US Politics Thread

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I don’t believe MAGA will abandon Trump under any circumstances, period. Even if he’s on the list, which he likely is, I believe they will excuse it away based on who else is there, “boys will be boys”, “this is all a lie”, “So what? Biden would still be worse. I’m still voting Republican”, etc. Obviously I hope not assuming Trump is on the list which, I repeat, he likely is. But I agree that the response to any and all MAGA types any time they say or post anything should simply be “RELEASE THE EPSTEIN FILES”. In all caps, of course :).

That inestimable coward Dax will never, ever, ever give up Trump — ever. Just ask him. And he’s not remotely as stupid or loco as a huge number of MAGA types. He is completely pot-committed and over the event horizon. There’s no going back.

I'd have 100% agreed with you before this entire Epstein-gate thing started... but it's led to this, for example:

Trump supporters burn Maga hats after he dismisses Epstein files furor as ‘hoax’

Mike Pence is latest prominent figure to call for release of files on sex offender once close to president

www.theguardian.com

Some segment of MAGA are extremely upset. How long their ire lasts and whether or not it's reflected in the voting booth who knows?

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I'd have 100% agreed with you before this entire Epstein-gate thing started... but it's led to this, for example:

Trump supporters burn Maga hats after he dismisses Epstein files furor as ‘hoax’

Mike Pence is latest prominent figure to call for release of files on sex offender once close to president

www.theguardian.com

Some segment of MAGA are extremely upset. How long their ire lasts and whether or not it's reflected in the voting booth who knows?

Who are they gonna vote for? A Democrat? Or someone so extreme even MAGA are deemed to be RINOs? Part and parcel of a full deprogramming of cult members is them realizing on their own (since we’re never gonna convince them) that they HAVE to vote for Democrats to keep Trump MAGA candidates out. Once MAGA is eradicated and we’re back to traditional GOP candidates (if we ever are), then the “we may vote differently but we’re all Americans” dynamic can re-establish itself. We aren’t remotely close to that dynamic and the mid-terms are less than a year and a half away. As such, my conclusion: if Epstein becomes Trump’s Watergate, fine — but you need the self-deprogramming to happen — as it did with Watergate — to have any prayer of normalization. Epstein may or not be a beginning — but it’s definitely not an end.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Who are they gonna vote for? A Democrat? Or someone so extreme even MAGA are deemed to be RINOs? Part and parcel of a full deprogramming of cult members is them realizing on their own (since we’re never gonna convince them) that they HAVE to vote for Democrats to keep Trump MAGA candidates out. Once MAGA is eradicated and we’re back to traditional GOP candidates (if we ever are), then the “we may vote differently but we’re all Americans” dynamic can re-establish itself. We aren’t remotely close to that dynamic and the mid-terms are less than a year and a half away. As such, my conclusion: if Epstein becomes Trump’s Watergate, fine — but you need the self-deprogramming to happen — as it did with Watergate — to have any prayer of normalization. Epstein may or not be a beginning — but it’s definitely not an end.

Agree. I don't think the Epstein thing - even if it blows up in Trump's face and even if it somehow ends his presidency - is going to change the MAGA mindset.

The story remains of interest to me - not because I think that MAGA are starting to doubt any of the nonsense that they believe in - rather, because this is the first time that some segment of MAGA are visibly upset with Trump.

 

[KS55]

There are two kinds of cults: those that wither away when the cult leader dies, and those that carry on regardless. The question might be: which kind is Maga? Is Dax in love with Trump or with the political ideas embraced by Maga?
Trump’s loss of support in the polls is largely driven by Maga types defecting, which suggests that at rock bottom they fell for Trump but did not embrace the extremes of the policies.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Do not feed the creature.

 

[KS55]

It hard to keep up but Maga policy on the Epstein files is:
1. When I am elected, I shall release the Epstein files…… Trump campaign.
2. The files are on my desk right now for review…… Bondi.
3. I am releasing the Epstein files…… Bondi on releasing old hat public knowledge.
4. The Epstein files contain nothing of consequence. Case closed. ……DoJ/FBI leaked memo.
5. The Epstein files were all written by Obama, Clinton and Biden. They are fake news………Trump on Truth Social.
All clear as mud.

This needs updating daily now. The latest policy is to release everything that is relevant and persuasive. Bondi has gone to court seeking approval to release grand jury hearings and depositions. I expect Bondi to ‘edit’ some of what is released.
Typical Trump chaos.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

This needs updating daily now. The latest policy is to release everything that is relevant and persuasive. Bondi has gone to court seeking approval to release grand jury hearings and depositions. I expect Bondi to ‘edit’ some of what is released.
Typical Trump chaos.

my understanding is that they won't need to edit it much. The grand jury submissions are fairly generic and won't have the detail - it's distraction to make some people think that it's everything.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

This needs updating daily now. The latest policy is to release everything that is relevant and persuasive. Bondi has gone to court seeking approval to release grand jury hearings and depositions. I expect Bondi to ‘edit’ some of what is released.
Typical Trump chaos.

There will be a lot of sweating in the fbi/doj. They are under massive pressure to publish what the MAGA base expects to be in the files. Yet what is in the files is not that and they can't tamper with evidence as that is a serious crime. Anyone deleting Trump's name or adding any Dems to any list could do serious time, and would be found out as its been seen by to many people and copied to too many systems.

Well and truly backed into a corner.

If I was kash Patel I'd quit and go into hiding. There is no good way out for him. Pam Bondi is already in too deep.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

my understanding is that they won't need to edit it much. The grand jury submissions are fairly generic and won't have the detail - it's distraction to make some people think that it's everything.

Yep. Those files were created under Trump's 1st term. His name will not feature. It's the hard evidence from back in the day. The flight logs. The bank records. The testimony from victims.

 

[KS55]

Yep. Those files were created under Trump's 1st term. His name will not feature. It's the hard evidence from back in the day. The flight logs. The bank records. The testimony from victims.

Were some victims deposed in the investigation of Epstein? I suppose the answer is we don’t know since depositions may be sealed.
A complete aside: If, as Trump says, the files were created by democrats for political advantage, why did the democrats not release them under Biden? Answer, of course, is that they were not written by Obama etc.

 

[LGWIO]

It does seem to be death by a thousand cuts at present.
Surely the best think for any "opposition" to do is simply keep posting all those pics of Trump & Epstein together.
A picture speaks a thousand words!

 

[TinFoilHat]

It does seem to be death by a thousand cuts at present.
Surely the best think for any "opposition" to do is simply keep posting all those pics of Trump & Epstein together.
A picture speaks a thousand words!

For once I'm supporting Murdoch.

Keep it relevant in the daily news cycle and Trump will overreach

 

[KS55]

For once I'm supporting Murdoch.

Keep it relevant in the daily news cycle and Trump will overreach

I think he already has overreached. Discovery in the case will force him to disclose info that he would like to keep secret. If not him, one of his oppos.
It feels very strange to be on Murdoch’s side.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I think he already has overreached. Discovery in the case will force him to disclose info that he would like to keep secret. If not him, one of his oppos.
It feels very strange to be on Murdoch’s side.

It will never get that far, of course. Confidential out of court settlement that Trump will present as a win.

 

[KS55]

It will never get that far, of course. Confidential out of court settlement that Trump will present as a win.

Most commentators are saying this, but I just wonder if Murdoch is so fed up with him that he will let it run at least most of the way. It could be fun.
“Mr. President, the birthday card refers to ‘our secrets’, what secrets were they?”

 

[Blue Maverick]

Most commentators are saying this, but I just wonder if Murdoch is so fed up with him that he will let it run at least most of the way. It could be fun.
“Mr. President, the birthday card refers to ‘our secrets’, what secrets were they?”

I don’t understand Murdoch apparently he hates Trump, yet Fox is owned by him and supports TACO! Just turn Foxon him he’d have no support on mainstream media.

 

[KS55]

I don’t understand Murdoch apparently he hates Trump, yet Fox is owned by him and supports TACO! Just turn Foxon him he’d have no support on mainstream media.

Yep, an odd relationship between two odd people.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I don’t understand Murdoch apparently he hates Trump, yet Fox is owned by him and supports TACO! Just turn Foxon him he’d have no support on mainstream media.

He may hate Trump, but he probably still prefers the Republicans to the Democrats.

He may more overtly back others for his own needs once Trump has left the scene. Fox have to support Trump because that's what the audience want, and it's what he can get out of Trump for now.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

He may hate Trump, but he probably still prefers the Republicans to the Democrats.

He may more overtly back others for his own needs once Trump has left the scene. Fox have to support Trump because that's what the audience want, and it's what he can get out of Trump for now.

You're correct about Murdoch hating Trump - but "probably still prefers the Republicans..." - you're way off the mark. Murdoch is 100% for far right policies - perhaps with some reservations against someone becoming "King" - or maybe not.

Murdoch is all about spreading his brand of far right, extremely conservative politics - balanced by his desire to make money. What's in question is whether or not Rupert would support a de-facto dictatorship - so long as it advanced his policies.

It's not clear why Murdoch hates Trump - but he does. I think that the WSJ about Epstein reflects this. A torpedo against Trump - Trump responds with denial and a bullshit lawsuit - which he'll never advance because discovery will destroy Trump and Murdoch knows this...

Meanwhile, Fox isn't all-out against Trump - Murdoch could make this happen.

Beats me what's going on... Murdoch seems to be playing both sides - if the Epstein thing brings down Trump he's elated - and there's zero chance that Trump's lawsuit against the WSJ will proceed - and on the other hand - a news block-out on this issue from Fox - well, that's going to line his coffers.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

You're correct about Murdoch hating Trump - but "probably still prefers the Republicans..." - you're way off the mark. Murdoch is 100% against far right policies - perhaps with some reservations against someone becoming "King" - or maybe not.

Murdoch is all about spreading his brand of far right, extremely conservative politics - balanced by his desire to make money. What's in question is whether or not Rupert would support a de-facto dictatorship - so long as it advanced his policies.

It's not clear why Murdoch hates Trump - but he does. I think that the WSJ about Epstein reflects this. A torpedo against Trump - Trump responds with denial and a bullshit lawsuit - which he'll never advance because discovery will destroy Trump and Murdoch knows this...

Meanwhile, Fox isn't all-out against Trump - Murdoch could make this happen.

Beats me what's going on... Murdoch seems to be playing both sides - if the Epstein thing brings down Trump he's elated - and there's zero chance that Trump's lawsuit against the WSJ will proceed - and on the other hand - a news block-out on this issue from Fox - well, that's going to line his coffers.

Really? I had the impression that he's very comfortable with right wing, but was playing off not agitating too much. I'd agree that there seems to be something of a shot across the bows about what's going on.

I suspect he thinks that anything resembling a dictatorship would involve a degree of media muzzling, and is adamantly against that (if it's his media).

I'm not sure that I understand your meaning here though:
"Murdoch is 100% against far right policies - perhaps with some reservations against someone becoming "King" - or maybe not."