Grooming gang scandal

[oldius]

Hi Melton
In principal you are of course correct but in this case I make no apology for " having a go at the other side"
The crux of the matter and why we have a " scandal" is nothing to do with the colour or ethnicity of the perpetrators.
It is not a 'scandal" that some of the perpetrators or a lot of the perpetrators were Pakistani or Muslim or whatever grouping you choose.
The "scandal" is that the law was not applied evenly to perpetrators of certain ethnicities for fear of arising racial / community tension and that the victims were denied the protection of the state for the same reason.
Essentially the lives of young vulnerable girls, many under the age of consent , children as Baroness Casey points out were sacrificed for the sake of the reputation of multi -culturalism.
Baroness Casey has confirmed what was already well known, that a major factor behind this was the fear of being branded Racist.
Who calls people racist for pointing out that a good many incidences of grooming crimes appear to emanate from the Pakistani community ? Who calls people racist for questioning any aspect of multiculturalism or immigration ? Who has created this culture where the police and other local offices of the state are not only afraid to do their jobs but even to speak out about the issues they face for fear of being a supposed racist?
Politicians and media on the Left certainly, but also in their own small way, posters on forums on the internet, just like these on BlueMoon. They help create that culture and for me any poster on here whose first thought on alleged Pakistani grooming gangs is to try and deflect with what about the white ones, that's Racist , that's Far right , political point scoring etc is in their own small way responsible for that culture.
Do you think they should not be held to account a little bit for that ? I do , they should have a good look in the mirror.
Will they do that of their own volition ? - you can see from some of the posts on here , not a bit of it , in the main absolutely shameless .
So yes agreed in principle, not in this case.

We all should reflect at times like this.
Justice, and the safety of children, should be the ONLY considerations.
It isn't difficult to simply act on evidence, to build a case, try, prosecute and sentence for crimes committed.

I call out racism when I see it because it gets in the way of justice and in the way of criminal proceedings. I highlighted the perfect example of it with the Liverpool parade incident - immediately seized upon as a likely act of terror, then changed to be 'that's not the same bloke' because he was white, then changed to be a likely consequence of PTSD because he was a marine. Some are so desperate to confirm their prejudice that they ignore all the evidence before them because of their beliefs about skin colour and ethnicity. This gets in the way of justice and building a case. We know this and we see this every, single day on social media. Today, a former politician has called for 'all Pakistanis to be sent back to Pakistan regardless of how long they have been here.' In this statement, he ignores all considerations of the person simply because of their ethnicity.

To counter the allegation that 'the left' are responsible for creating this scenario, I would argue that it is a whole societal problem. We have become marginalised with fractures across many lines, perpetuated by politicians with inflammatory language, and by the media with its desire to label anything and everyone as woke snowflakes, lefties, radicals and anarchists, just as others may fear being labelled as gammons, xenophobes, and racist thugs. We are a horribly divided society and it's a long way back from here.

If it has been identified that evidence was hidden because of the ethnicity of the perpetrators in Rochdale and Rotherham then that is absolutely wrong and I am glad of the inquiry. In these cases the perpetrators were men of Pakistani heritage and justice was delayed because of that. That is wrong. Those labelling all Pakistani men as a result of these cases are also wrong.

Once you get back to simply gathering evidence without fear, ALL paedophiles will be revealed. Nothing should get in the way of justice and the safety of children.

 

[Kippax77]

Hi Melton
In principal you are of course correct but in this case I make no apology for " having a go at the other side"
The crux of the matter and why we have a " scandal" is nothing to do with the colour or ethnicity of the perpetrators.
It is not a 'scandal" that some of the perpetrators or a lot of the perpetrators were Pakistani or Muslim or whatever grouping you choose.
The "scandal" is that the law was not applied evenly to perpetrators of certain ethnicities for fear of arising racial / community tension and that the victims were denied the protection of the state for the same reason.
Essentially the lives of young vulnerable girls, many under the age of consent , children as Baroness Casey points out were sacrificed for the sake of the reputation of multi -culturalism.
Baroness Casey has confirmed what was already well known, that a major factor behind this was the fear of being branded Racist.
Who calls people racist for pointing out that a good many incidences of grooming crimes appear to emanate from the Pakistani community ? Who calls people racist for questioning any aspect of multiculturalism or immigration ? Who has created this culture where the police and other local offices of the state are not only afraid to do their jobs but even to speak out about the issues they face for fear of being a supposed racist?
Politicians and media on the Left certainly, but also in their own small way, posters on forums on the internet, just like these on BlueMoon. They help create that culture and for me any poster on here whose first thought on alleged Pakistani grooming gangs is to try and deflect with what about the white ones, that's Racist , that's Far right , political point scoring etc is in their own small way responsible for that culture.
Do you think they should not be held to account a little bit for that ? I do , they should have a good look in the mirror.
Will they do that of their own volition ? - you can see from some of the posts on here , not a bit of it , in the main absolutely shameless .
So yes agreed in principle, not in this case.

Nailed it

 

[Vic]

Wow. Some proper apologetic cunts on here. How the fuck does someone not want to get to the bottom of this? Fuck me, just a pity Trump wasn't involved as it would be 1,000+ pages. Cunts.

This place is a cesspit.

Because it's going to mean spaffing millions [(c) Boris Johnson] on an inquiry that would likely confirm that individuals may, out of misplaced concern about community cohesion *, have played down the ethnicity of the rapists (and/or the likelihood of getting convictions because of the "her word against mine" that mean most rapists aren't convicted).

* or not misplaced concern that some people might respond in illegal ways.

But see Hillsborough. No-one who "turned a blind eye" would be convicted, if police who falsified statements weren't convicted. Bluntly, what evidence would there be about a "cover up"? Council minutes? Or a backroom discussion that those involved would say was not about turning a blind eye but about the unlikelihood of getting convictions.

I may be missing something in all this, but the "national inquiry" recommended by Casey seems just to give teeth (compel witnesses to appear) to what the government planned anyway - to have local investigations.

Implementing Casey's other recommendations (and those of the previous inquiries) is the main thing.

Worst, if there is any evidence of corruption then the police should be investigating anyway. Instead, like Grenfell, we end up with prosecutions waiting for the public inquiry.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

why? Tell me what is not factual about that post?

I was referring to the post that you replied to.

 

[Brewster's millions]

Because it's going to mean spaffing millions [(c) Boris Johnson] on an inquiry that would likely confirm that individuals may, out of misplaced concern about community cohesion *, have played down the ethnicity of the rapists (and/or the likelihood of getting convictions because of the "her word against mine" that mean most rapists aren't convicted).

* or not misplaced concern that some people might respond in illegal ways.

But see Hillsborough. No-one who "turned a blind eye" would be convicted, if police who falsified statements weren't convicted. Bluntly, what evidence would there be about a "cover up"? Council minutes? Or a backroom discussion that those involved would say was not about turning a blind eye but about the unlikelihood of getting convictions.

I may be missing something in all this, but the "national inquiry" recommended by Casey seems just to give teeth (compel witnesses to appear) to what the government planned anyway - to have local investigations.

Implementing Casey's other recommendations (and those of the previous inquiries) is the main thing.

Worst, if there is any evidence of corruption then the police should be investigating anyway. Instead, like Grenfell, we end up with prosecutions waiting for the public inquiry.

You are missing something, unsurprisingly.

Given the need to provide the local investigations with ‘teeth’, as you put it, why did the government initially refuse a full statutory inquiry?

Everyone knew that those involved in the various cover ups could simply refuse to provide evidence in the initial approach favoured by the government. That would result in a true waste of public money which, rather uncharacteristically, suddenly seems a major concern for a few on here.

You suggest that Casey is simply ratifying the government’s initial approach, but you couldn’t be further from the truth. A full inquiry is being launched because the government set up these local investigations to fail. You should be asking yourself why they did that, rather than making excuses for it.

Also, prosecutions won’t have to wait for the publication of the new inquiry. That’s further distraction, after all the nonsense already posted on here over the past couple of days.

 

[BlueHammer85]

You are missing something, unsurprisingly.

Given the need to provide the local investigations with ‘teeth’, as you put it, why did the government initially refuse a full statutory inquiry?

Because we've had numerous inquires including a national one costing millions and millions and if the Tories had actually got on with implementing the recommendations from the Jay report then we probably would never be in this situation.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

There is some desperate shameful stuff posted on here in the last few days.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Seems to me the real lesson from this isn't the ethnicity of the offenders, but that nobody cared about the victims.

Many other child abuse scandals are the same; all those children's homes preyed on by Cyril Smith and his ilk just for instance.

Those on here making nakedly racist comments about Pakistanis should ask themselves about the ethnicity of all those involved in other child abuse scandals, and how they were protected and covered up by people of White British origin.

On the enquiry, I've no idea if it's the right thing to do or not. These things seem to take years and often get nowhere. Equally I can understand why it's been done, some power to shine a light on the whole scope of what's happened.

The Scottish Child Abuse Enquiry is ten years in and still going. No idea when it will conclude.

Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Brewster's millions]

Because we've had numerous inquires including a national one costing millions and millions and if the Tories had actually got on with implementing the recommendations from the Jay report then we probably would never be in this situation.

Complete nonsense.

Again, if we pretend for a moment that concern for public expenditure was the issue, then why push ahead with several local inquiries - still costing tens of millions - when they lacked the power to achieve anything?

They were set up to fail, and thankfully Casey has put an end to it.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Complete nonsense.

Again, if we pretend for a moment that concern for public expenditure was the issue, then why push ahead with several local inquiries - still costing tens of millions - when they lacked the power to achieve anything?

They were set up to fail, and thankfully Casey has put an end to it.

I have faith in current Labour and Casey implementing a new national inquiry - i just have concern it will delay implementing the current recommendations and nothing will come out of it. either way, hope it puts a dent in these sick grooming gangs.

 

[meltonblue]

Hi Melton
In principal you are of course correct but in this case I make no apology for " having a go at the other side"
The crux of the matter and why we have a " scandal" is nothing to do with the colour or ethnicity of the perpetrators.
It is not a 'scandal" that some of the perpetrators or a lot of the perpetrators were Pakistani or Muslim or whatever grouping you choose.
The "scandal" is that the law was not applied evenly to perpetrators of certain ethnicities for fear of arising racial / community tension and that the victims were denied the protection of the state for the same reason.
Essentially the lives of young vulnerable girls, many under the age of consent , children as Baroness Casey points out were sacrificed for the sake of the reputation of multi -culturalism.
Baroness Casey has confirmed what was already well known, that a major factor behind this was the fear of being branded Racist.
Who calls people racist for pointing out that a good many incidences of grooming crimes appear to emanate from the Pakistani community ? Who calls people racist for questioning any aspect of multiculturalism or immigration ? Who has created this culture where the police and other local offices of the state are not only afraid to do their jobs but even to speak out about the issues they face for fear of being a supposed racist?
Politicians and media on the Left certainly, but also in their own small way, posters on forums on the internet, just like these on BlueMoon. They help create that culture and for me any poster on here whose first thought on alleged Pakistani grooming gangs is to try and deflect with what about the white ones, that's Racist , that's Far right , political point scoring etc is in their own small way responsible for that culture.
Do you think they should not be held to account a little bit for that ? I do , they should have a good look in the mirror.
Will they do that of their own volition ? - you can see from some of the posts on here , not a bit of it , in the main absolutely shameless .
So yes agreed in principle, not in this case.

Yes, hopefully that will come out fully in the inquiry and anyone that did do that should be held to account. Likewise the inquiry will be looking at other factors too and I don’t think anyone from a political perspective has the right to any moral high ground, some of the local inquiries have shown that already. It’s a failing across the board.

 

[meltonblue]

Complete nonsense.

Again, if we pretend for a moment that concern for public expenditure was the issue, then why push ahead with several local inquiries - still costing tens of millions - when they lacked the power to achieve anything?

They were set up to fail, and thankfully Casey has put an end to it.

It doesn’t detract from the need for there to be a national inquiry too but I strongly disagree that the local inquiries that have been done haven’t achieved anything.

 

[tweety]

Seems to me the real lesson from this isn't the ethnicity of the offenders, but that nobody cared about the victims.

You're so wrong there. It was all about protecting the Pakistani rapists, the victims were the collateral damage.
I drove a hackney for a few years and knew exactly what some of them got away with regarding their conduct as a cabbie. Nothing ever stays a secret in that job. Complaints were swept under the carpet because every time the race card would be pulled and the local authority didn't have the balls to take them on.
A few years back CCTV was made mandatory in our LA which led to quite a few looking for alternative employment because they knew that they'd finally be found out.
I also did some private hire work and the company I worked for would never have a Pakistani on their books! No problem for Indians though.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Just applauded Sarah Champion for standing up in parliament. You could see she was nervous about what she was about to say, and told off Raynor and Philps for spending PMQs points scoring over the grooming gangs rather than supporting the victims.

 

[mind your car Mr?]

I don't see the point of wasting time and money - it will be amusing to see certain folks reactions when the ethnicity of the vast number of members of grooming gangs is recorded as " White British"

she obviously hasn't got a clue what she's taliking about, doesn't even mention benny hill ffs

 

[Marklr]

You're so wrong there. It was all about protecting the Pakistani rapists, the victims were the collateral damage.
I drove a hackney for a few years and knew exactly what some of them got away with regarding their conduct as a cabbie. Nothing ever stays a secret in that job. Complaints were swept under the carpet because every time the race card would be pulled and the local authority didn't have the balls to take them on.
A few years back CCTV was made mandatory in our LA which led to quite a few looking for alternative employment because they knew that they'd finally be found out.
I also did some private hire work and the company I worked for would never have a Pakistani on their books! No problem for Indians though.

Why?

 

[Hertzblue]

Just applauded Sarah Champion for standing up in parliament. You could see she was nervous about what she was about to say, and told off Raynor and Philps for spending PMQs points scoring over the grooming gangs rather than supporting the victims.

I am pleased you recognised her today but would have much preferred you offered your support to back in 2017 when she was sacked by Corbyn from her position as shadow equalities minister for speaking the truth about Pakistani grooming gangs ( As MP for Rotherham she has some expertise) . I would how many children could have been saved if we had listened to her then, a disgraceful episode in this saga. Or indeed offered your support back in January when she supported calls for an enquiry.
See below my post from January on that matter.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I am pleased you recognised her today but would have much preferred you offered your support to back in 2017 when she was sacked by Corbyn from her position as shadow equalities minister for speaking the truth about Pakistani grooming gangs ( As MP for Rotherham she has some expertise) . I would how many children could have been saved if we had listened to her then, a disgraceful episode in this saga. Or indeed offered your support back in January when she supported calls for an enquiry.
See below my post from January on that matter.

View attachment 160429

The irony.

She makes makes a post about political point scoring and you do exactly the same.

AlL LaYbUrS FaLt!

 

[BridgyDids]

You're so wrong there. It was all about protecting the Pakistani rapists, the victims were the collateral damage.
I drove a hackney for a few years and knew exactly what some of them got away with regarding their conduct as a cabbie. Nothing ever stays a secret in that job. Complaints were swept under the carpet because every time the race card would be pulled and the local authority didn't have the balls to take them on.
A few years back CCTV was made mandatory in our LA which led to quite a few looking for alternative employment because they knew that they'd finally be found out.
I also did some private hire work and the company I worked for would never have a Pakistani on their books! No problem for Indians though.

I thought you were a nuclear scientist?

 

[Vic]

You are missing something, unsurprisingly.

Given the need to provide the local investigations with ‘teeth’, as you put it, why did the government initially refuse a full statutory inquiry?

Because they felt the local inquiry at Telford was a satisfactory model for other local inquiries.

Everyone knew that those involved in the various cover ups could simply refuse to provide evidence in the initial approach favoured by the government. That would result in a true waste of public money which, rather uncharacteristically, suddenly seems a major concern for a few on here.

You'll now have to read the Telford inquiry to judge whether that is true.

You suggest that Casey is simply ratifying the government’s initial approach, but you couldn’t be further from the truth. A full inquiry is being launched because the government set up these local investigations to fail. You should be asking yourself why they did that, rather than making excuses for it.

That government would be a Tory government.

Also, prosecutions won’t have to wait for the publication of the new inquiry. That’s further distraction, after all the nonsense already posted on here over the past couple of days.

Has anyone been prosecuted for Grenfell?