Alan Ball: Did Franny Lee Really Think He Would Bring Trophies?

OnlyOneUweRosler said:
Was talking about this the other day. Brian Horton had kept city in the premier league on a shoestring budget in 1993/94, and in 1994/95 played some great football. That season city scored lots of goals, beat Keegan's Newcastle at St James' in the League Cup, reached the quarter final of that cup, and dominated eventual champions Blackburn at Ewood Park (even had two legit goals disallowed, Kenny Dalglish told Sky he was in awe of city's performance.) Despite that, Franny Lee sacked Horton and brought in Alan Ball, whose managerial record was basically relegating teams, or nearly relegating them (e.g., Southampton.) So I've always wondered what did Franny Lee think Alan Ball would do differently at City? Someone said Lee and Ball were mates so it was a personal thing, but surely Ball's performance as a coach mattered? Given almost every transfer he made (Kinkladze and Dickov aside) was a catastrophe, and the league performance was so poor, what was going on?
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Don't go there, still haven't got over it.
 
This thread has certainly taken me back to the unhinged rule of the high pitched football genius.

To say those were disappointing days really doesn't cover the trauma of us getting worse and worse whilst the rags swept up. There was just so much optimism when perma tanned Franny swept out the Cuban heeled dictator. No pain, no gain....

The 90s were a very atypical decade for us. Still, at least the story's had a happy ending. ;-)
 
simmo said:
The game at home against Spurs 5-2 is one of the best games I have been to, it was City pulling apart a star studded Spurs side. Paul Walsh was a superb player and perhaps had a short spell where he played his best football of his career in a blue shirt.
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I loved that game, I remember coming home afterwards to watch the highlights on MOTD and Des Lytham described it as one of the best games they had showed live. Only then to read the tabloids the next day ridiculing that summary and describe it as a game of mistakes. The anti-city reporting was going on well before the takeover!
 
Citizen Green said:
Much as it pains me, I can see why united fans had a field day taking the piss around this time as Lee & Ball were like two comedic characters who had no business running a professional football club, especially one the size of Manchester City.

I'm not saying Horton deserved the boot, but I also don't buy in to belief we were on to bigger and better things with him. Whilst playing entertaining football with some big scalps, his ultimate record reads a 16th & 17th place finish in the Prem, a League Cup QF & a 5-0 hammering at the swamp. He didn't pull up trees anywhere after City either.

The best course of action would of been that next step up again in quality around the time, who could of worked with what we had, whilst adding some steal to it, whether a Martin O'Neill, George Graham or similar.
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I wanted Bruce Rioch at the time, he was playing exciting, attacking football with Bolton. I thought it was strange he went to boring, boring Arsenal, he just wasn’t a good fit for them and so it transpired.
 
BillCarlisle said:
Saunders' reign at City was very disappointing considering the team we had at that time. "Player Power" was his downfall, as you say. For me, he ranks alongside the likes of Ball as one of our worst managers however IMHO Frank Clark was the bottom of the pile. Closely followed by 'Genial' George Poyser :-(
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I don’t quite remember Saunders but didn’t he go on to win the league and the European Cup with Villa? My understanding was he was a disciplinarian and Swales didn’t want that.
 
OnlyOneUweRosler said:
Was talking about this the other day. Brian Horton had kept city in the premier league on a shoestring budget in 1993/94, and in 1994/95 played some great football. That season city scored lots of goals, beat Keegan's Newcastle at St James' in the League Cup, reached the quarter final of that cup, and dominated eventual champions Blackburn at Ewood Park (even had two legit goals disallowed, Kenny Dalglish told Sky he was in awe of city's performance.) Despite that, Franny Lee sacked Horton and brought in Alan Ball, whose managerial record was basically relegating teams, or nearly relegating them (e.g., Southampton.) So I've always wondered what did Franny Lee think Alan Ball would do differently at City? Someone said Lee and Ball were mates so it was a personal thing, but surely Ball's performance as a coach mattered? Given almost every transfer he made (Kinkladze and Dickov aside) was a catastrophe, and the league performance was so poor, what was going on?
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Alan Ball brought in Buster Phillips who was going to be the first ever £15m player. In all seriousness, I think it was a naïve ideology on Franny Lee's part that if we suddenly started playing flamboyant football it would solve all our problems? We had a steady team and half decent players under Brian Horton, including Uwe.

Kinkladze was a success at £2m compared to the dross we were watching and brought us great times. Kinky ran the show against Newcastle in the 3-3 at home. But the 3-3 was the highlight of the season. We also signed half of Kinkladze's friends on Facebook as a result of him playing a few good games!
 
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OnlyOneUweRosler said:
I sometimes wonder what a second season of Ball in the Premiership would have looked like if City had survived in 96.
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It’s not an unreasonable question to ask. 16th would be my guess. The start to the 1995-96 season did for us that season, and our points total was very high for a relegated side. So our true position was probably lower mid table from when the clocks went back in 1995, give or take. So he might have barely kept us up in 1996-7.

What a decline after that relegation btw. Actually astonishing when you think about it. We had a decent squad in Ball’s season. Not great, but decent. Two years later there was almost no talent in the squad. Gross negligence by Lee.

Also wonder how we’d have fared with TC in nets. Especially in those early games.
 
simmo said:
The game at home against Spurs 5-2 is one of the best games I have been to, it was City pulling apart a star studded Spurs side. Paul Walsh was a superb player and perhaps had a short spell where he played his best football of his career in a blue shirt.
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I’d say his spell at Liverpool was his peak, even though he was a bit part player to some extent. He actually played more games and scored about 50% more goals for Liverpool tbf.

He had some serious pace at that point. Definitely wasn’t a slouch but he didn’t seem as quick for City.

Crazy we swapped him for Creaney.

Although if you look at the way he moved around, and how often clubs got rid of him unexpectedly and inexplicably, I wonder if he was trouble in some way.

Very talented player who arguably should have won more.
 
OnlyOneUweRosler said:
I found it unreal. City were playing Liverpool, who were playing United in the FA Cup final the following week. Liverpool did not want to get any injuries or suspensions for the final, so would have eased up. City could and should have gone all out and won the game, whatever rumours about games elsewhere were circulating on the final dayThiss
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OnlyOneUweRosler said:
I found it unreal. City were playing Liverpool, who were playing United in the FA Cup final the following week. Liverpool did not want to get any injuries or suspensions for the final, so would have eased up. City could and should have gone all out and won the game, whatever rumours about games elsewhere were circulating on the final day.
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Hello, I'm a Liverpool supporter from Scotland Road area who once bricked a City coach around about 1971 when was 10 and received a load of (thankfully) toughened glass shards 30 seconds later. The 70s were brutal.
As regards the game you are referring to, I've got a friend, Lenny, who has the broadest Scouse accent you've ever heard who is a massive City fan who come back from that game saying us Scousers and you Mancs were trading Beatles and Oasis songs?
 
Mancity1980 said:
I don’t quite remember Saunders but didn’t he go on to win the league and the European Cup with Villa? My understanding was he was a disciplinarian and Swales didn’t want that.
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Didn’t Swales famously say of Saunders ‘if he goes, I go’. He did and Swales didn’t and the rest is history as they say.
 
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