Weight loss jabs

mexico1970 said:
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Real politics
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Chippy tea again tonight chubster?
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No mate.Cut down on chippy teas. Not had any tea as I've been on phone to a mate 2 n' half hours. Was going to cook a steak with Jersey royals and veg but i can't be arsed so I'm gonna drive to maccy D's now for a midnight nosebag; )
 
Kinkybyname said:
OK then, have it your way - albeit another ridiculous absolutist statement.

No one said obesity isn't a complex chronic situation (for some people). I certainly didn't.

But if you're trying to tell me that this applies to all morbidly overweight people in the UK, then you are wrong.

I hope you manage to stay healthy.
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My point was never that every single person who is overweight has the same biological drivers, but that for the vast majority of individuals struggling with obesity, willpower is not the deciding factor.

Regarding your "ridiculous absolutist statement" comment, I'm simply reflecting the established medical understanding that obesity is a complex, chronic disease, as recognised by major health bodies. This isn't an "absolutist statement"; it's a recognition of the widespread biological and environmental factors that explain why so many struggle, often despite significant effort, and not the simplistic "just eat less" narrative that you seem wedded to. It moves beyond the simplistic blame game.

Thanks for the best wishes for my health.
 
anyoldblu said:
My point was never that every single person who is overweight has the same biological drivers, but that for the vast majority of individuals struggling with obesity, willpower is not the deciding factor.

Regarding your "ridiculous absolutist statement" comment, I'm simply reflecting the established medical understanding that obesity is a complex, chronic disease, as recognised by major health bodies. This isn't an "absolutist statement"; it's a recognition of the widespread biological and environmental factors that explain why so many struggle, often despite significant effort, and not the simplistic "just eat less" narrative that you seem wedded to. It moves beyond the simplistic blame game.

Thanks for the best wishes for my health.
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I have/had issues too
 
I'm another one who is currently on these jabs (Mounjaro). One of the best things I've done. I did get a full health check at the GP before starting it (particularly important to check organ health) and also it's important not to lose weight too fast (that can cause gallstones which in turn can cause pancreatitis). Some days I've had to struggle to make sure I ate enough calories.

Finally eating protein and doing weight training is important. You don't want to lose muscle mass more than necessary as your metabolism basically is your muscle and if you lose muscle your body burns fewer calories which will be a massive issue once you come off the jabs.
 
Odd socks said:
Seven pages of mixed thoughts on the jab or is the anger aimed at the NHS for prescribing it.
Most people I know who have taken it including myself pay privately and have gone through a vetting process and disclosed it to their doctors.
I started just 8 week's ago and down around 20 lbs and will probably get down another 20 before looking at maintenance options.
Played senior football for 20+ years and always around 90kg but after working 40 year's of shift work I retired up at 115 kg so looking at a target of 90kg again.
Anyway, since starting my cholesterol is down so not going on stations that doctor was pushing for and blood pressure down in decent range but still on the 5mg for now.
Stopped taking an antibiotic that I've been on for years for a skin complaint that has disappeared ( could be caused by something I was eating but not identified).
So I guess I'm saving the NHS around £50 a month and I think they are winning by me paying private for my jab.
Not trying to antagonize the run jump and skip people but I have plenty of mates who have had hips and knees changed so these need NHS help.
I already resigned myself that I will happily jab for the rest of my life if I can be 90kg rather than 115 and if I get an extra couple of years then my extra pension will cover it.
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The most sensible level headed post on this thread.
 
anyoldblu said:
I've been reading this thread, and I need to push back on the "just eat less and exercise more" narrative. Honestly, if it were that simple, none of us would be here discussing this. Yes, I am a fat fuck, Yes, my BMI has been up and down like a tart's drawers. Unless you've lived it, you'll struggle to understand it.

For so many of us, it's NOT a lack of willpower. That's a harmful myth that overlooks the complexities of biology and our modern food environment. For the hard of thinking or understanding:
  • It's NOT a willpower problem. The idea that people "just need more willpower" completely misunderstands how our bodies regulate weight. We're fighting against powerful biological signals, not just a craving. Many of us have been "serial dieters" our entire lives, only to experience the crushing disappointment of the "bounce back." This isn't a moral failing. Crucially, these medications often reduce what's known as "food noise," quieting the constant, intrusive thoughts about eating that many people experience. Go look at the contestants on "The Biggest Loser" if you want to see bounceback in action.
  • The UPF epidemic is real. We are surrounded by highly palatable, addictive Ultra-Processed Foods (UPF) designed to override our natural satiety signals. Expecting someone to resist these without help constantly is like asking them to swim upstream against a raging current forever. Our food environment is making us sick, and that's not just a matter of individual willpower.
  • The "Set Point" is a biological reality. Our bodies have a weight range they fight to maintain. When you try to dip significantly below it through traditional dieting, your metabolism slows, hunger hormones skyrocket, and your body actively works to regain that weight. That's why the "bounce back" happens for so many, despite their best efforts. Weight loss medications can help recalibrate this set point, making sustainable change possible.
  • Lifestyle changes ARE crucial, but not always enough. Diet and exercise are vital for overall health and well-being. No one is saying these drugs are a magic bullet without effort. They are a tool that makes those lifestyle changes effective for people whose biology makes weight loss incredibly difficult, or near impossible, otherwise. They level the playing field. It puts many of us in the place where we can "just eat less" as "it's easy"
  • Comprehensive Health Benefits: These medications offer far more than just weight loss. Research increasingly shows they can significantly improve or even reverse conditions like Type 2 Diabetes, reduce the risk of heart attack, stroke, fatty liver disease, sleep apnoea, and may even have positive effects on mental health.
  • Think long-term savings for the NHS. Yes, there's an upfront cost to these medications. But what's the cost of ongoing obesity-related diseases? Diabetes, heart disease, joint replacements – these are costly burdens on our healthcare system. Investing in these drugs now to prevent or mitigate those conditions could lead to massive long-term savings for the NHS. It's a proactive, preventative approach that benefits everyone.
Let's move past the simplistic blame game and recognise that for many, like me, these medications offer genuine hope and a path to health that traditional methods cannot provide. It's about empowering people, not shaming them.

I got a GP referral to the Oviva.com program, which combines access to Wegovy with essential coaching and support to ensure those long-term changes stick. It's a comprehensive approach that recognises the complexity of weight management and helps set the path for when the drugs stop after 2 years.

If you're paying privately, or thinking of it, and have a big BMI and some health-related issues, go check it out. It's in addition to the new announcement and not as strict to get access to the drugs.
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Another great post.
 
anyoldblu said:
You're wrong. The science doesn't support that position.. Spend a little time reading around and challenge your very internalised views.

Major health organisations, including the World Health Organisation and our own NICE in the UK, officially recognise obesity as a complex, chronic disease. This isn't about individual moral failing; it's about significant biological, genetic, and environmental factors that go far beyond "just eating less." It's why GP referrals to programs like Oviva exist.
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There are loads of people who are just chubsters though, and the environmental factor is stuffing their fat faces and not moving enough.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
There are loads of people who are just chubsters though, and the environmental factor is stuffing their fat faces and not moving enough.
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The nuanced scientific perspective we've all been waiting for! You're probably writing for effect and know that's a remarkably simplistic and frankly, ignorant position. You've either not read or chosen to dismiss entirely the scientific explanations already provided regarding ultra-processed foods, biological set points, and chronic disease.

Reducing complex health issues to "stuffing their fat faces and not moving enough" is not only inaccurate, but it's a harmful, judgmental cliché that has no place in a serious discussion about public health. The "environmental factor" is far more insidious than individual gluttony, and a genuinely informed perspective understands that.
 
anyoldblu said:
The nuanced scientific perspective we've all been waiting for! You're probably writing for effect and know that's a remarkably simplistic and frankly, ignorant position. You've either not read or chosen to dismiss entirely the scientific explanations already provided regarding ultra-processed foods, biological set points, and chronic disease.

Reducing complex health issues to "stuffing their fat faces and not moving enough" is not only inaccurate, but it's a harmful, judgmental cliché that has no place in a serious discussion about public health. The "environmental factor" is far more insidious than individual gluttony, and a genuinely informed perspective understands that.
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Are you new here?
 
anyoldblu said:
The nuanced scientific perspective we've all been waiting for! You're probably writing for effect and know that's a remarkably simplistic and frankly, ignorant position. You've either not read or chosen to dismiss entirely the scientific explanations already provided regarding ultra-processed foods, biological set points, and chronic disease.

Reducing complex health issues to "stuffing their fat faces and not moving enough" is not only inaccurate, but it's a harmful, judgmental cliché that has no place in a serious discussion about public health. The "environmental factor" is far more insidious than individual gluttony, and a genuinely informed perspective understands that.
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You’ve only got to look at all the queues outside fast food outlets. Surely doctors should be prescribing diet and exercise and this jab should be a last resort. Everyone wants instant results nowadays and aren’t prepared to put the effort in to get the desired results
 
anyoldblu said:
The nuanced scientific perspective we've all been waiting for! You're probably writing for effect and know that's a remarkably simplistic and frankly, ignorant position. You've either not read or chosen to dismiss entirely the scientific explanations already provided regarding ultra-processed foods, biological set points, and chronic disease.

Reducing complex health issues to "stuffing their fat faces and not moving enough" is not only inaccurate, but it's a harmful, judgmental cliché that has no place in a serious discussion about public health. The "environmental factor" is far more insidious than individual gluttony, and a genuinely informed perspective understands that.
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It is of course economics and food industry factors as well - processed food and the fact that it's usually cheaper/easier to eat sugar laden crap. So I think we agree on that.
Let's face it though. You don't see fatties in famine afflicted regions or concentration camps etc. we all make some poor lifestyle choices and I suspect our lives would be dull if we didn't. Getting seriously obese is just negligent and irresponsible - we have to own our choices.
 
anyoldblu said:
The nuanced scientific perspective we've all been waiting for! You're probably writing for effect and know that's a remarkably simplistic and frankly, ignorant position. You've either not read or chosen to dismiss entirely the scientific explanations already provided regarding ultra-processed foods, biological set points, and chronic disease.

Reducing complex health issues to "stuffing their fat faces and not moving enough" is not only inaccurate, but it's a harmful, judgmental cliché that has no place in a serious discussion about public health. The "environmental factor" is far more insidious than individual gluttony, and a genuinely informed perspective understands that.
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We'll said. Don't believe a word of what @Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese has to say on this.

He'll eat your pies, he'll tell you lies...

 
anyoldblu said:
The nuanced scientific perspective we've all been waiting for! You're probably writing for effect and know that's a remarkably simplistic and frankly, ignorant position. You've either not read or chosen to dismiss entirely the scientific explanations already provided regarding ultra-processed foods, biological set points, and chronic disease.

Reducing complex health issues to "stuffing their fat faces and not moving enough" is not only inaccurate, but it's a harmful, judgmental cliché that has no place in a serious discussion about public health. The "environmental factor" is far more insidious than individual gluttony, and a genuinely informed perspective understands that.
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Honestly, just reading this and other parts of the thread, I come away thinking what part of the psychological attachment to food is being addressed? I've seen posters indicate it's "not easy" or "it's hard" etc., without explaining what the background might be, so other posters will just shout "fat bastard" without the understanding.

There will be some who just like food and maybe they don't know why, but it needs to be addressed. There will be others that have a trauma based background and that they are in the middle of addressing or simply don't want to because they don't want to revisit the trauma. So the cycle begins where one becomes embarrassed at what they've done to their bodies.

I'm not perfect and have been critical of people that were close to me that were just eating for eating's sake and they hated the idea of exercise, responsibility and proportionality. But I, also, knew that person's background and what was said to them in their youth and them succumbing to that critique.

I don't judge like I used to, but I would like people not to criticise without better knowledge, me included.

But I know this stuff is highly personal without understanding the background knowledge.
 
I wonder how much of our overweight problems are caused by eating with our eyes instead of eating with body nourishment needs.

My wife, on the advice of a hospital consultant goes to a see a nutritionist who gives her weekly menu sheets and a printoff of bar graphs detain usual BMI together with body fat percent, belly fat percentages and muscle percentages etc..

She has learnt which foods attack dangerous body fat and which foods trigger the full hormones.

I used to say on my plate this meal is insufficient and demand some extra starchy foods ie to fill my plate but what that seemed to do was to hide the proper food so I still felt hungry.
Giving her more sparse plate a go actually worked to fill my body with what it needed.

Don't get me wrong we still go for a curry etc but pick our choices more scientifically and don't over order.
 
I’m of the opinion that anybody on the injections should also be forced to implement healthy lifestyle habits (daily steps for example) but I’d imagine long term the pharmaceutical companies want people on them for life, there’s big money to be made. I’m not against or for them and hope they can help tackle the obesity problem but I’m extremely cynical about it all.

I’m a fat bastard who’s lost 3 and a half stone with another 3 to lose. I’ve done this through calorie counting, ensuring I’m eating enough protein, proper food, daily steps and weight training. I could lose it much quicker with the injections but I’m worried I’ll lose muscle mass and being completely honest the side effects scare me. I appreciate not everyone is of this mindset but unless I can honestly say I’ve done everything in my power to lose weight and just can’t then I won’t touch the stuff.

People need to educate themselves and make better choices most of the time. You can still have a beer at the match or a take away at weekend as long as it’s in moderation. Learning about nutrition, how to cook balanced healthy meals you enjoy and implementing lifestyle changes should be drilled into everyone who is given the medication.
 
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