Tino Livramento

[King Jay]

Walker was very good on the defensive side but a liability on the offensive side. Livramento offers good quality of both worlds.
Purely on the attack side you would say that TAA is the best right back the Premier League has ever seen.
Livramento will be more complete than both. Not as good offensively as TAA and not as good defensively as Walker but will do good.

 

[BluestBlue]

My point is that he would be a lot cheaper and is a better player at this point….Ok let’s pay £80m for Tino and then start crying on the next thread about ticket prices..

I agree. But until serious outgoings happen like grealish Bernardo Gundo Kova stones the GKs etc we are at max capacity, there’s nothing we can do and if reports like Bernardo staying are true then you really have to forget getting a single non HG player doesn’t matter how much you and I like them. Rules are rules. It’s 80 m. It’s not ours. We got 3 superstars for 116 m. Take the good with the bad

 

[BluestBlue]

Walker was very good on the defensive side but a liability on the offensive side. Livramento offers good quality of both worlds.
Purely on the attack side you would say that TAA is the best right back the Premier League has ever seen.
Livramento will be more complete than both. Not as good offensively as TAA and not as good defensively as Walker but will do good.

I agree but even Newcastle fans say he still leaves a lot to be desired on the attacking side sometimes and just being like really solid on the ball. He’s great off the ball tho.

 

[BluestBlue]

Are we after an attacking right full back though?

Livramento is as close as a HG clone you are going to get for Walker currently, quick and can run all day.

I would think that Ait-Nouri is going to be the one bombing forward and the right back will be looking to help shut the counter attacks down.

But don’t we need attacking fullbacks cuz we not playing with proper wingers anymore. We’re playing Foden/marmoush as inside forwards. They need overlapping FBs that will stretch the pitch. Then link up with Cherki Reinjders in the middle. We’ve relied too heavily on our LHS Gvardiol Doku etc our RHS has been non existent since Mahrez left. It makes us predictable and easy to suffocate. Remember prime pool with their FBs or when we played Mendy x Walker with Aguero x Jesus you remember how amazing that was to watch. It didn’t last long but still. Plus I think Pep is fed up with the wingers and is creating a system that doesn’t rely on them anymore.

 

[Nicholas van Whatsisface]

I think the point of the comparisons are obvious..

1. Is to start with a WC player, Hakimi, that gives you a baseline of what World Class should look like ( and what 80 million should potentially be pointing at)... And ate there indices in Livramento's stats suggesting potential WC. Or is je just the new Wan Bissaka.

2. Aina: gives you a comparison to another homegrown fullback ( which is one of the big off field advantages of Livramento). And whether in the short-term Aina can provide what Livra will while we wait on a future RB that doesn't come at the price of a striker.

3, is a comparison to what we already have in house in Nunes. What that comparison seems to be suggesting is that Livramento may not be good value for money. As Nunes presently does most things as well or better yhan Livra does. Granted, braindead errors wasnt a

There will be another 21-22 year old fullback in a year or 2. Perhaps a stopgap in Aina is the better value for money ( if we are interested in a HG RB).... Especially, if its quite possible the future emerging Fullback may very well already be in house....


Rico Lewis!!!!!

That’s precisely my point - they’re obvious.

It doesn’t tell us anything we don’t already know.

We’re not looking at Livramento because he’s better right now than any of the players on this list.

I’m not sure anyone is claiming that.

His value isn’t based on his quality now - but an evaluation of his potential, and the fact he’s homegrown, which adds a premium.

The comparison to Nunus is interesting, as I said, but considering the stated point is to demonstrate the fee isn’t justified - for me, comparing him to a non-homegrown player who would be more expensive than him anyway, and a player seven years older than him doesn’t show that.

It just shows he isn’t as good as Hakimi or Aina right now.

 

[johnny crossan]

....Purely on the attack side you would say that TAA is the best right back the Premier League has ever seen....

It's very testing to read this sort thing when you wake up.

 

[Xhavenjoe]

It's very testing to read this sort thing when you wake up.

Try reading it before you go to bed.
Guaranteed to give you a sleepless night.

 

[richards30]

Walker was very good on the defensive side but a liability on the offensive side. Livramento offers good quality of both worlds.
Purely on the attack side you would say that TAA is the best right back the Premier League has ever seen.
Livramento will be more complete than both. Not as good offensively as TAA and not as good defensively as Walker but will do good.

@mods surely a ban for the TAA comment alone?

 

[blueparrot]

But don’t we need attacking fullbacks cuz we not playing with proper wingers anymore. We’re playing Foden/marmoush as inside forwards. They need overlapping FBs that will stretch the pitch. Then link up with Cherki Reinjders in the middle. We’ve relied too heavily on our LHS Gvardiol Doku etc our RHS has been non existent since Mahrez left. It makes us predictable and easy to suffocate. Remember prime pool with their FBs or when we played Mendy x Walker with Aguero x Jesus you remember how amazing that was to watch. It didn’t last long but still. Plus I think Pep is fed up with the wingers and is creating a system that doesn’t rely on them anymore.

When we played Mendy Walker, one ,usually Walker played inverted, they didn’t both bomb on, to allow us to play with Silva and KDB attacking and just Fern as a 6. Livrsmento can do that with Reijnders and Cherki further up. Probably better than Walker could because he has more game intelligence than Walker.

 

[supercity88]

We've never played with two full backs overlapping and getting crosses into the box. I don't believe Pep will start doing it now. I don't think we will outlay such significant money on a full back. It's pointless. Apologies to anyone who plays that position, but Pep has shown by using midfielders/CBs there that it's not a position on the team you need to invest big money on.

Walker was a lot of money, but his role was essentially to cover us on the counter with his pace. Nunes has a lot of pace. Ait-Nouri is pretty quick too, so you could always use the LB as the covering defender.

If we're worried about having homegrown players, we'd be much better buying Gibbs-White who could flop in midfield and play at RB instead!

 

[King Jay]

I agree but even Newcastle fans say he still leaves a lot to be desired on the attacking side sometimes and just being like really solid on the ball. He’s great off the ball tho.
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I do think it’s more potential than his current quality. There is still upside. I mean if the defensive skills are already there then he can still develop an offensive threat + HG. Also if we keep Nunes instead of Akanji as an example.. we should have our pure offensive threat.

 

[bell_mcfc]

Cambiasso was a left back link. People just hypothesized he could play on either side.

Somehow, that 'he can play on either side' became he is the RB option.

I think if he came in Jan would have helped at RB as well we’re struggling with Nunes/Lewis there and wanted CL football. He would have then moved to LB as we needed one. So a great signing based of that.

But we didn’t, Nunes got better at RB, we qualified for CL and signed Ait-Nouri which is a better piece of business.

But I’m just comparing the price of a full back. Whether a LB or RB they wanted 70m for Cambiaso and that’s a good comparison point for the Livramento figure. Those that say 70 was higher because of January, well Livramento will be higher because of homegrown. They are quite comparable transfers in my opinion and I know who I’d rather have based on talent alone.

Livramento.

 

[Craig]

Peak Kyle was loads better IMO than current Livramento and for me peak Kyle wasn’t worth £80m in today’s market because of his limitations, such as lack of assists. And if £80m doesn’t guarantee you anything don’t spend it, which I doubt we will. £50m top price limit for TL for me.

Loads better at what? Defending the counter? Not a prayer Walker was ever as good a natural footballer as Livramento now at 22, never mind how good he should become. This lad will fit into our last weak area perfectly. If we’ve got the money to buy him then hopefully we get it done.

 

[Craig]

My point is that he would be a lot cheaper and is a better player at this point….Ok let’s pay £80m for Tino and then start crying on the next thread about ticket prices..

That’s like saying people are poor in this country so why give to foreign aid! I’m sure our 20 quids make or break these type of deals!

If we spent £80m on some young midfielder nobody would bat an eyelid. We’ve not though . We’ve got midfielders for really good fees. Our last week spot is right back. So if we have to spend more on the best young one in the league who could sort out a problem position for the next 10 years. Then who gives a fuck really?

 

[CΛL]

I do think it’s more potential than his current quality. There is still upside. I mean if the defensive skills are already there then he can still develop an offensive threat + HG. Also if we keep Nunes instead of Akanji as an example.. we should have our pure offensive threat.

Did Walker develop an offensive threat?

 

[King Jay]

Did Walker develop an offensive threat?

He was never as good with ball as Livramento. The technical skills were never there

 

[Cobwebcat]

Despite what we might want to happen I just can’t see city offering over 60 for this kid. Look at deals we have done so far…we won’t overpay whatever the circumstances imho.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I agree but even Newcastle fans say he still leaves a lot to be desired on the attacking side sometimes and just being like really solid on the ball. He’s great off the ball tho.
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To be fair he’s only a young lad. We surely wouldn’t expect him to be the finished article. It’s his potential that’s so appealing.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Loads better at what? Defending the counter? Not a prayer Walker was ever as good a natural footballer as Livramento now at 22, never mind how good he should become. This lad will fit into our last weak area perfectly. If we’ve got the money to buy him then hopefully we get it done.

Also helps Livramento can play right or left-back with ease

 

[Dax777]

I think if he came in Jan would have helped at RB as well we’re struggling with Nunes/Lewis there and wanted CL football. He would have then moved to LB as we needed one. So a great signing based of that.

But we didn’t, Nunes got better at RB, we qualified for CL and signed Ait-Nouri which is a better piece of business.

But I’m just comparing the price of a full back. Whether a LB or RB they wanted 70m for Cambiaso and that’s a good comparison point for the Livramento figure. Those that say 70 was higher because of January, well Livramento will be higher because of homegrown. They are quite comparable transfers in my opinion and I know who I’d rather have based on talent alone.

Livramento.

Yes, 70 was high because of January and a lack of options. Note, we signed ( in my opinion a far better left back) for less than half the Cambiasso asking price.

In reality, price is often a function of leverage. I think Ait Nouri is a better player than Livramento. Both now and in the long-term. Yet he will cost less than half because of factors other than football. That to me is how bad deals occur.

There will be another Livramento or better in the next 2 years with better conditions. I.e. equally young, HG, has as high of a ceiling, not playing for a CL club who would rather not sell, and not unde a long contract .

When we have all the right conditions, then we strike. Folks can use the following as hind-sight vision:

Would you rather have paid 105 million for Kane or did you prefer waiting a year to get Haaland at 51 million.

Would you rather have paid 68 million for Cucurrella or was it worth waiting 2 years to get Air Nouri at a fair price?

Again, i'd repeat, even though many object, full backs just isn't as valuable of a position to be expending significant resource on. Especially if said player isn't even the finished article yet. Just a developing talent.

Hakimi, Mendez ( i.e. finished products at World Class consistency at 70 mil might make sense) but a potential? No.

You pay that for potential at Striker or attacking midfield. Not at fullback.

That to me is good money chasing bad value.