VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

give it to gordon said:
I don't buy into this VAR got it wrong.

It's impossible to get that wrong. Clear handball, yes. Clearly stopping a goal scoring chance, yes
Laws of the game, straight red card.

See simple.

The only reason not to apply the laws of the game, is it's bent.

Of course we all knew the keeper would play a blinder after the let of, so it change the game.

Perhaps as I fast approach 65yrs old I'm tired of the poor standard of reffing in this country. I just don't see how a ref, a linesman and var can get this wrong. Personally all involved should be sack, their poor performance cost clubs millions, and players a fair chance of winning medals.
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Instead of getting the sack, they gave gillet a game on the sunday, where he again missed 2 sendings off
 
mancboy said:
Instead of getting the sack, they gave gillet a game on the sunday, where he again missed 2 sendings off
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That’s just what PIGMOB do. Baton down the hatches. We got it right no mistake here. Club needs to say something publicly and request the audio i think. A VAR error just decided a major trophy for the first time.
 
bluemcr said:
Not sure if mentioned but I take it Darren Cann was Var assistant ex Palace
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He was also removed by the FA in the past from officiating an FA Cup game between City and Palace due to conflict of interest but deemed acceptable to cover the cup final between us.
 
bondsman said:
But all you ever say is VAR s great.
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go on then, quote me saying VAR is great. I've highlighted many incidences where VAR has been a force for good at times but never once said it is great - all i ever argue is that refs do need some form of tech help as they miss easy decisions all the time, some disagree others agree, it is what it is. scrap VAR for all I care, it won't make anyone any happier.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
go on then, quote me saying VAR is great. I've highlighted many incidences where VAR has been a force for good at times but never once said it is great - all i ever argue is that refs do need some form of tech help as they miss easy decisions all the time, some disagree others agree, it is what it is. scrap VAR for all I care, it won't make anyone any happier.
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Mate you still full of shit now. All you’ve ever done is defend it say it’s good for the game, that’s you endorsing it saying it’s great. Nice deflection as well. HOW did they get it wrong??
 
bondsman said:
Mate you still full of shit now. All you’ve ever done is defend it say it’s good for the game, that’s you endorsing it saying it’s great. Nice deflection as well. HOW did they get it wrong??
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Maybe Darren Cann had a word……

It would be interesting to hear the tape for sure
 
BlueHammer85 said:
go on then, quote me saying VAR is great. I've highlighted many incidences where VAR has been a force for good at times but never once said it is great - all i ever argue is that refs do need some form of tech help as they miss easy decisions all the time, some disagree others agree, it is what it is. scrap VAR for all I care, it won't make anyone any happier.
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Lets have this correct, the problem is NOT VAR, the tech is fine, the tech works fine, the problem is the people that apply the tech, the old saying that a bad worker always blames his tools has never been more apt than in the application of VAR, the tech worked absolutely fine on sat, the cameras caught the offence , showed it from multiple different angles, it was the idiots who were viewing it and unable to apply the laws of the game correctly that are the problem.
 
mancboy said:
Lets have this correct, the problem is NOT VAR, the tech is fine, the tech works fine, the problem is the people that apply the tech, the old saying that a bad worker always blames his tools has never been more apt than in the application of VAR, the tech worked absolutely fine on sat, the cameras caught the offence , showed it from multiple different angles, it was the idiots who were viewing it and unable to apply the laws of the game correctly that are the problem.
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No the problem is VAR because the tech doesn’t make the decision a human still does only now they can manipulate games in a way that was not previously possible. VAR doesn’t work as an idea in that it’s meant to reduce human error. It won’t because it’s still a human making decisions. Goal line tech works because it’s not in anyway a subjective human decision.
 
Stephen230 said:
Thanks for that. I was unaware that a referee can initiate a review. Although I suspect it’s something that very rarely/ never happens.

It also doesn’t alter the fact that initiating a review just puts into motion what we saw on Saturday. It isn’t the referee just bobbing over to the screen to have a look, as so many people would seemingly like to be the protocol.

Although if the referee is admitting he suspects something has happened that he’s completely missed, it might unofficially lower the bar for a VAR intervention. As he’s then effectively judging the incident from scratch, rather than needing to see an obvious error from the referee.
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From IFAB again:

"The referee is the only person who can make the final decision; the VAR has the same status as the other match officials and can only assist the referee"

And

"For subjective decisions, e.g. intensity of a foul challenge, interference at offside, handball considerations, an ‘on-field review’ (OFR) is appropriate.

For factual decisions e.g. position of an offence or player (offside), point of contact (handball/foul), location (inside or outside the penalty area), ball out of play etc. a ‘VAR-only review’ is usually appropriate but an ‘on-field review’ (OFR) can be used for a factual decision if it will help manage the players/match or ‘sell’ the decision (e.g. a crucial match-deciding decision late in the game)"

I am just picking things out of the IFAB protocol here, but to me that protocol says i) the referee can initiate a review, ii) subjective elements (DOGSO or not, for example) should be subject to an on-field review and iii) the referee makes the final decision.

But how all that is interpreted by PGMOL, God only knows. Conveniently for PGMOL, they don't publish their rules and interpretations (I don't think, happy to be corrected).

I suspect their rule that VAR only asks for an on-field review where they think the referee has made a mistake doesn't actually comply with the IFAB protocol. Or maybe it does? Who the fuck knows?
 
mancboy said:
Lets have this correct, the problem is NOT VAR, the tech is fine, the tech works fine, the problem is the people that apply the tech, the old saying that a bad worker always blames his tools has never been more apt than in the application of VAR, the tech worked absolutely fine on sat, the cameras caught the offence , showed it from multiple different angles, it was the idiots who were viewing it and unable to apply the laws of the game correctly that are the problem.
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exactly, VAR can aid a ref that's missed an incident and gives the ref a chance a second look. what's infuriating is when officials still come to the wrong decision despite it being clear on replay, what can I do about that?
I do still however 'endorse' VAR because I know without tech help then we get MORE farcical decisions, I don't want to see offside goals being allowed to stand, I don't want clear dives with zero contact all the time trying to dupe the ref and often does so etc. - Yes, despite VAR there is some rare examples, but all i really argue is for a ref to have a second look on something he has missed and that can only happen with VAR.
 
Len Rum said:
Just seen a still of the lino's position relative to the incident.
He's not in line with play. If he had been then he has a much clearer view of the incident and surely flags for an offence.
This in turn would IMO would have forced a decision and review by the ref.
In these changed circumstances the ref might have issued a red card on the spot which VAR would presumably not have overturned as the decision was not a clear and obvious error.
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Yep. The linesman wasn't in a position to see the offence. I don't know why. He has one job, to be in line with the last defender.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Yep. The linesman wasn't in a position to see the offence. I don't know why. He has one job, to be in line with the last defender.
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lino didn't also see Palace offside goal and that would have been awarded a goal without VAR, its not corruption its perhaps just a very tough ask however simple it looks on TV - officials getting basic wrong decisions has happened for decades, we either carry on accepting that and scrap VAR which is fine or we don't and look at ways so officials can get the vast majority of these basic decisions correct.
 
bondsman said:
No the problem is VAR because the tech doesn’t make the decision a human still does only now they can manipulate games in a way that was not previously possible. VAR doesn’t work as an idea in that it’s meant to reduce human error. It won’t because it’s still a human making decisions. Goal line tech works because it’s not in anyway a subjective human decision.
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Which is literally exactly what i said , the technology is not the problem, the technology works absolutely correctly, the idiots using the technology dont work correctly and that is the issue, it is called video ASSISTED ref and with the best will in the will you can give a complete moron all the assistance in the world and they will still be a complete moron, all VAR is doing is showing us in minute detail why they are either morons or bent or both.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Yep. The linesman wasn't in a position to see the offence. I don't know why. He has one job, to be in line with the last defender.
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I would say the lino is in a good position but did he think Haaland nicked the ball past Henderson first? What I don't understand is neither Marmoush nor Haaland appealed at the time for handball. Had they had done so it may have swayed the ref / liner. Ref had no chance of seeing it, he was probably 25 yards behind play. And Haaland was also nudged in the back just before he tried to toe the ball away. I wonder what happened if he had gone over?

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BlueHammer85 said:
lino didn't also see Palace offside goal and that would have been awarded a goal without VAR, its not corruption its perhaps just a very tough ask however simple it looks on TV - officials getting basic wrong decisions has happened for decades, we either carry on accepting that and scrap VAR which is fine or we don't and look at ways so officials can get the vast majority of these basic decisions correct.
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See therein lies the problem with your defence, they dont get the vast majority of basic decisions correct and even with the assistance of video they still get the most basic of decisions wrong, not even subjective decisions just inability to apply the most basic laws of the game. What VAR has done has made officials lazy and incompetent as they think that the video will bail them out so its made poor officials even worse and the biggest problem with PGMOL is their inability to sanction poor performance from refs, everyone knows gillet made a mistake in that game and what is PGMOLS response to give him another game the next day in which he made another two cock ups and then if anybody says anything then they are sanctioned by the FA and the ref just gets to slink away and get another game without justifying the reasons why they gave an incorrect decision, that ideology may have worked when refs were volunteers but now with the invention of professional refs who are getting paid a good salary to do a job, not implying the laws of the game should result in sanction.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
exactly, VAR can aid a ref that's missed an incident and gives the ref a chance a second look. what's infuriating is when officials still come to the wrong decision despite it being clear on replay, what can I do about that?
I do still however 'endorse' VAR because I know without tech help then we get MORE farcical decisions, I don't want to see offside goals being allowed to stand, I don't want clear dives with zero contact all the time trying to dupe the ref and often does so etc. - Yes, despite VAR there is some rare examples, but all i really argue is for a ref to have a second look on something he has missed and that can only happen with VAR.
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Do you want goals disallowed for toenails being offside? Do you want penalties where there is the slightest contact, initiated maybe, and the player decides to fall over? Do you want rules so complicated that no-one watching has a feeling any more for how decisions are made?

There were problems before, there are problems now. There will always be problems.

The only question is whether the game is benefitted more, or the football experience is harmed more, by having VAR. We can disagree on that, I suppose.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
The same linesman officials that missed the handball? You have faith without VAR that linesman’s will flag offsides correctly ? If you say so be it, then you would have no complaints with that goal being allowed to stand.
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An official getting it wrong can be 'taken on the chin'. VAR get it wrong and it is very, very annoying.
 
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