The Labour Government

Vic said:
I met a 91-year-old yesterday whose main complaint was having to pay for a TV licence. A Tory cut that didn't get half the attention of the WFA (I didn't ask what she thought about that).
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Perhaps because it's expected the Tories might do such a thing, but it is not expected of Labour?

Incidentally - and this one HUGE segue that probably deserves its own thread, one of the biggest challenges facing Labour and indeed every government is that to a large extent, they are not even in charge. Sir Humphrey Appleby and his cohort of unaccountable, maverick civil servants are. Apparently, removing WFA was not even Reeves idea or particularly supported by her. It was foisted upon her by Treasury officials who had been gunning for it for years.

As a country we NEED to get rid of thousands of these unelected, unaccountable men in suits. The whole system of government needs reforming.
 
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hilts said:
Define rich, is the plumber who lives in wilmslow and definitely does employ his wife and she puts in the hours honest. Both their cars and spare room are absolutely used for the business etc....

Are they selfish? What about the sparky, the mechanic, the barber, the chip shop owner..

I would love to know how much we lose, it would probably make us all cry. Even this morning on breakfast shops all over the fucking place flogging cheap fags illegal vapes, 10s of thousands of pounds in dodgy gear per shop.

Will we ever know if there actually is enough money but too many don't want to chip in their fair share.
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To add in cash in hand workers, estimated at £35bn a year in uncollected taxes.

How many of us here have paid people off books in return for a discount?
 
metalblue said:
To add in cash in hand workers, estimated at £35bn a year in uncollected taxes.

How many of us here have paid people off books in return for a discount?
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It's not only that. The tax system is ludicrously complicated and leads to huge levels of under-payment due to error as much to fraud.

The Inland Revenue tax manual, consists of - wait for it - 80,000 pages of detailed rules and guidance. It's virtually impossible for anyone with other than absolutely bog standard PAYE tax to correctly fill in a tax return.
 
Following on from my comment above, one of the most disappointing aspects of 14 years of Tory government was, for me, that because of the all the infighting and distractions with Brexit and COVID etc, the Tories didn't actually do much. They had 14 years to sort the tax system out, for example. There's many things that are broken that they just didn't take the time to fix.
 
Chippy_boy said:
You know that, I know that and every man, woman, cat and dog in the street can see it. But do the paid up Labour Party members? They selected Jeremy Corbyn, remember! Took years and 2 failed GE campaigns for the PLP to get rid of him. Hopefully they will remember that and not propose Rayner in the first place or they could repeat the same mistake!
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.... on the other hand
 
metalblue said:
Their achievements pale in to insignificance compared to their fuck ups.

The only one in the room not seeing it is you.
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No government will please ever, you know that right ?

They’ve actually done incredibly well in a year, we’re all being played.
 
Chippy_boy said:
You know that, I know that and every man, woman, cat and dog in the street can see it. But do the paid up Labour Party members? They selected Jeremy Corbyn, remember! Took years and 2 failed GE campaigns for the PLP to get rid of him. Hopefully they will remember that and not propose Rayner in the first place or they could repeat the same mistake!
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If Rayner ever became PM I think that would be the lowest point in our country's history going back to Piltdown man times. She makes the rest of the front bench look half competent.
 
tweety said:
If Rayner ever became PM I think that would be the lowest point in our country's history going back to Piltdown man times. She makes the rest of the front bench look half competent.
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I agree about the low point.

But actually I think she's probably moderately intelligent, which combined with dishonesty, hypocrisy and fundamentally wrong ideology, is even more dangerous.
 
Chippy_boy said:
The top rate is 45% and the residual rate on NI (having paid the maximum already) is 2%. So 47% is the top marginal rate

Top earners get no personal allowance as well. They do pay 20% on the first part of their income and 40% on the next, but that becomes increasingly insignificant the more you earn and the 47% rate takes a larger and larger proportion of the total. Anyone on £1m per year pays 46% overall, for example. This catches a surprisingly large number of people. A senior partner in a consulting firm for example may well be on that sort of salary.

Another example, someone fortunate to get some share options might easily find themselves wanting to cash in say £100k of profit and they have to pay 47% on all of it (if they are top rate tax payers). Arguably this is worse. The consultant on £1m a year, every year, probably has a fabulous house and drives a Porsche. They can easily afford it, even if 47% is a heck of a lot of tax in pound note terms.

But it catches relatively normal people who maybe get a 1 time "blow-in", thinking great I can pay my mortgage off, only to find the taxman takes half of it. Regards this latter point, I speak from personal experience!
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You did say 47% income tax on everything they earn.

Less pension contributions.
 
mosssideblue said:
NHS waiting lists
Drs & train drivers strikes
Workers rights bill
etc
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1. I don't know why they've come down and if Labour has had anything to do with it at all, but heck I'll give you that oine.
2. Paying people off is trivially easy. The Tories could have done that. Finding the money for it, not so. I don't regard this as a positive.
3. Definitely NOT a positive. Unemployment is going up as a result and will continue to go up. Who on earth takes some potential fruit loop on if they have to give them full employment rights from day 1. Bonkers, utterly bonkers.
4. etc. No, I can't give you etc as a benefit.
 
mosssideblue said:
NHS waiting lists
Drs & train drivers strikes
Workers rights bill
etc
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All good things…but

Which of those outweighs targeting the disabled?

Which of those outweighs targeting the pensioners?

Which of those outweighs rising unemployment?

Which of those outweighs growth lower than inflation?

Which of those outweighs nurses being made redundant?

Which of those out weighs the shambles of making bills up on the fly?

etc
 
metalblue said:
All good things…but

Which of those outweighs targeting the disabled?

Which of those outweighs targeting the pensioners?

Which of those outweighs rising unemployment?

Which of those outweighs growth lower than inflation?

Which of those outweighs nurses being made redundant?

Which of those out weighs the shambles of making bills up on the fly?

etc
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They may have targeted the disabled, but that hasn’t materialised as the bill was all but scrapped

Re pensioners, I assume you mean wfa? That has now been resolved

Inflation is a funny one as there are both internal and external influences on that.

Making bills up on the fly. How many are now legislation?
 
metalblue said:
Incredibly well? Hahahaha you absolute wind up merchant.

You nearly got me there!!
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They had to inherit 14 years of Tories and the damage they have done to every aspect of our nation.

I’ll repeat

where’s the sky high inflation ? Where’s the sky high interest rates ? Where’s the NHS strikes ? Where’s the weekly train strikes ? Where’s the right wing riots ?
NHS waiting lists down to lowest in 3 years , energy bills down, workers rights bill introduced, landmark US deal that has saved thousands of jobs in British and Steel industry, India trade deal, closer ties with EU, Massive increase in defence budget, major infrastructure projects, Immigration figures gone from 800k to 400k, arrests of illegal workers up 51% since last year, introduction of neighbourhood health centres, 750+ schools set up for Breakfast clubs and much much more.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
They had to inherit 14 years of Tories and the damage they have done to every aspect of our nation.

I’ll repeat

where’s the sky high inflation ? Where’s the sky high interest rates ? Where’s the NHS strikes ? Where’s the weekly train strikes ? Where’s the right wing riots ?
NHS waiting lists down to lowest in 3 years , energy bills down, workers rights bill introduced, landmark US deal that has saved thousands of jobs in British and Steel industry, India trade deal, closer ties with EU, Massive increase in defence budget, major infrastructure projects, Immigration figures gone from 800k to 400k, arrests of illegal workers up 51% since last year, introduction of neighbourhood health centres, 750+ schools set up for Breakfast clubs and much much more.
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It comes down to this.

I assume you accept that to buy a banana, you have to pay for a banana?

Same with much of the above. You choose to buy off the train drivers, or pay for Breakfast clubs or whatever... and hand over the money to do so, or not.

The Tories (and I) believe that the best way to pay for these things is through a strong economy, and we also believe that you do not create a strong economy by first making people poorer. Labour think the opposite. They think it is better to take more money off people, spend it and then that will make the economy stronger. It won't. It never has and never will. The ideology is broken and has been proved to be broken countless times over, all the world over.

I am sick to death of hearing Labour MPs and representatives bragging about how much OF OTHER PEOPLES' MONEY, they have spent on X, Y or Z. Any wanker can do that. Labour are breaking Britain in slow motion. Not by stopping train strikes (FOR NOW!) of course, that's great, marvellous, let's all have a party. But by what they are doing to pay for such nonsense. And by what they are not doing, like controlling immigration at all. (The drop in net migration is by their own admission, a direct consequence of measures introduced by the Tories, THAT LABOUR OPPOSED.)

It will be fucked beyond all recognition by 2029 if they carry on at this rate, sooner if Rayner et all get the helm.
 
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Chippy_boy said:
It comes down to this.

I assume you accept that to buy a banana, you have to pay for a banana?

Same with much of the above. You choose to buy off the train drivers, or pay for Breakfast clubs or whatever... and hand over the money to do so, or not.

The Tories (and I) believe that the best way to pay for these things is through a strong economy, and we also believe that you do not create a strong economy by first making people poorer. Labour think the opposite. They think it is better to take more money off people, spend it and then that will make the economy stronger. It won't. It never has and never will. The ideology is broken and has been proved to broken countless times over, all the world over.

I am sick to death of hearing Labour MPs and representatives bragging about how much OF OTHER PEOPLES' MONEY, they have spent on X, Y or Z. Any wanker can do that. Labour are breaking Britain in slow motion. It will be fucked beyond all recognition by 2029 if they carry on at this rate, sooner if Rayner et all get the helm.
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Come on. We know you have a hatred of Labour, but the decisive action taken to settle the strikes had a much bigger impact and will save much more than it cost to settle them.
 
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