Tino Livramento

[mattcity5]

It’s not your money.
We need to go back to winning ways.
He can play for us for 10 years
It will be too late.
We could’ve got Hakimi 2 years ago, can we get him now that he’s comfortably the best itw ? Obviously not.
did you watch Martim in the CWC he was average at best. He never even played as an orthodox RB he was a CB in a back 3
We have a HG quota issue, the club isn’t going for Trafford or MGW or Aina. There’s no other option. Grealish, Stones, Ake, Walker, Lewis could all be gone by the end of next season. We can’t just have Foden and Bobb.

A lot of people wanted Kalvin Phillips. Some didn't. We gave him a six year contract. Now I know you aren't saying we should offer a ten year contract, but if we're paying £70m then we need to be pretty certain. Maybe we aren't. I'm not, and I think he's quite good.

It isn't my money, but the price does matter because it affects future spending.

 

[Craig]

You could be right, but finding a guaranteed improvement in that position isn't a sure thing.

We may continue to push our 2 wide 'defenders' on, if we have Rodri there to sit in basically as an extra defender when needed.

We’ve might do but would be a very risky game with so many teams now being good on the counter. As great as Rodri is i don’t see how he stops teams getting ball down the side of our centre backs to quick wide men or strikers.

I just really rate this lad. So think he’s as close to a sure thing as we can get.

 

[Dax777]

It’s not your money

Irrelevant.

We need to go back to winning ways.

A RB with potential doesn't guarantee that

He can play for us for 10 years

Or he can stagnate and not develop and become another albatross everyone wants out. We don't know for sure .

It will be too late.

No it wont. He will be at Newcastle. No one is paying 75 million for a prospect. It is not a surprise there are ZERO other suitors. Just us. He'll be cheaper next year when we actually know for a fact he is a stud. So we can wait.

We could’ve got Hakimi 2 years ago, can we get him now that he’s comfortably the best itw ? Obviously not.

We could and should have gotten him when he was clearly an absolute talent in Italy, and that would have been a 35 mullion purchase. Even now hos valie is 80 million. The amount some are suggesting wont even be enough to sign a prospect from Newcastle. Madness!

did you watch Martim in the CWC he was average at best. He never even played as an orthodox RB he was a CB in a back 3

Yes, i saw him playing Center Back. Which was a plus for a 19 year old who's already one of the best crossers of the ball and forward passers around.

But notice i didn't say go get him now. I said lets wait a year and see which one develops beyond mere potential.

We have a HG quota issue, the club isn’t going for Trafford or MGW or Aina. There’s no other option.

Panicking is never the right answer. We have a very good squad and don't need to panic.

Grealish, Stones, Ake, Walker, Lewis could all be gone by the end of next season. We can’t just have Foden and Bobb.

And we'll acquire the neat homegrown talents plus promote orhers from the academy.

 

[pbueno16]

Id' just yard Stones and Akanji for Guehi in that case. (although agree i dont think we'll be playing the 2 high wide full backs everyone thinks). The RB will just sit deepere and let Foden/Cherki interchange on the right without hitting hte byline himself much

Guehi not off to Liverpool yet?

 

[xmusampa]

We’ve might do but would be a very risky game with so many teams now being good on the counter. As great as Rodri is i don’t see how he stops teams getting ball down the side of our centre backs to quick wide men or strikers.

I just really rate this lad. So think he’s as close to a sure thing as we can get.

As long as Rodri is somewhat back to his best and doesn’t get bypassed like the al halal guy did to him last night

 

[Holcombe bloo]

Don’t we have a decent rb in the academy or that left with buyback that we could mold over the next 18 months? We seem to have won most trophies at u18/21 level the last few years

 

[trueblue1972]

Don’t we have a decent rb in the academy or that left with buyback that we could mold over the next 18 months? We seem to have won most trophies at u18/21 level the last few years

The step up from the EDS to the level required at City is mahoosive, were only likely to get one every couple of years at best who is good enough to secure a permanent first team place . Definitely no right back currently

 

[Cobwebcat]

A lot of people wanted Kalvin Phillips. Some didn't. We gave him a six year contract. Now I know you aren't saying we should offer a ten year contract, but if we're paying £70m then we need to be pretty certain. Maybe we aren't. I'm not, and I think he's quite good.

It isn't my money, but the price does matter because it affects future spending.

Correct plus the people that say “it’s not my money” are the first to say Cherki is a bargain and yet they are no better off personally from the deal. Can’t have it both ways.

 

[Blue Since 76]

What if he isn't. What id he's development stagnates. People pretend the more money we pay guarantees improvement.

Whether a player improves or develop is unrelated to how much you pay. Personally, I find Martim Fernandez more appealing. But I'd rather have both develop 1 more year to see which one makes the next step.

If Livramento is going to cost 70 million, weit for him to actually prove he is the best TB first, yhen we can pay the 70 million.

But 70 million for a prospect?? No!

As I've said, I've not watched enough of him to come to a conclusion, hence asking the question to others who are more keen on him. He's never particularly stood out in bits I have seen, but that can happen with a defender - the Maldini adage of a tackle is a mistake, so the best defenders have no highlights.

If he gives us the long service, he would be worth the money, but it's a gamble, but then again no more so than Phillips, Nunes, Gonzalez, Khusanov...

 

[BluestBlue]

Irrelevant.

A RB wirh potential doesn't guarantee that


Or he can stagnate and not develop.


No it wont. He will be at Newcastle. No one is paying 75 million for a project. It is not a surprise there are ZERO other suitors. Just us.


We could ans should have gotten him when he was clearly an absolute talent in Italy, and that would have been a 35 mullion purchase. Even now hos valie is 80 million. The anount some are suggesting wont be enough to sign a prospect from Newcastle.



Yes, i saw him playing Center Back. Which eas a plus dor a 19 year old who's already one of the best crossers of the ball and forward passers.


Panicking is never the right answer. We have a very good squad and don't need to panic.



And we'll acquire the neat homegrown talents plus promote orhers from the academy.

it’s not irrelevant. You’re not a shareholder. You’re a fan.

Natural RB is better than a makeshift one. Nunes is good but the difference between good and great are the finer details. Same as the difference in between getting a Cs or Bs and As. I had to know my uni courses inside out. Do pass papers in my sleep it get As. We know for a fact that Nunes will make a hospital pass or some mistake that would lead to a goal which he’s done multiple times. You can’t play him against Madrid and PSG. He’s our only weakness.

His progression indicates he has the necessary tools to become someone better than what he is rn.

This is a blatant lie. Signing a Newcastle player is already difficult. It would be impossible to sign him when he’s the best player in their team. Nobody is as desperate as we are for a RB and have a HG like us. Is he overpriced Ofc he is. We’d overpay 40-50 mil. Same as we did for Grealish. The market for HG players is poor. We all know this.

Yes we could’ve got Hakimi but my point is we didn’t. Same as Olise, we could’ve paid 40 mil for him and he’s HG but we didn’t. Tell me why would PSG who just won the treble sell one of their top 3 players to a UCL rival and to our owners ? He’s valued at 80 mil. Yes. So how much would you bid ? It would take an astronomical fee since they do not NEED the money. This is my point. It’s an unrealistic option. Call it bad squad planning poor scouting it doesn’t matter. We can’t get him. Now I agree with you saying 75 mil is too much. If you’re paying 80 mil pounds for a player esp a fullback they must be the best of the best. Might aswell give that to PSG. I agree. But I don’t see the club doing that. I’d get rid of Akanji, Dias, Ake, Lewis to sign Hakimi. I’d make room. That’s how good he is.

Now I watched Martim he likes to make underlapping and overlapping runs. He’s good at blocking crosses. From the little I see he’s not super fast or strong. But statistically he’s the best in al top 7 leagues for producing expected assists as a fullback. Only Raum is better than him. He’s also the 3rd best for cross accuracy (99.2 percentile), in the top 12% percentile for aerial duels. Mind you he’s like 5’11. The sample size is super small cuz he’s played like 2.4k senior mins. But you could sign him. But it’s a risk. It’s a project. He’s super young but he would be u21 and we would t have to worry about him for 2 years to get on the non HG quota. But I still don’t know if he’s ready. I doubt it. I and most fans want players that are ready now. Not Savio and Doku’s.

Panicking is a stretch. Just the state of affairs currently. We’ve maxed out the NHG quota we can’t sign any foreign players even if we wanted to. We do have a good squad. But a massive exodus needs to happen. We have Not completed the rebuild.

I’ve learned not to get too attached to the academy kids because the club and Pep have shown not to trust them as much as the senior players. The academy is used as a cash cow and to keep up with the PSR rules. There’s 30+ players rn that went to the CWC we’re one of the few teams that brought any kids from the academy bar OR

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Buy an English lad who’s already playing in a top 5 team in the league and have a brilliant right back for 10 years. Or keep doing what we’ve been doing for the last couple of years in other positions spending 40/50m on players from abroad who don’t improve us.

I’m glad you’re not in charge of my money!

;-D

 

[Dax777]

it’s not irrelevant. You’re not a shareholder. You’re a fan..

Ok. Should we pay 300 million for Livramento. Would you be celebrating if we did?

There is a price point where everyone will admit this is our pants being pulled down.

Mines just happens to be realistic. At 70 million for a prospect, we are being abused. Don't care if he is double homegrown.

Perhaps it's 250 million for you. Everyone has a limit. That's why the refrain of 'is it your money?' is irrelevant.

There's a reason why we discuss great value and bargains. It's not because we are personally saving a dime.

Natural RB is better than a makeshift one. Nunes is good but the difference between good and great are the finer details. Same as the difference in between getting a Cs or Bs and As. I had to know my uni courses inside out. Do pass papers in my sleep it get As. We know for a fact that Nunes will make a hospital pass or some mistake that would lead to a goal which he’s done multiple times. You can’t play him against Madrid and PSG. He’s our only weakness.

I take it you think Kyle Walker is a natural RB, correct? He made more mistakes than Nunes and made more than Zinchencko when they started on opposite sides.

His progression indicates he has the necessary tools to become someone better than what he is rn.

Yes, but indication isn't what we need. Again, The best RB in the world is valued at about 80 million. And we are considering something similar for a prospect with below average attacking instincts? Not a great decision at that price.

And no matter how much we hope, he wont fix the goal leaking we saw yesterday. That's structural, not individual.

This is a blatant lie. Signing a Newcastle player is already difficult. It would be impossible to sign him when he’s the best player in their team. Nobody is as desperate as we are for a RB and have a HG like us. Is he overpriced Ofc he is. We’d overpay 40-50 mil. Same as we did for Grealish. The market for HG players is poor. We all know this.

Again, too many of our fans like to lie to themselves about prices. They overstate what a player should cost. Prices go up when you want a player the current team has no interest in selling.

Reinjders is significantly better than Tino, and he cost less because we got all the right conditions. Same with RAN and same with Cherki. That's the correct model.
Buy great players, in good contractual conditions, for okay money. Livramento is an okay player, under terrible contractual conditions for great money.

The former is how you land Hasland, Reijnders, and Cherki

The latter is how you land Jack Grealish.

Yes we could’ve got Hakimi but my point is we didn’t. Same as Olise, we could’ve paid 40 mil for him and he’s HG but we didn’t. Tell me why would PSG who just won the treble sell one of their top 3 players to a UCL rival and to our owners ? He’s valued at 80 mil. Yes. So how much would you bid ? It would take an astronomical fee since they do not NEED the money. This is my point. It’s an unrealistic option.

We shouldn't be buying from PSG. But there are many others wgo we can buy from

Call it bad squad planning poor scouting it doesn’t matter. We can’t get him. Now I agree with you saying 75 mil is too much. If you’re paying 80 mil pounds for a player esp a fullback they must be the best of the best. Might aswell give that to PSG. I agree. But I don’t see the club doing that. I’d get rid of Akanji, Dias, Ake, Lewis to sign Hakimi. I’d make room. That’s how good he is.

I wont personally but i get your point.

Now I watched Martim he likes to make underlapping and overlapping runs. He’s good at blocking crosses. From the little I see he’s not super fast or strong. But statistically he’s the best in al top 7 leagues for producing expected assists as a fullback. Only Raum is better than him. He’s also the 3rd best for cross accuracy (99.2 percentile), in the top 12% percentile for aerial duels. Mind you he’s like 5’11. The sample size is super small cuz he’s played like 2.4k senior mins. But you could sign him. But it’s a risk. It’s a project.

That's why I'd rather wait another year and see how he and Tino does. They are both good prospects. Granted Livramento has the HG advantage but id rather wait than rush into unclear waters.

We don't have to buy just to buy

He’s super young but he would be u21 and we would t have to worry about him for 2 years to get on the non HG quota. But I still don’t know if he’s ready. I doubt it. I and most fans want players that are ready now. Not Savio and Doku’s.

Again, agreed. Livramento is Savio or Doku the RB version. Hence why i think forking over another 80 mil for potential just to have our fans moan some more the next season isn't the way to go.

Panicking is a stretch. Just the state of affairs currently. We’ve maxed out the NHG quota we can’t sign any foreign players even if we wanted to. We do have a good squad. But a massive exodus needs to happen. We have Not completed the rebuild.

And we wont complete it in one summer. Do not rush. Let the situation mature. Its already beginning to look like Gonzalez was a rush with how little game time he is getting :(

We need to slow down not speed up. And certainly not spend money wastefully. Even if its not mine personally :)

I’ve learned not to get too attached to the academy kids because the club and Pep have shown not to trust them as much as the senior players. The academy is used as a cash cow and to keep up with the PSR rules. There’s 30+ players rn that went to the CWC we’re one of the few teams that brought any kids from the academy bar OR

Fair enough. I am a fan of Nunes and Lewis and think they are good enough at RB. And i sint see that large a gab between them and any RB.

After this season, if Nunes don't lock it down and Lewis doesn't develop (which so many pretend he can't, while in the same breath assuming Livramento automatically will), then we view the landscape and go after the best RB who is not in a top club.

We do exactly what we dod with RAN


Be that Livramento, Martim or another Foreign player, as then we'd have moved on from a few more senior foreign and or non performing players

 

[Zenmanc]

We'll be getting knicked for route 1 goals and break aways all season unless Pep loosens up his "must play a high line" mindset- great RB signing or not. I'm not sure Liver-n-mentos is that RB at this stage anyway.

 

[IOWBlue]

There are alternatives to Livamento.

But we are struggling for home grown. Who do we buy instead. Nunes is NOT a full back. ( Or Lewis, or O'Reilly )

 

[BluestBlue]

Ok. Should we pay 300 million for Livramento. Would you be celebrating if we did?

There is a price point where everyone will admit this is our pants being pulled down.

Mines just happens to be realistic. At 70 million for a prospect, we are being abused. Don't care if he is double homegrown.

Perhaps it's 250 million for you. Everyone has a limit. That's why the refrain of 'is it your money?' is irrelevant.

There's a reason why we discuss great value and bargains. It's not because we are personally saving a dime.


I take it you think Kyle Walker is a natural RB, correct? He made more mistakes than Nunes and made more than Zinchencko when they started on opposite sides.

Yes, but indication isn't what we need. Again, The best RB in the world is valued at about 80 million. And we are considering something similar for a prospect with below average attacking instincts? Not a great decision at that price.

And no matter how much we hope, he wont fix the goal leaking we saw yesterday. That's structural, not individual.


Again, too many of our fans like to lie to themselves about prices. They overstate what a player should cost. Prices go up when you want a player the current team has no interest in selling.

Reinjders is significantly better than Tino, and he cost less because we got all the right conditions. Same with RAN and same with Cherki. That's the correct model.
Buy great players, in good contractual conditions, for okay money. Livramento is an okay player, under terrible contractual conditions for great money.

The former is how you land Hasland, Reijnders, and Cherki

The latter is how you land Jack Grealish.


We shouldn't be buying from PSG. But there are many others wgo we can buy from


I wont personally but i get your point.


That's why I'd rather wait another year and see how he and Tino does. They are both good prospects. Granted Livramento has the HG advantage but id rather wait than rush into unclear waters.

We don't have to buy just to buy

Again, agreed. Livramento is Savio or Doku the RB version. Hence why i think forking over another 80 mil for potential just to have our fans moan some more the next season isn't the way to go.


And we wont complete it in one summer. Do not rush. Let the situation mature. Its already beginning to look like Gonzalez was a rush with how little game time he is getting :(

We need to slow down not speed up. And certainly not spend money wastefully. Even if its not mine personally :)


Fair enough. I am a fan of Nunes and Lewis and think they are good enough at RB. And i sint see that large a gab between them and any RB.

After this season, if Nunes don't lock it down and Lewis doesn't develop (which so many pretend he can't, while in the same breath assuming Livramento automatically will), then we view the landscape and go after the best RB who is not in a top club.

We do exactly what we dod with RAN


Be that Livramento, Martim or another Foreign player, as then we'd have moved on from a few more senior foreign and or non performing players

I’m not an accountant. The only time I worry about fees is when they hamper our chances of getting other players. For instance getting Wirtz meant we’d get MGW and Wesley instead of the players we got rn. Low prices do help a player succeed like Akanji. He couldn’t fail at all cuz of how cheap he is. Whereas Grealish was never gonna repay his fee. What I’m paying for is peace of mind. I like the idea of having a backline of
Nouri Gvardiol Khusonov RB who I won’t have to worry about for years to come and so I can focus on other areas. When you look at the box we’re in the easier thing to do is just pay the money so we don’t have any more excuses this season as to why we don’t dominate. We’re out of the CWC so the players now have amble rest. We plug as many holes as possible. The system is the only thing that can be blamed.


Not sure what Walkers mistakes have to do with what we’re talking about … Walker played for 9 years so Ofc he’ll have more mistakes than Nunes. But he’s the best RB we’ve ever had. Looking at last nights game. Players like Dias and co relied heavily on him bailing us out.

I must admit I wasn’t impressed when I heard his name linked to us. His numbers are poor. My number 1 option was Vanderson. I’m not sure we’d be in for Livra if he wasn’t HG. I doubt he’s cost that much either.

Look I honestly don’t know how players are valued. It makes no sense how we got Tijanj for that price. Because he just signed an extension. Idk what Viana did. Cherki’s price is also so low but they’re relegated and he had one year left. RAN was a strange one too. I don’t know how we paid those fees. Gvardiol was 100 but we got him for 77. Nico G and Doku were 60 mil. I have no idea how it goes down so I won’t comment nor will I act like I know the best approach.

Wait another year and stick with what we have ? I respect your opinion. I on the other hand have had enough of “he can do a job, we have x and y players who can play there” I’m tired of squared pegs in round holes FC. Aren’t you worried we won’t win the PL and CL ? You really think we have enough to dominate the world again ? I don’t see it. Surely you have other plans if we don’t get a RB. Do we get a new GK ? Do you add a midfielder? A forward ? Is there a system that protects players weaknesses and uses their strengths


I can understand why you say Livra is a Savio x Doku of a player. To me Martim is more of a Savio x Doku of player. But I agree. It’s a risk. Just less of risk for PL player imo.

To be honest your assessment was very good. Why are we rushing ? The window closes in September. I always used to say that you can fix all your problems in one window. That why I never stressed about Arsenal and whoever.


I’m not the biggest Lewis fan. Personally don’t see a place for him here esp if we do get a RB. Like Nunes a lot. One of the few players that have earned their place for this coming season.


Great chat mate, seriously enjoyed talking it out.

 

[Roachy]

But we are struggling for home grown. Who do we buy instead. Nunes is NOT a full back. ( Or Lewis, or O'Reilly )

You are correct, none of those are the answer. Nunes improved as the season wore on, but defensively isn't good enough. The other 2 lads can do a job at a push temporarily, but that's about it.

 

[Craig]

Ok. Should we pay 300 million for Livramento. Would you be celebrating if we did?

There is a price point where everyone will admit this is our pants being pulled down.

Mines just happens to be realistic. At 70 million for a prospect, we are being abused. Don't care if he is double homegrown.

Perhaps it's 250 million for you. Everyone has a limit. That's why the refrain of 'is it your money?' is irrelevant.

There's a reason why we discuss great value and bargains. It's not because we are personally saving a dime.


I take it you think Kyle Walker is a natural RB, correct? He made more mistakes than Nunes and made more than Zinchencko when they started on opposite sides.

Yes, but indication isn't what we need. Again, The best RB in the world is valued at about 80 million. And we are considering something similar for a prospect with below average attacking instincts? Not a great decision at that price.

And no matter how much we hope, he wont fix the goal leaking we saw yesterday. That's structural, not individual.


Again, too many of our fans like to lie to themselves about prices. They overstate what a player should cost. Prices go up when you want a player the current team has no interest in selling.

Reinjders is significantly better than Tino, and he cost less because we got all the right conditions. Same with RAN and same with Cherki. That's the correct model.
Buy great players, in good contractual conditions, for okay money. Livramento is an okay player, under terrible contractual conditions for great money.

The former is how you land Hasland, Reijnders, and Cherki

The latter is how you land Jack Grealish.


We shouldn't be buying from PSG. But there are many others wgo we can buy from


I wont personally but i get your point.


That's why I'd rather wait another year and see how he and Tino does. They are both good prospects. Granted Livramento has the HG advantage but id rather wait than rush into unclear waters.

We don't have to buy just to buy

Again, agreed. Livramento is Savio or Doku the RB version. Hence why i think forking over another 80 mil for potential just to have our fans moan some more the next season isn't the way to go.


And we wont complete it in one summer. Do not rush. Let the situation mature. Its already beginning to look like Gonzalez was a rush with how little game time he is getting :(

We need to slow down not speed up. And certainly not spend money wastefully. Even if its not mine personally :)


Fair enough. I am a fan of Nunes and Lewis and think they are good enough at RB. And i sint see that large a gab between them and any RB.

After this season, if Nunes don't lock it down and Lewis doesn't develop (which so many pretend he can't, while in the same breath assuming Livramento automatically will), then we view the landscape and go after the best RB who is not in a top club.

We do exactly what we dod with RAN


Be that Livramento, Martim or another Foreign player, as then we'd have moved on from a few more senior foreign and or non performing players

I really don’t see how you think Livramento is a risk. Unless you say any signing is a risk. The 40/50m we keep spending on the likes of Nico who have never played in the league before are risks. Pay £70m for a 22 year old who has played brilliantly against Salah and Doku has even struggled to get past and is proven in a top 5 english side. Is as close to risk free as we can get for me. We payed 35m for a brilliant footballer on the other side who’s very suspect defensively. £70m for a lad who will sort out a weak position for us for years would prove very good business for me.

I think a lot of people on here don’t realise just how good this lad is. Ashley Cole should have a decent idea about fullbacks and raved about him. Seems to be City’s number 1 target too.

 

[decmancity]

I really don’t see how you think Livramento is a risk. Unless you say any signing is a risk. The 40/50m we keep spending on the likes of Nico who have never played in the league before are risks. Pay £70m for a 22 year old who has played brilliantly against Salah and Doku has even struggled to get past and is proven in a top 5 english side. Is as close to risk free as we can get for me. We payed 35m for a brilliant footballer on the other side who’s very suspect defensively. £70m for a lad who will sort out a weak position for us for years would prove very good business for me.

I think a lot of people on here don’t realise just how good this lad is. Ashley Cole should have a decent idea about fullbacks and raved about him. Seems to be City’s number 1 target too.

Zero indication Newcastle even sell btw, this 70m figure has just been made up.

So as it stands he’s not available, he’s clearly not going to push on his end so it’s a non starter

 

[Craig]

Zero indication Newcastle even sell btw, this 70m figure has just been made up.

So as it stands he’s not available, he’s clearly not going to push on his end so it’s a non starter

That’s true. Whilst the link remains though i’ll keep hoping it happens.:)

 

[Jocks Y-Fronts]

Why would Hakimi come here? PSG have a lot more going for them than we do at the moment. Even if we were to offer higher wages, PSG wouldn't have a problem matching that for one of their best players.

Only team he's leaving PSG for is Real.

Why not ?

PL is stronger than the French league, so why not get out of your comfort zone. Money talks.