 1993 was a right laugh. Brian Who?
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It’s been a wonderful life of ups and downs with the mighty Blues. Apologies for the earlier reply.

Hopefully, we will see some progress on match day ticket prices, flexi-gold set up fees lol
 
Tim of the Oak said:
The main battles lost include:
- The deterioration in atmosphere (not 1894’s fault who’ve been flagging a dead horse).
- People leaving games early. (Each to their own).
- The hoarding of season cards that’s stopped younger families getting tickets together. The campaign’s cause celebres (aka points whores, an unfortunate term) include people who’ve moved aboard.
- Excessive match day ticket prices and season card increases. Yes you can say the OSC and others haven’t been critical enough of the Club on this. Fairs do. These issues have been raised on a regular basis when Danny and Roel come to the OSC meeting.

Wins include:
- Free flights to Porto for the Champs League final
- Value gold season cards
- The most successful period in the club’s history on the pitch.
- Vast numbers of City fans are OSC members
- Kun Aguero fighting stewards to help a fan at Bournemouth
- ensuring foreign,, loyal Blues were defended from hate campaigners.
- The Face Value pages who’ve done more for working class fans than anyone else.

There will be more wins and losses and it’s to say who can claim credit and blame for many of these. These TU Blues have been taking credit for the season card freeze and nobody knows who they are. That’s why I’ve mentioned them. I’ve also mentioned when campaigners have been funded by ticket agencies. Kevin Parker gets a lot of criticism for a lot less.

If I was to pickna day when our passion as a fan base hasn’t fully recovered from, it would be the day Mark Hughes got sacked. I know he was considered a rag but he was treated shoddily and I was expecting a protest outside the ground, that never materialised. Some of us veterans of the Swales Out campaign never really recovered from that day.
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With wins/losses, I was specifically talking about ticket pricing and policy from the OSC.

That list of wins though, if that's the best that people can come up with, is shocking in how poor it is. The OSC had nothing to do with signing Kevin De Bruyne. Nor Aguero's reaction to something. Nor face value pages because they shouldn't even need to exist (though they're wonderful, they are a solution to a problem that only exists because of how the club act). Nor how "OSC getting more members" in any way a win. I actually don't even think the plane tickets to Porto was even suggested and instead came from Abu Dhabi right?

Again, I'm not interested in the intragroup politics of City fanbase. It's pointless, irrelevant and extremely Working Mens Labour Club Committee horseshit. Boring fiefdoms for people who have about 0.001% of power and influence as they think they have. I literally don't care if any of you exist, don't exist, merge, split, declare war on each other, setup a phoenix club or a supporters trust, or meet each other at Wrestlemania going 1v1 for the strap, brother. We need an effective, vocal and actually useful fan group who is willing to use the leverage against the club in order to force them to do things that they don't want to do in terms of pricing. Because we've had two decades of the other way and it's left us with this shambles.

So tell me which of you are actively doing that and I'm onboard with them. I don't care if they're called the Manchester City Communists are Great Group or the Manchester City We should Invade Poland Supporters Association. I'm not interested in doing things "perfectly", I'm interested in doing things. A dodgy fangroup (and I absolutely do not believe this is what TUBs are for the record), achieving something is one billion times better than a bunch of top blokes, salt of the Earth I tell ye, massive Blues, loved Franny Lee I did types who do absolutely nothing.
 
M18CTID said:
They haven't become a "mouthpiece". They're just another group that have been formed in addition to all the other groups and they're certainly not what I would class as far left wreckers. They've got the best interests of City fans at heart and can bring different ideas to the table with regards to how we tackle this issue.

I've never been a member of a Trade Union in my life but I don't see why anyone is so fixated on their name in criticising this particular group because so far their input has been nothing but helpful.
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Unions get such a bad rep when in all honesty we wouldn't have weekends without them, maternity leave, equal pay etc... people forget that it was people power who shifted the balance of work from nigh on slavery from a lot of Victorian Mine and mill owners who, left to their own free will, will be happy to simply mop up injured kids from the factory floor and instruct the rest to ''carry on'' (for another 12 hours! How has the right, twisted what's normal - ok you get a few loony unions but in the main they are a source of good for those who wouldn't have a voice...I think people should remember our history. Our ground was built on Bradford Colliery, one of the deepest and most dangerous mines...the fire that killed 13 was just bound to happen ob=ne day, and mine owners were happy to take the risk as the working class were dispensable!
 
Damocles said:
I personally don't give a shit if we're represented by Big Jim and His Gang of Hairy Bikers.

This is what I've tried to explain. The current way and the OSC kid gloves approach DOESN'T WORK. That's not an opinion; it is a verifiable, objective, inarguable, undisputable fact. That needs to be stated over and over and over because it is the singular most important point in this whole debate.

This isn't some new debate they're having. They've been having the same debate for a decade, and they have lost every single battle for over a decade using the exact same approach, the "oh well best not offend anyone", the "we're in constructive dialogue" utter bullshit. They are not and have never been in constructive dialogue. Either they THINK they are, in which case they're incompetent and have been getting played by the club for a decade, or they don't think they are, in which case they're bullshitting the membership and the leadership needs to change.

The OSC and in fact other people on here are so behind the times in football, it's shocking.

This isn't a Committee in the Houses of Parliament. That is a conciliatory process. Several groups all sit down to discuss a Bill with their own ideas and nobody really gets what they want but everybody gets something acceptable to them in the draft. Because the PURPOSE of that is to pass the Bill. Everybody wants the Bill to pass, everybody wants the same thing. So it's about meeting in the middle and compromising.

That is absolutely NOT what football fan advocacy is in this globalist era. This is now an adversarial process. We do not want the same things. They want to maximise revenue at any and all costs. We want to be charged less, have more season tickets and a more sane ticketing policy. These are diametrically opposed goals. There's no meeting in the middle, there's no "everybody gets something", there's a clear winner and a clear loser. And City have won every single fight on this repeatedly because the people talking to them refuse to use any leverage, refuse to make any noises, and submissively get trailed along with vague future promises for years and years and years. They're losing the game because they don't even understand that they're IN the game. They persist with this idea that City are their mates, that they are sat with furrowed brows detailing how they desperately need to raise prices, reluctantly. City are owned by an effective trillionaire. They made £75m profit last year and £80m the year before. They don't give a shit about you, or me, and certainly not gullible fools like Kevin Parker.

So yeah, I don't give a shit about who represents the fans in meetings any more because the ones who have been entrusted to do so for the last decade or two have failed so badly that we're now in a situation whereby our lowest ticket price in GAP is higher than Liverpool's highest ticket price for the last home game. And if they're that incompetent they are effectively serving no purpose. So let someone else do it. Others seem interested in all these politics of "what groups do what". I don't give a fuck. I want cheaper prices and I'll get behind anyone who is doing something different to achieve that because the way it has been done self evidently hasn't worked.
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Bravo. I thought your post from a few weeks back couldn't be topped, you've done it
 
Damocles said:
You see, I don't agree with this Col. It's what I'm talking about. Your idea are sensible ideas. But they're toothless, you're asking the club after sustained process to just be a little more open about how they're fucking us and their future plans for fucking us. I don't accept this now.

Here's what I want:

20% drop in GA ticket prices.
Commitment to maintain season ticket percentage of the ground.

That's it. Nothing complicated. I don't even particularly care about Viagogo and stuff like that, though it doesn't exactly make me happy.

I want City to ONLY makr £50m a year pure unadulterated profit and be affordable than make £75-80m a year and be unaffordable. In fact I'd rather watch City in non-league and be able to go than watch us win CLs on the telly.

You know the numbers yourself, what I propose there has almost no effect on them financially. They are making a specific choice in how they are changing the makeup of the attendees in the ground and I want to nip that shit in the bud before it becomes too late.
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Been saying this for a while now, football clubs don't have football fans best interests at heart at this moment in time and football fans need to fight their clubs not acquiesce to them for small seemingly insignificant concessions.

Support the fans you stand with and not the club you pay until that club starts supporting you.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
It’s a dangerous game this attributing blame and successes. Who really knows what tipped the balance for any progress made, for example, on season card freezes.

To give an example, I was chatting to Blues who formed the Blue Alliance (if I’ve got the name right) before a game in Romania. They recounted the Aviva Tournament which we won in Dublin.

They recalled that a gang of Irish rags (who might have been supporting Celtic that day) had threatened to beat them up and followed them down a road by the side of the Aviva. The Blues didn’t know but me and r kid had seen what was going on and followed the Irish rags who after a few hundred yards dispersed. We did fuck all but the rags knowing that they might have to take on more big lads might have thought twice. More than likely it was just a coincidence and the rags got bored.

As I said, it’s easy to take credit but the reality is often different.
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Objection your honour, relevance

Objection your honour, hearsay

Objection your honour, misdirection

Beats your wheelchair post this one Tim. Floundering on this thread
 
CoventryBlue said:
Objection your honour, relevance

Objection your honour, hearsay

Objection your honour, misdirection

Beats your wheelchair post this one Tim. Floundering on this thread
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Not really. You have acclaimed Damo’s post and the centre piece of that is him claiming many fans and the OSC are unaware that the Directors don’t have our best interests at heart. I’m trying to get someone work in but happy to find the time to respond to comedy gold. Everybody knows the Directors are in it for themselves ffs.
 
Damocles said:
With wins/losses, I was specifically talking about ticket pricing and policy from the OSC.

That list of wins though, if that's the best that people can come up with, is shocking in how poor it is. The OSC had nothing to do with signing Kevin De Bruyne. Nor Aguero's reaction to something. Nor face value pages because they shouldn't even need to exist (though they're wonderful, they are a solution to a problem that only exists because of how the club act). Nor how "OSC getting more members" in any way a win. I actually don't even think the plane tickets to Porto was even suggested and instead came from Abu Dhabi right?

Again, I'm not interested in the intragroup politics of City fanbase. It's pointless, irrelevant and extremely Working Mens Labour Club Committee horseshit. Boring fiefdoms for people who have about 0.001% of power and influence as they think they have. I literally don't care if any of you exist, don't exist, merge, split, declare war on each other, setup a phoenix club or a supporters trust, or meet each other at Wrestlemania going 1v1 for the strap, brother. We need an effective, vocal and actually useful fan group who is willing to use the leverage against the club in order to force them to do things that they don't want to do in terms of pricing. Because we've had two decades of the other way and it's left us with this shambles.

So tell me which of you are actively doing that and I'm onboard with them. I don't care if they're called the Manchester City Communists are Great Group or the Manchester City We should Invade Poland Supporters Association. I'm not interested in doing things "perfectly", I'm interested in doing things. A dodgy fangroup (and I absolutely do not believe this is what TUBs are for the record), achieving something is one billion times better than a bunch of top blokes, salt of the Earth I tell ye, massive Blues, loved Franny Lee I did types who do absolutely nothing.
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Your list struck me as having very little to do with the OSC who you have chosen to blame for anything and anything.

The fact that this thread exists (and hate KP and the rest by all means) removed any doubt that this is an anti supporters club forum.

I don’t mind the give and take although some OSC members have clearly been intimidated in the past, it is a lot better than it used to be. Credit to Ric and the Mods and I would even welcome Squirty back (great family).
 
The OSC should fight for the rights of all supporters and not just their members.

  1. Sending messages out to Branches about trying to secure Flexi Gold season tickets for members is not helpful at this time.
  2. Releasing statements on Twitter actively going against an open letter sent by other supporters is not helpful at this time.
For there to be less anger or frustration towards the OSC, the head of it needs to actively use his voice in favour of ALL supporters. Canvas their opinion and don't just use your own to make noise.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Your list struck me as having very little to do with the OSC who you have chosen to blame for anything and anything.
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I have chosen to blame the primary advocacy group for the supporters of Manchester City, in part, for the exploitation of the fans by the club. I think that's a perfectly reasonable position to take. Their entire role is to ensure against this. They have failed to do it.

Either the Supporters Club is there to protect our interests, by which metric it has spectacularly failed, or it is not there to do that and they need to remove themselves from any advocacy positions such as City Matters and personal meetings with the club.

Either they've failed or they're not doing the job properly. There are no third options.

Tim of the Oak said:
The fact that this thread exists (and hate KP and the rest by all means) removed any doubt that this is an anti supporters club forum.
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This is a free expression forum. People are allowed to voice whatever they wish within the terms of the rules. Listing the organisational failures and calling for the old, tired and extremely well tenured former employee at the head of the leadership is in no way some irrational wailing.

Why the hell anybody would think that a person who has been directly involved with talking to the Club for a quarter of a century, during which time ticket prices have more than doubled, is the man to fight against the club is absolutely baffling to me.

Yes Minister pointed this out about 40 years ago. The longer an advocacy group deals with a department, the more pointless that advocacy group becomes because their primary relationships are now with the department rather than the members.
 
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