Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

BlueHammer85 said:
It’s rather sad that he seems to be one of very few high profile celebrities that is showing Israel some condemnation.
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which is why he is taking flak - as always happens the Israel supporters will think they have "won" and forced him out of the BBC but that just free's him up to be more forceful in his condemnation. Not gonna lie I am with him and I hope I live long enough to see Israel, Netanyahu and all those complicit in the West pay for this genocide and the phrase's never again and holocaust will forever be meaningless to me

www.bbc.co.uk

US 'troubled' by humanitarian situation in Gaza, Rubio tells BBC

The secretary of state's comments come as Israeli strikes across Gaza kill 114 people, according to hospitals and rescuers
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
BlueHammer85 said:
It’s rather sad that he seems to be one of very few high profile celebrities that is showing Israel some condemnation.
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Not as sad as you continually blowing smoke up the arse of a government who are actively participating in this crime of crimes and then making a sad face about the lack of celebrity condemnation.

Stick this in your list of achievements


 
Blue Mist said:
I totally disagree with what you have written. The OP quite clearly made a definition between terrorists and the Israeli state.
What I asked was what is Nelson Mandela ? For many many years we in Britain, and the rest of the world were told Mandela was a terrorist. Nelson Mandela ran the equivalent of Hamas. He was imprisoned for his actions.
He was, we were told, a terrorist.
Can someone tell.me the difference between the ANC and Hamas because I can't see any.
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I would have to look at the 'crimes' of Mandela to say whether I think he is a terrorist or not. My definition of a terrorist, and I agree it is not black and white, would be anyone who kills someone without a strategic advantage. So, Manchester bomber, terrorist 100% . Hamas attack on October 7th, terrorist 100%. Israeli attacks since, dependent on whether they were genuinely targetting Hamas or not. If they were targetting Hamas or infrastructure then not terrorist, if they were not targetting Hamas or infrastructure then terrorism 100%, i.e just random bombing for destruction and killings sake. I also think that as well as targetting Hamas you have to bring in some level of morality. i.e if the entire Hamas leadership was held up in a school full of 1000 children then perhaps you do not bomb that day! Again though, it does becomes a grey area. Bombing will never ever be totally accurate and collateral deaths will always occur so you could argue that bombing itself is immoral. Ultimately, if you believe in war then we all have blood on our hands and trying to pretend otherwise is just delusional.
 
Nothing has changed we keep on sending arms to Israel and Netanyahu keeps on killing Palestinians Sky news just had a short film on the destruction

Barclays and HSBC, for example, both hold shares in BAE Systems, Boeing, Rolls Royce and Babcock, which are significantly involved in arming Israel

I want nothing to do with institutions who help to arm Israel, so closed our HSBC bank account it no longer exists unfortunately we have a government that hides while Palestinians die, Israel intensifies its bombardment as the curtain comes down on Trump’s Middle East tour
A lot of people are starving what are we doing about Israel enforcing this barbaric act on the people of Gaza ?
 
Palerider said:
I would have to look at the 'crimes' of Mandela to say whether I think he is a terrorist or not. My definition of a terrorist, and I agree it is not black and white, would be anyone who kills someone without a strategic advantage. So, Manchester bomber, terrorist 100% . Hamas attack on October 7th, terrorist 100%. Israeli attacks since, dependent on whether they were genuinely targetting Hamas or not. If they were targetting Hamas or infrastructure then not terrorist, if they were not targetting Hamas or infrastructure then terrorism 100%, i.e just random bombing for destruction and killings sake. I also think that as well as targetting Hamas you have to bring in some level of morality. i.e if the entire Hamas leadership was held up in a school full of 1000 children then perhaps you do not bomb that day! Again though, it does becomes a grey area. Bombing will never ever be totally accurate and collateral deaths will always occur so you could argue that bombing itself is immoral. Ultimately, if you believe in war then we all have blood on our hands and trying to pretend otherwise is just delusional.
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I'll help you re Mandela. He was the leader of the African National Congress. They carried out murders and bombings.
He was imprisoned because of their actions.

So, the question again, is he a terrorist?
Why are Hamas a terrorist organisation? What have they done that is any different to the ANC ?

I also note you didn't answer the question, is Gerry Adams a terrorist?
 
Blue Mist said:
I'll help you re Mandela. He was the leader of the African National Congress. They carried out murders and bombings.
He was imprisoned because of their actions.

So, the question again, is he a terrorist?
Why are Hamas a terrorist organisation? What have they done that is any different to the ANC ?

I also note you didn't answer the question, is Gerry Adams a terrorist?
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Gerry Adams, indiscriminate bombings, 100 % terrorist. If Mandela did 'indiscriminate' bombings where wholly innocent people were the target then yes, that's 100% a terrorist. IF he did.

If you think Hamas are a force for the good of the Palestinians then God help you. Anyone who supports Hamas are no friend of the Palestinians.
 
Palerider said:
Gerry Adams, indiscriminate bombings, 100 % terrorist. If Mandela did 'indiscriminate' bombings where wholly innocent people were the target then yes, that's 100% a terrorist. IF he did.

If you think Hamas are a force for the good of the Palestinians then God help you. Anyone who supports Hamas are no friend of the Palestinians.
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You are missing my point, perhaps deliberately
Mandela was imprisoned as a terrorist for running an organisation that carried out indiscriminate bombings where innocent people died.
Fast forward 20 years and we are having a concert at Wembley to free him. He was later lauded by world leaders.
Gerry Adams was the leader of the IRA who undertook indiscriminate bombings and murders.
He was elected to the UK parliament and now sits down with world leaders.
I cannot see what Hamas are doing differently to those 2 people.
We are calling Hamas terrorists but Mandela a hero?
Who decides when you are a terrorist and when you are a world leader?
How can you ignore IRA murders but denounce Hamas murders?

My answer is, a terrorist is a terrorist until you realise you have to sit down with him and talk peace. The quicker world leaders sit down with Hamas the better.
 
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anyone supporting Israel look at this and explain why you are in the right - Zionists your views are welcomed. British Jews just watching from afar and thus providing implicit support how do you feel about this? Lets have your views on what the Netanyahu Govt is behaving and how you think this will work out for Israeli's, Zionists and Jews world wide? Starving children to death ffs - seriously I'd love you to make your case

 
Blue Mist said:
You are missing my point, perhaps deliberately
Mandela was imprisoned as a terrorist for running an organisation that carried out indiscriminate bombings where innocent people died.
Fast forward 20 years and we are having a concert at Wembley to free him. He was later lauded by world leaders.
Gerry Adams was the leader of the IRA who undertook indiscriminate bombings and murders.
He was elected to the UK parliament and now sits down with world leaders.
I cannot see what Hamas are doing differently to those 2 people.
We are calling Hamas terrorists but Mandela a hero?
Who decides when you are a terrorist and when you are a world leader?
How can you ignore IRA murders but denounce Hamas murders?

My answer is, a terrorist is a terrorist until you realise you have to sit down with him and talk peace. The quicker world leaders sit down with Hamas the better.
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I'm not missing your point deliberately you just did not state it clearly!

Mandela and Adams both renounced violence as a possible solution to their problems. That meant you could sit down with them, I think the phrase is 'in good faith'. i.e it's not just a simple case of saying do what I want or I will kill ANY of your people. They fully accepted that they need to negotiate a settlement. Most of us accepted that they were changed men and accepted, for the greater good, that those negotiations were necessary.

Hamas and probably Netanyahu simply do not want a negotiated settlement. They want to win, for want of a better phrase, they are sick fuckers. I am 100% with you on the need for both side to negotiate (most people are) and I believe that's what the diplomats have been trying to do for, what seems, ever. The problem, as it as ever been, is getting reasonable people on both sides of the table to negotiate a reasonable solution. I posted a few days ago that when this all blew up there was less than 1 million people in the area, now there are 15million. Any 'winning' side cannot just remove the other side from the area as there is nowhere to go. So I'll repeat again, the only 'sensible' solution is to negotiate but it seems 'sensible' is not a word in the Israel/Palestine dictionary.
 
Palerider said:
I'm not missing your point deliberately you just did not state it clearly!

Mandela and Adams both renounced violence as a possible solution to their problems. That meant you could sit down with them, I think the phrase is 'in good faith'. i.e it's not just a simple case of saying do what I want or I will kill ANY of your people. They fully accepted that they need to negotiate a settlement. Most of us accepted that they were changed men and accepted, for the greater good, that those negotiations were necessary.

Hamas and probably Netanyahu simply do not want a negotiated settlement. They want to win, for want of a better phrase, they are sick fuckers. I am 100% with you on the need for both side to negotiate (most people are) and I believe that's what the diplomats have been trying to do for, what seems, ever. The problem, as it as ever been, is getting reasonable people on both sides of the table to negotiate a reasonable solution. I posted a few days ago that when this all blew up there was less than 1 million people in the area, now there are 15million. Any 'winning' side cannot just remove the other side from the area as there is nowhere to go. So I'll repeat again, the only 'sensible' solution is to negotiate but it seems 'sensible' is not a word in the Israel/Palestine dictionary.
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Netanyahu would lose the extreme members of his majority if he reached a deal with Hamas. As ever, a politician puts his own career above the needs of the people. He is trapped.
 
Palerider said:
It's unbelievable isn't it? All Jews are to blame now. Sadly, we have been here before many, many, times
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All Jews? No-one's said that.

But genocidal Jews like Smotrich are in Netanyahu's government. And here's his view of British Jewry.

“Those who say the way to deal with antisemitism is to hide who and what we are repeat the awful strategy of German Jewry ahead of World War II, who thought if there is antisemitism, let’s be more like the non-Jews and they will forgive and accept us. The opposite is true. The response to antisemitism must be a strong and secure Israel that can justify the Zionist vision and the belonging of Israel to the Land of Israel and the entire Jewish people, and the strong connection of the Diaspora to Israel, instead of trying, yet again, to find favour with the hegemony and renounce anyone because someone thinks they should, due to warped, progressive, almost sick dictates.”

Here's genocidal Smotrich:

m.jpost.com

US: Smotrich's comment about wiping out Huwara is disgusting | The Jerusalem Post

Smotrich clarified that he had not meant his support of the statement to be a call for vigilante justice.
m.jpost.com m.jpost.com

Note the date for those who think this conflict started on October 7th 2023
 
It appears from the optics that Israel don’t want that fabled end of the war in exchange of the hostages.

They’re being offered the return for a permanent ceasefire, which is being rejected as Israel want two stages, presumably so they can continue shelling the fuck out of the remains of Palestine and then move in.
 
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