Grooming gang scandal

oldius said:
I speak for myself here that what I despise are paedophiles and groomers. I want all to be brought to justice. I could not care less the race or religion of someone who exploits vulnerable children for sex. That some seem to attach particular venom to Muslim paedophiles is what I consider racist, and it pollutes our politics and our media.
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Surely you care if someone's race or religion prevents the authorities from protecting kids though?
 
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hilts said:
Surely you care I'd someone's race or religion prevents the authorities from protecting kids though?
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Of course. Race and religion should not be factors.

What we have now though are leaders seeking to make political capital from insinuation and conjecture that can often derail the wheels of justice. As examples, I give you Southport and the Liverpool winner's parade. The former saw politicians trying to describe the murderer as a recent asylum seeking Muslim - neither was true. The latter saw hurried efforts on social media to indicate a terrorist incident committed by a Muslim - also not true. Then, when the driver was proven to be a white, ex-marine, people began to suggest PTSD and mental-health issues. Had he been brown, I am certain his motive would have been pre-determined as terror. One can imagine the subliminal impact on any jury.

If people are genuinely interested in justice, and not religious and ethnic scapegoating, only the crime is viewed in the context of the evidence.

Unfortunately, in the case of the Rochdale and Rotherham groomers, justice was also, seemingly, obscured by racial and religious factors. This is EXACTLY why racism is so poisonous when it comes to justice - it ignores facts; it attributes suspicion; it ignores evidence; it creates anger; and it creates fear in the eyes of investigators where they should only be concerned with evidence and conviction.

In addition, racism in foreign policy creates the conditions in which terrorism thrives, which feeds in to more racism. We are in the midst of horror, IMO.
 
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Polly Toynbee’s opinion piece in the Guardian today deserves a special mention.

If anyone hasn’t the time today to read the full report from Baroness Casey, then I think Toynbee’s piece (although poorly written) offers up a concise example of the sort of denial and wilful ignorance that has allowed the abuse to continue for as long as it has, and for the abusers to often escape justice.

Her overriding message, and I kid you not, is that ‘culture warriors must be ignored’. Now who said irony was dead?
 
oldius said:
Of course. Race and religion should not be factors.

What we have now though are leaders seeking to make political capital from insinuation and conjecture that can often derail the wheels of justice. As examples, I give you Southport and the Liverpool winner's parade. The former saw politicians trying to describe the murderer as a recent asylum seeking Muslim - neither was true. The latter saw hurried efforts on social media to indicate a terrorist incident committed by a Muslim - also not true. Then, when the driver was proven to be a white, ex-marine, people began to suggest PTSD and mental-health issues. Had he been brown, I am certain his motive would have been pre-determined as terror. One can imagine the subliminal impact on any jury.

If people are genuinely interested in justice, and not religious and ethnic scapegoating, only the crime is viewed in the context of the evidence.

Unfortunately, in the case of the Rochdale and Rotherham groomers, justice was also, seemingly, obscured by racial and religious factors. This is EXACTLY why racism is so poisonous when it comes to justice - it ignores facts; it attributes suspicion; it ignores evidence; it creates anger; and it creates fear in the eyes of investigators where they should only be concerned with evidence and conviction.

In addition, racism in foreign policy creates the conditions in which terrorism thrives, which feeds in to more racism. We are in the midst of horror, IMO.
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Yeah I don't need a lesson on the evils of racism ta very much, let me ask you this question what year was the Rochdale grooming scandal? , when do we think the first reported incident was? It is now 2025. I'm sorry but I'm not very fucking confident in letting the authorities do their job. How many fuck ups, corruption and incompetence do people need to go through, how many lessons learnt shite do they have to stomach.
I would rather have people using it for political gain if it leads to action and saves one girl from getting raped rather than it getting swept under the carpet.
As usual in this place peoples first instinct is to defend their lot, second is to deflect away from them doing just that when they end up with egg on their faces.
But but what about Catholic priests, white people are in grooming gangs too. Pmsl. No shit sherlocks.

One of reasons this originally was such a story was because there was suggestions that the authorities didn't act quick enough or at all because of the religion and/or the race of the perpetrators . Once that becomes a concern or needs looking at, however tricky it gets, so it doesn't happen again how the fuck do you take race and religion out if it.

Some on here don't like that, I think rather than posting deflective shite on here that a kid wouldn't fall for they should use their skills where it would be appreciated.

Rochdale Council.or the police force. Fit right in so they will.
 
Brewster's millions said:
Polly Toynbee’s opinion piece in the Guardian today deserves a special mention.

If anyone hasn’t the time today to read the full report from Baroness Casey, then I think Toynbee’s piece (although poorly written) offers up a concise example of the sort of denial and wilful ignorance that has allowed the abuse to continue for as long as it has, and for the abusers to often escape justice.

Her overriding message, and I kid you not, is that ‘culture warriors must be ignored’. Now who said irony was dead?
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Have a look at some earlier posts on this thread and the Labour Party thread from around 13th January when this one wasn’t open.Then look at some of the stuff posted over the last couple of days .
That same level of shamelessness on plain view.
 
oldius said:
Of course. Race and religion should not be factors.

What we have now though are leaders seeking to make political capital from insinuation and conjecture that can often derail the wheels of justice. As examples, I give you Southport and the Liverpool winner's parade. The former saw politicians trying to describe the murderer as a recent asylum seeking Muslim - neither was true. The latter saw hurried efforts on social media to indicate a terrorist incident committed by a Muslim - also not true. Then, when the driver was proven to be a white, ex-marine, people began to suggest PTSD and mental-health issues. Had he been brown, I am certain his motive would have been pre-determined as terror. One can imagine the subliminal impact on any jury.

If people are genuinely interested in justice, and not religious and ethnic scapegoating, only the crime is viewed in the context of the evidence.

Unfortunately, in the case of the Rochdale and Rotherham groomers, justice was also, seemingly, obscured by racial and religious factors. This is EXACTLY why racism is so poisonous when it comes to justice - it ignores facts; it attributes suspicion; it ignores evidence; it creates anger; and it creates fear in the eyes of investigators where they should only be concerned with evidence and conviction.

In addition, racism in foreign policy creates the conditions in which terrorism thrives, which feeds in to more racism. We are in the midst of horror, IMO.
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Brilliant post. Take a bow.
 
hilts said:
Yeah I don't need a lesson on the evils of racism ta very much, let me ask you this question what year was the Rochdale grooming scandal? , when do we think the first reported incident was? It is now 2025. I'm sorry but I'm not very fucking confident in letting the authorities do their job. How many fuck ups, corruption and incompetence do people need to go through, how many lessons learnt shite do they have to stomach.
I would rather have people using it for political gain if it leads to action and saves one girl from getting raped rather than it getting swept under the carpet.
As usual in this place peoples first instinct is to defend their lot, second is to deflect away from them doing just that when they end up with egg on their faces.
But but what about Catholic priests, white people are in grooming gangs too. Pmsl. No shit sherlocks.

One of reasons this originally was such a story was because there was suggestions that the authorities didn't act quick enough or at all because of the religion and/or the race of the perpetrators . Once that becomes a concern or needs looking at, however tricky it gets, so it doesn't happen again how the fuck do you take race and religion out if it.

Some on here don't like that, I think rather than posting deflective shite on here that a kid wouldn't fall for they should use their skills where it would be appreciated.

Rochdale Council.or the police force. Fit right in so they will.
Click to expand...

hilts said:
Yeah I don't need a lesson on the evils of racism ta very much, let me ask you this question what year was the Rochdale grooming scandal? , when do we think the first reported incident was? It is now 2025. I'm sorry but I'm not very fucking confident in letting the authorities do their job. How many fuck ups, corruption and incompetence do people need to go through, how many lessons learnt shite do they have to stomach.
I would rather have people using it for political gain if it leads to action and saves one girl from getting raped rather than it getting swept under the carpet.
As usual in this place peoples first instinct is to defend their lot, second is to deflect away from them doing just that when they end up with egg on their faces.
But but what about Catholic priests, white people are in grooming gangs too. Pmsl. No shit sherlocks.

One of reasons this originally was such a story was because there was suggestions that the authorities didn't act quick enough or at all because of the religion and/or the race of the perpetrators . Once that becomes a concern or needs looking at, however tricky it gets, so it doesn't happen again how the fuck do you take race and religion out if it.

Some on here don't like that, I think rather than posting deflective shite on here that a kid wouldn't fall for they should use their skills where it would be appreciated.

Rochdale Council.or the police force. Fit right in so they will.
Click to expand...
How the fuck do you take race and religion out of it? You look at the victims, you listen to what they say, you build a case, you seek to charge based on the evidence, you prosecute and you sentence, and none of it dependent on race or religion. It is not tricky if race and religion are NOT considerations. If you would rather have people using racism for political gain then you run the risk of white paedophiles getting away with things because you are desperate to convict non-whites and then we end up with examples like that recent, harrowing, Scottish case being ignored and prolonged with more and more victims molested.
 
oldius said:
How the fuck do you take race and religion out of it? You look at the victims, you listen to what they say, you build a case, you seek to charge based on the evidence, you prosecute and you sentence, and none of it dependent on race or religion. It is not tricky if race and religion are NOT considerations. If you would rather have people using racism for political gain then you run the risk of white paedophiles getting away with things because you are desperate to convict non-whites.
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Read the post again s l o w l y, v e r y s l o w l y

If a claim about the abuse not being handled properly due to fear of race/religion is brought up and an inquiry is asked for how do you take race/religion out of that part of the inquiry ?

I'm aware of how it should have been handled, I don't think we are needing an inquiry because it was done correctly.

Fuck me this place:-)
 
oldius said:
I speak for myself here that what I despise are paedophiles and groomers. I want all to be brought to justice. I could not care less the race or religion of someone who exploits vulnerable children for sex. That some seem to attach particular venom to Muslim paedophiles is what I consider racist, and it pollutes our politics and our media.
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I get what you’re saying and of course all rapists should be locked regardless of race.

However in this case race and ethnicity played a massive part in why it happened. You can’t ignore it. A lot of the girls were being targeted because they are white, most of the perpetrators are from Pakistani backgrounds as well - that also played a big part in why the authorities did nothing.

Race/ background has played a huge part in this. The stats and clear evidence around that might actually prevent this from happening further. Ignoring it made it worse
 
hilts said:
Read the post again s l o w l y, v e r y s l o w l y

If a claim about the abuse not being handled properly due to fear of race/religion is brought up and an inquiry is asked for how do you take race/religion out of that part of the inquiry ?

I'm aware of how it should have been handled, I don't think we are needing an inquiry because it was done correctly.

Fuck me this place:-)
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Your condescension seems to be woefully misplaced here.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
I get what you’re saying and of course all rapists should be locked regardless of race.

However in this case race and ethnicity played a massive part in why it happened. You can’t ignore it. A lot of the girls were being targeted because they are white, most of the perpetrators are from Pakistani backgrounds as well - that also played a big part in why the authorities did nothing.

Race/ background has played a huge part in this. The stats and clear evidence around that might actually prevent this from happening further. Ignoring it made it worse
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For @hilts and in response to your point. This is from my earlier post today.

Unfortunately, in the case of the Rochdale and Rotherham groomers, justice was also, seemingly, obscured by racial and religious factors. This is EXACTLY why racism is so poisonous when it comes to justice - it ignores facts; it attributes suspicion; it ignores evidence; it creates anger; and it creates fear in the eyes of investigators where they should only be concerned with evidence and conviction.


I worked in Rochdale and saw vulnerable women out on the street. Many of the businesses open late were Asian owned. In nearly all of the cases I saw, the women out alone were white. This was twenty years ago and I didn't really think too much of it. Of course, as I am older I realise that these women, and girls, were easy prey. That is just a fact. If this inquiry throws up procedural failings because of religion and race then that should be identified. My point is really clear that race and religion should NEVER be a barrier to the investigation and conviction of paedophiles.
 
stonerblue said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Church of England admits failure over 'sadistic' abuse of sisters

Three sisters say they were abused in night-time rituals at a church by their father and others.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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The difference is ..
You show me that and I say that the perpertrators should all be locked up and so should that enabling **** Justin Welby. That will be my first thought
I show you a Pakistani grooming gang , you will say ' what about the white grooming gangs, the church " whatever.That will be your first thought . As you have demonstrated previously.

As we both know you are not slow imply a bit of racism or bigotry.

You have previously said that there has been no cover up on Pakistani grooming gangs.

Is that still your opinion ?
 
Hertzblue said:
The difference is ..
You show me that and I say that the perpertrators should all be locked up and so should that enabling **** Justin Welby. That will be my first thought
I show you a Pakistani grooming gang , you will say ' what about the white grooming gangs, the church " whatever.That will be your first thought . As you have demonstrated previously.

As we both know you are not slow imply a bit of racism or bigotry.

You have previously said that there has been no cover up on Pakistani grooming gangs.

Is that still your opinion ?
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The point is...if you're so concerned about grooming gangs, then you should include ALL..no matter what race and religion. The recent outrage is aimed at one group of people only.
Don't twist it, mate...it's just dishonest.
 
Marklr said:
The point is...if you're so concerned about grooming gangs, then you should include ALL..no matter what race and religion. The recent outrage is aimed at one group of people only.
Don't twist it, mate...it's just dishonest.
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The Jay report did look at all grooming gangs and did its best to downplay the role of ethnicity - that is where the dishonesty lies and why we now need another enquiry .
 
oldius said:
For @hilts and in response to your point. This is from my earlier post today.

Unfortunately, in the case of the Rochdale and Rotherham groomers, justice was also, seemingly, obscured by racial and religious factors. This is EXACTLY why racism is so poisonous when it comes to justice - it ignores facts; it attributes suspicion; it ignores evidence; it creates anger; and it creates fear in the eyes of investigators where they should only be concerned with evidence and conviction.


I worked in Rochdale and saw vulnerable women out on the street. Many of the businesses open late were Asian owned. In nearly all of the cases I saw, the women out alone were white. This was twenty years ago and I didn't really think too much of it. Of course, as I am older I realise that these women, and girls, were easy prey. That is just a fact. If this inquiry throws up procedural failings because of religion and race then that should be identified. My point is really clear that race and religion should NEVER be a barrier to the investigation and conviction of paedophiles.
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Glad you agree that the inquiry should look into it if it was a problem no matter who brought it up. The deflection from some has frankly been incredibly sad.

Shame it seems to be taking an eternity it's almost like those that had the authority and a duty of care to the girls have something to hide.

Hillsborough
Stephen Lawrence
Grenfell
Windrush
Infected blood
Post office
Covid


Too many scandals to remember, we need whistle blowers, we need journalists, we need decent politicians, we also sometimes need bad faith actors using it for their own gain. Whatever keeps it in the public eye coz even the most obvious miscarriage takes for fucking ever to rectify if ever.

People have lost whats most important about this case.
 
Hertzblue said:
The Jay report did look at all grooming gangs and did its best to downplay the role of ethnicity - that is where the dishonesty lies and why we now need another enquiry .
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Another inquiry is just to please the raging racists. It's all hot air. They insist on another inquiry but they don't really want it. They just want to justify their hatred.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Baroness Casey currently on newsnight. She’s just highlighted an investigation into Rotherham council and police, where in files of rape victims the ethnicity of the rapists was tip exed out. What the actual fck!

South Yorkshire police in particular are corrupt as anything in so many different areas.
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I offer Howard Webb as evidence.
 
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