It's an issue because with controlled immigration you can allow the people into the country with the skills it needs. Thousands jumping into boats and piling in you can't. Statistics can easily be manipulated and often are.
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The Labour Government
- Thread starter SkyBlueFlux
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It's an issue because with controlled immigration you can allow the people into the country with the skills it needs. Thousands jumping into boats and piling in you can't. Statistics can easily be manipulated and often are.
Oldham Exile
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I'm not really meaning specifically re voting for Reform.Is it?
In my personal experience the discourse happens first which then displays someone is one of those things (ultimately we all are, it’s just people don’t like to admit it nowadays).
Then there’s an emotive debate about it and because it’s the internet, no one will ever change their opinion once they’ve stated one.
I’d love to hear a rational reason for voting for reform that isn’t purely emotive that could then trigger a genuine debate. I’m still yet to hear one though that doesn’t fall down very quickly.
There is a standard PlayBook on here which is to: Close down any discourse by labelling people as thick, racist, fascists, etc
It's an issue because with controlled immigration you can allow the people into the country with the skills it needs. Statistics can easily be manipulated and often are.
Not sure what to say to that. I don't even think Nigel Farage has suggested the stats are drastically wrong for the small boats.
With the amount of focus on small boats, you'd need quite the conspiracy to be hiding much larger numbers.
meltonblue
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I'm not really meaning specifically re voting for Reform.
There is a standard PlayBook on here which is to: Close down any discourse by labelling people as thick, racist, fascists, etc
Ah. Seen both sides of that coin, there’s debate there to be had if you want it still.
Not sure what to say to that. I don't even think Nigel Farage has suggested the stats are drastically wrong for the small boats.
With the amount of focus on small boats, you'd need quite the conspiracy to be hiding much larger numbers.
I believe nothing the media, government or any government run body tells me. They've been proven to use obfuscation on numerous subjects.
My main point is Starmer is just full of hot air. He'll stand on that podium and spout whatever he thinks will make him and his party more popular and keep him in power.
Whether or not Starmer or some speechwriter was deliberately echoing Enoch Powell, "an island of strangers" is sheer bunkum. I thought it echoed rather Farage saying he couldn't hear anyone speaking English on a train. As if any proper Englishman in London would speak to other people on trains...
Strangers are just friends you've not met yet.
And how do you square the desire for immigrants to integrate by speaking better English with making people who've integrated wait twice as long to be a British citizen?
Strangers are just friends you've not met yet.
And how do you square the desire for immigrants to integrate by speaking better English with making people who've integrated wait twice as long to be a British citizen?
The Future’s Blue!
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Have you seen some of the policies they’ve enacted?I believe nothing the media, government or any government run body tells me. They've been proven to use obfuscation on numerous subjects.
My main point is Starmer is just full of hot air. He'll stand on that podium and spout whatever he thinks will make him and his party more popular and keep him in power.
Have you seen some of the policies they’ve enacted?
To make him and them more popular or less?
The Future’s Blue!
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Looks like the majority of their policies are derided by many, especially in the media. WFA, PIP, amongst the many.To make him and them more popular or less?
Looks like the majority of their policies are derided by many, especially in the media. WFA, PIP, amongst the many.
That's correct. I'm not sure why he and the party went down those lines, maybe to prove they were tough on so called benefit scroungers and to appeal to the younger voters, many who seem to have a problem with pensioners getting anything.
It's odd though. There again why did the conservatives make themselves unelectable? Many people had reservations about Starner but the conservatives were so bad that people thought anybody would be better.
It became an island of strangers in the 1980s under Thatcher when it became everyone for themselves.
People on low wages blame immigrants for their plight, the rhetoric around the Brexit vote was "kick out the wage thieves". Even after the disaster of Brexit they still blindly follow someone who says he will make it better for them whilst having next to no policies, and the same cost saving ideas as the Natural Law Party in 1992.
People on low wages blame immigrants for their plight, the rhetoric around the Brexit vote was "kick out the wage thieves". Even after the disaster of Brexit they still blindly follow someone who says he will make it better for them whilst having next to no policies, and the same cost saving ideas as the Natural Law Party in 1992.
Oldham Exile
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HmmmmAh. Seen both sides of that coin, there’s debate there to be had if you want it still.
Have you really?
Ok - I will take your word on that
Personally, I can only remember 'one side' doing the "Close down any discourse by labelling people as thick, racist, fascists, etc" routine
The Future’s Blue!
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The whole point of that election was to get the Tories out. The country was in chaos and everybody was suffering from multiple seismic events that hit the country/world.That's correct. I'm not sure why he and the party went down those lines, maybe to prove they were tough on so called benefit scroungers and to appeal to the younger voters, many who seem to have a problem with pensioners getting anything.
It's odd though. There again why did the conservatives make themselves unelectable? Many people had reservations about Starner but the conservatives were so bad that people thought anybody would be better.
Banking crisis, Brexit, COVID, and wars, to name a few, the Tories had to deal with a lot and they just didn’t have the energy to push out anything credible to vote for, especially after Sunak ceded to Musk and missed historical events.
What I find interesting, and will have to wait and see, is how Starmer’s move from cheap labour can help growth. This plan is contrary to what the experts (who have too much control) have had to say, and should we be moving away from cheap labour, giving those in certain sectors the recognition that they deserve?
The Tories were appalling at dealing with anything, either of their making or not. Then they had large numbers of MPs like the appalling Helen Whately, who in another era would be saying, "Why can't the starving eat cake?" They were in power for fourteen years and left the country in a shambles.
While politicians do the job as some sort of egotistical hobby and a gravy train for themselves things will never really improve for normal everyday people. How many MPs would have to go and get a job in Tesco's or similar if they lost their seat? I'd imagine very few, most are wealthy individuals in their own right or come from affluent families
While politicians do the job as some sort of egotistical hobby and a gravy train for themselves things will never really improve for normal everyday people. How many MPs would have to go and get a job in Tesco's or similar if they lost their seat? I'd imagine very few, most are wealthy individuals in their own right or come from affluent families
I'm not surprised that young people have a problem with pensioners. The young people are paying for the pensions and perks of existing pensioners but with a good chance that they will never enjoy such benefits or even buy a house. And that's without the Brexit vote restricting life choices of young people to go and be part of an island of strangers somewhere else.That's correct. I'm not sure why he and the party went down those lines, maybe to prove they were tough on so called benefit scroungers and to appeal to the younger voters, many who seem to have a problem with pensioners getting anything.
It's odd though. There again why did the conservatives make themselves unelectable? Many people had reservations about Starner but the conservatives were so bad that people thought anybody would be better.
I'm not surprised that young people have a problem with pensioners. The young people are paying for the pensions and perks of existing pensioners but with a good chance that they will never enjoy such benefits or even buy a house. And that's without the Brexit vote restricting life choices of young people to go and be part of an island of strangers somewhere else.
You do know pensioners were young people once who worked, struggled and got mortgages, brought up kids, many working two jobs to do so. They did so conforming to the laws, rules and regulations in place at that time. They paid, tax, national insurance and poll tax/council tax, or the rates as it was called before those. You do also know that if those very pensioners have even a small private pension which they were encouraged, or in some cases forced to contribute to, whether they wanted to or not, they will still be paying tax. I'm talking about a private pension of more than £49.50 a month which will then take them over the meagre tax threshold of £12,570 a year when added to their state pension.
You do also know that not every pensioner voted for Brexit don't you? Do you think none of them have children and grandchildren and wouldn't have voted to leave because of that. Many help out those children and grandchildren and for those who own their own homes and have savings they will very likely leave those to those children and grandchildren.
It's not those who were privileged to actually make it through the minefield of life to pensionable age after grafting for fifty years in many cases, who've fucked this country up for the young. It's politicians.
hilts
Well-Known Member
It's an issue because with controlled immigration you can allow the people into the country with the skills it needs. Thousands jumping into boats and piling in you can't. Statistics can easily be manipulated and often are.
I'm not sure it's ever been controlled properly or more likely politicians say one thing and purposely do another. Then they start losing votes and lo and behold they suddenly claim to see what the concerns were and have them also.
It will be controlled properly said lying politician yesterday, sure sure pal this time you're telling us the truth. Your concerns are our concerns, pmsl.
melrose40yarder
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Super post SirYou do know pensioners were young people once who worked, struggled and got mortgages, brought up kids, many working two jobs to do so. They did so conforming to the laws, rules and regulations in place at that time. They paid, tax, national insurance and poll tax/council tax, or the rates as it was called before those. You do also know that if those very pensioners have even a small private pension which they were encouraged, or in some cases forced to contribute to, whether they wanted to or not, they will still be paying tax. I'm talking about a private pension of more than £49.50 a month which will then take them over the meagre tax threshold of £12,570 a year when added to their state pension.
You do also know that not every pensioner voted for Brexit don't you? Do you think none of them have children and grandchildren and wouldn't have voted to leave because of that. Many help out those children and grandchildren and for those who own their own homes and have savings they will very likely leave those to those children and grandchildren.
It's not those who were privileged to actually make it through the minefield of life to pensionable age after grafting for fifty years in many cases, who've fucked this country up for the young. It's politicians.
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
It's an issue because with controlled immigration you can allow the people into the country with the skills it needs. Thousands jumping into boats and piling in you can't. Statistics can easily be manipulated and often are.
The new immigration proposals will do nothing to reduce the number of asylum seekers ''jumping into boats''
hilts
Well-Known Member
I'm not surprised that young people have a problem with pensioners. The young people are paying for the pensions and perks of existing pensioners but with a good chance that they will never enjoy such benefits or even buy a house. And that's without the Brexit vote restricting life choices of young people to go and be part of an island of strangers somewhere else.
I have never heard a young person who wants to stick it to a pensioner, especially a poor one. What a load of made up bollocks that is.