The Labour Government

Hertzblue said:
They are there because they repeatedly lead the polling , they have the momentum , they are the news . No more no less.
If the same were true of the LibDems they would never be off your TV screen either .
Ed Davey in a spandex suit attempting any number of puerile stunts, I never realised they were so popular.
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They were getting more than enough airtime before they were anywhere near leading the polling. Farage never fails to get his mug all over our TV screens, yet he can't be arsed showing his face in his own constituency. And then you have people like Musk publicising them which is bound to swing things in their favour as well

Oh, and I''ll remind you that the Lib Dems currently have 67 more MPs than Reform

A Reform government will be an absolute fucking disaster for this country. In fact, I'd go as far as to say I'd sooner have the lettuce in charge
 
M18CTID said:
The Lib Dems. The trouble is, they're not getting anywhere near as much airtime as Reform are getting despite having dozens more MPs. Farage and Reform are never off our TV screens these days it seems.
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Someone earlier, maybe chippy, said the media reflect the public. Look at us who gets the most posts the dems or Farages lot?

The truth of the matter is they are leading the polls and have won some by elections. Personally I'm not worried about them actually winning a general election at this point but hoping that there is some media blackout and the disenfranchised are gonna disappear is very hopeful.
 
hilts said:
Someone earlier, maybe chippy, said the media reflect the public. Look at us who gets the most posts the dems or Farages lot?

The truth of the matter is they are leading the polls and have won some by elections. Personally I'm not worried about them actually winning a general election at this point but hoping that there is some media blackout and the disenfranchised are gonna disappear is very hopeful.
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I think it's more a case of who shouts loudest gets the most publicity to be honest. Sure, they have momentum for now but the there's a bigger, more silent, majority who wouldn't vote for them but their numbers are split across several parties
 
Chippy_boy said:
1. I don't know why they've come down and if Labour has had anything to do with it at all, but heck I'll give you that oine.
2. Paying people off is trivially easy. The Tories could have done that. Finding the money for it, not so. I don't regard this as a positive.
3. Definitely NOT a positive. Unemployment is going up as a result and will continue to go up. Who on earth takes some potential fruit loop on if they have to give them full employment rights from day 1. Bonkers, utterly bonkers.
4. etc. No, I can't give you etc as a benefit.
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1. Look at Wales.... 25 years Labour highest waiting lists worst anbulance service.
2. Now train drivers and NHS staff and many other groups are lining up for more handouts... (can't wait for winter)
3. Workers rights? What rights do workers now have? If you mean things like probation periods being axed then that is just ludicrous.
 
M18CTID said:
I think it's more a case of who shouts loudest gets the most publicity to be honest. Sure, they have momentum for now but the there's a bigger, more silent, majority who wouldn't vote for them but their numbers are split across several parties
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You are right about who shouts loudest and i would add their policies(all 3 of them:-)) are controversial in nature and far enough away from tte conventional to cause controversy/debate. Can we learn lessons on how the Democrats dealt with Trump? Unfortunately I think a substantial number of people in this country share their views.

On the subject of who deserves what in regards exposure and MP's I would like views on this
www.bbc.co.uk

UK election results 2024 | Constituency map

Get the latest news and election results in the 2024 General election from BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Pay particular attention to votes cast and seats won, please also note tte much maligned Jeremy Corbyn(by me as well) actually got more votes than any of the other parties in the last general.election first time and possibly 2nd time out.

Imagine that Corbyn more popular than the current leaders of all the other party leaders.

Strange and totally unfair times we live in, democracy is dead.
 
Chippy_boy said:
And AGAIN, as I said before, 400k is WAY too many. In the future, maybe a couple of hundred thousand might be OK. Right not we are FULL. We cannot accommodate any more people until we've had chance to build the infrastructure to support them. We don't have enough housing (and cannot build them), school places, hospitals, GPs, jobs. The UK is FULL.

So for now, it needs to be close to zero. Yes, we can review it later. But only later.

Cameron committed to get it down to "tens of thousands" in 2010. Since then another 4.5m (net) have arrived. It's COMPLETELY unsustainable and has made everyone poorer.

Starmer will never deal with this, because he is passionately in favour of EU membership and with it, freedom of movement. He doesn't want to control it.
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People are more afraid of being called racist than using their common sense. But anyhow I think a shouting match about immigration is the last thing any of us welcome.
 
hilts said:
I think saying they thought up shit that failed and wasted a lot of time and credibility isn't much of a positive. In a year they given money to well paid drivers and tried to take money from the vulnerable. Junior doctors fine.
The economy inflation growth etc.... neither great or bad, workers rights meh but okay.

So in a year they have managed what? Only someone with very low expectations would say that was particularly good.

A tad underwhelming and a tad too cruel. Thank god for some decent back benchers.
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I'm actually a bit mixed about the junior doctors. People train to be a doctor, knowing that over their lifetime they are going to earn a shit load of money relative to the average Joe. Not that these people with "the calling" are supposed to be going into it for the money... so they keep telling us.

By middle age, they are on perhaps £100k a year for working 3 days a week for the NHS and another £100k or so for private work. Income the vast majority of society could only dream of. Not to mention a great pension and retiring early. I don't know many doctors, but the ones I do know all live in big posh houses.

For these priviledges they have to "pay their dues" working hard for less in their younger years. Like solicitors, accountants and many other professions where the starting pay is not great... in return for the payout later in life.

But even as a junior doctor, they are paid well. Don't believe a word of this boo-hoo we only get £14/hour bollocks.

The average full-time basic pay for a resident (formerly "junior") doctor is expected to reach approximately £54,300 in 2025–26

www.gov.uk

Resident doctors pay award 2025 to 2026: investing in our medical workforce

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

Many earn approaching £100k from the NHS as "junior doctors". So not exactly hardship, then! The MINIMUM basic starting pay is £36.6k for a 40 hour week and since none of them work that, £50k or £60k with overtime and on-call bonuses is more realistic, AS A STARTING SALARY. Boo hoo, poor doctors.

A typical specialist registrar (ST4) working a busy rota might earn:
  • Basic pay: £61,825
  • Additional hours (e.g., 10/week above 40): £15,456
  • On-call allowance: £4,946
  • Weekend allowance (1 in 4 weekends): £3,710
  • Enhanced pay for unsocial hours: £11,728
Total projected annual pay: £97,665
 
Chippy_boy said:
I'm actually a bit mixed about the junior doctors. People train to be a doctor, knowing that over their lifetime they are going to earn a shit load of money relative to the average Joe. Not that these people with "the calling" are supposed to be going into it for the money... so they keep telling us.

By middle age, they are on perhaps £100k a year for working 3 days a week for the NHS and another £100k or so for private work. Income the vast majority of society could only dream of. Not to mention a great pension and retiring early. I don't know many doctors, but the ones I do know all live in big posh houses.

For these priviledges they have to "pay their dues" working hard for less in their younger years. Like solicitors, accountants and many other professions where the starting pay is not great... in return for the payout later in life.

But even as a junior doctor, they are paid well. Don't believe a word of this boo-hoo we only get £14/hour bollocks.

The average full-time basic pay for a resident (formerly "junior") doctor is expected to reach approximately £54,300 in 2025–26

www.gov.uk

Resident doctors pay award 2025 to 2026: investing in our medical workforce

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
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There pay didn't track cost of living rises for a long long time, I have no problem with it as long as the govt resist these kind of pay rises for everyone.
 
hilts said:
There pay didn't track cost of living rises for a long long time
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So what? Has yours? Has everyone else's in the private sector? I don't know why public sector workers think it's their god-given right to never see their pay go down in real terms, irrespective of the financial constraints the country finds itself in. Why should they get special treatment when they are in reality paid extremely well on any absolute basis.

From around 1995 to 2013, I think I got an annual pay rise perhaps 3 or 4 times, and never more than RPI in any given year. That's typical in the IT sector, especially in smaller companies. You get merit based promotions - or not - but other than that, often your pay doesn't move. And the company's pension contribution was usually 4% or 5%. Not 27%.
 
TinFoilHat said:
Why are you quoting an article from last year that was resolved without any strike action put on?
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I was merely pointing out that the pay rise does not guarantee no more strikes. It just tides us over until the next time they want to have the government over a barrel.
 
Sorry, typed so much I forgot to say why I am "mixed" about doctors pay...

Whilst I think they are pretty well paid already and their pay claims were excessive, at the same time we do need to attract and retain doctors and there may (I don't know) have been a risk in them quitting and going abroad in unsustainable numbers. So arguably they had us over a barrel somewhat. I say arguably, I don't actually know.
 
Chippy_boy said:
So what? Has yours? Has everyone else's in the private sector? I don't know why public sector workers think it's their god-given right to never see their pay go down in real terms, irrespective of the financial constraints the country finds itself in. Why should they get special treatment when they are in reality paid extremely well on any absolute basis.

From around 1995 to 2013, I think I got an annual pay rise perhaps 3 or 4 times, and never more than RPI in any given year. That's typical in the IT sector, especially in smaller companies. You get merit based promotions - or not - but other than that, often your pay doesn't move. And the company's pension contribution was usually 4% or 5%. Not 27%.
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Everyone should get a cost of living pay rise, junior doctors were particularly hit hard from memory, there was something about it but I've forgotten the details.

It shouldn't be called a pay rise tbh, only the amount above inflation is a rise.
 
hilts said:
Everyone should get a cost of living pay rise, junior doctors were particularly hit hard from memory, there was something about it but I've forgotten the details.

It shouldn't be called a pay rise tbh, only the amount above inflation is a rise.
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I agree everyone should in an ideal world. But the reality is everyone doesn't.

Still, as I say, I am mixed about it. I can see both sides of the argument.
 
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hilts said:
Everyone should get a cost of living pay rise, junior doctors were particularly hit hard from memory, there was something about it but I've forgotten the details.

It shouldn't be called a pay rise tbh, only the amount above inflation is a rise.
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The problem here though is that the junior doctors based their pay rise demands on the growth in RPI, rather than CPI, and this government agreed to it.

So that’s an extra 0.7 to 0.8%-pt of inflation each year due entirely to methodological problems within the RPI, and the government should have pushed back against that.
 
Brewster's millions said:
The problem here though is that the junior doctors based their pay rise demands on the growth in RPI, rather than CPI, and this government agreed to it.

So that’s an extra 0.7 to 0.8%-pt of inflation each year due entirely to methodological problems within the RPI, and the government should have pushed back against that.
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I personally think RPI is better but I'm guessing the govt was desperate go get an agreement.
 
Chippy_boy said:
So what? Has yours? Has everyone else's in the private sector? I don't know why public sector workers think it's their god-given right to never see their pay go down in real terms, irrespective of the financial constraints the country finds itself in. Why should they get special treatment when they are in reality paid extremely well on any absolute basis.

From around 1995 to 2013, I think I got an annual pay rise perhaps 3 or 4 times, and never more than RPI in any given year. That's typical in the IT sector, especially in smaller companies. You get merit based promotions - or not - but other than that, often your pay doesn't move. And the company's pension contribution was usually 4% or 5%. Not 27%.
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One of the many jobs I do is actually set the pay of other jobs in the organisation I work in. If there ever a bunch who think they are worth more than they are, it is the IT crew.
 
Brewster's millions said:
The problem here though is that the junior doctors based their pay rise demands on the growth in RPI, rather than CPI, and this government agreed to it.

So that’s an extra 0.7 to 0.8%-pt of inflation each year due entirely to methodological problems within the RPI, and the government should have pushed back against that.
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At the risk of repeating myself, also, in normal walks of life and employer will say "Sorry <workforce< but the figures this year are not good and you're not getting a payrise. Why this is unthinkable in the public sector, I don't know.

Worse, in the private sector, they might also say "And 10% of you are being made redundant". Doctors don't have to worry about that either.

Honest to god, if I had my career choices all over again, I'd choose the public sector for sure. People rarely get sacked, they earn very good money, get more holidays, get great pensions and get to retire early. And get to moan incessantly about hard done by they are. Oh, and get MBE's and OBE's thrown in as well.
 
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