What would you do to help the pub industry?

[Donmcfc]

It's not rocket science but it isn't an easy model to simply copy.

The majority of their pubs are freeholds, so they own the land the pub is on. Because they own not far short of 1,000 pubs, that pretty much all sell exactly the same beers, they buy in huge bulk, at a price not available to anybody else. They also sign very long term contracts with their suppliers, meaning even more saving. I think the other main thing in their favour is that they are very selective about where they open pubs. Whereas a lot of their competitors inherited a large network of pubs, many of which will have being struggling for years.

It's a great business model and I'm a big fan. But unless you've got the money to go out and buy 800 pubs, all in high demand areas, it's not really something you can replicate.

It would be a bit like buying a burger shop and planning on copying McDonald's business model.

And calling it Donald Mac's.

 

[Stephen230]

Was "The Grants" a Boddies pub, not far from the Mancunian Way ?
A proper local's pub with character.
Lived the other end of Hulme, my local was The Gamecock, which was a shite estate-type pub with no atmosphere.
Loved Boddingtons, the best beer in Manchester when started drinking in the late '70s...

Yes mate, just across from Hulme Park away from the Mancunian. It wasn't always a successful pub. It shut numerous times after various landlords quit. But the last guy to have it, was a local from the estate. He changed the name and really had it buzzing. Then all the new lot, who just wanted a cheap house near town, moved in to the new houses and the complaints started.

I had a spell of The Gamecock being my local as well. But right at the end, before it shut. I didn't mind it. Friendly enough crowd and get a good game of cards in there.

Not much left round there at all now.

 

[Platt Lane 59]

Yes mate, just across from Hulme Park away from the Mancunian. It wasn't always a successful pub. It shut numerous times after various landlords quit. But the last guy to have it, was a local from the estate. He changed the name and really had it buzzing. Then all the new lot, who just wanted a cheap house near town, moved in to the new houses and the complaints started.

I had a spell of The Gamecock being my local as well. But right at the end, before it shut. I didn't mind it. Friendly enough crowd and get a good game of cards in there.

Not much left round there at all now.

Thanks for update, mate.
Left Hulme in 1984.
Absolutely loved living in a proper estate, who, as an outsider, took me into their community.
Some very funny incidents living there, but had a great time.
Also, could waltz into town in 15 minutes and stagger home without waiting ages for a taxi.
Can you remember the pub that was past The Grants, nearer to Mancunian Way ?
Played football against them a few times and they were a tasty team.
Some rum pubs in Hulme, but it was a proper working -class area with loads of real characters...

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I'm enjoying this video right now:



They start out with the most expensive beer in the UK and then try and find the cheapest.

 

[Stephen230]

Thanks for update, mate.
Left Hulme in 1984.
Absolutely loved living in a proper estate, who, as an outsider, took me into their community.
Some very funny incidents living there, but had a great time.
Also, could waltz into town in 15 minutes and stagger home without waiting ages for a taxi.
Can you remember the pub that was past The Grants, nearer to Mancunian Way ?
Played football against them a few times and they were a tasty team.
Some rum pubs in Hulme, but it was a proper working -class area with loads of real characters...

No worries mate. You'd certainly struggle to recognise much of Hulme now if you've not been back since '84.

So many old pubs have gone since then, I'm struggling to remember where they all were now exactly. A few on that side of Hulme were The Crown, The Eagle, The Grey Parrott, The Star. No idea if the one you're thinking of was any of those?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It is largely changing demographics in a lot of places were peopke who live close to the town centres are in cheaper properties which are easier to but without a mortgage and the ones that don't drink.

Hence Bradford city centre and Blackurn town centre have very few pubs, masively changed in 20 years.

Any generation sees a big drop in Pubs, the same happened to cinemas when even a small town would have several picture halls, then people got tellies. When puns were the only thing to do there would be 100 in a small town, then it would be aorund 25 in 1990 then 10 in 2025. People have other options and running a pub is a mugs game, with the "self employed pub manager" model often lucky to get minimum wage.

The Millenium saw people staying at home as pubs clubs wanted too much money, and from then people went out less and smaller towns every week abandoned for bigger cities once a month. Then the smoking ban circa 2007, had a large visible impact. Then the one recent event that did mean people drank at home and lost social drinking contatcs was COVID.

Some places have seen a lot of new pubs shoot up like Halifax which despite being very close to, seems the opposite of Bradford in the last 10 years. It may be cyclical as Ramsbottom got very popular for while and is now in decline again.

I’d say most of this post was pretty spot on apart from the Millennium part. I’d say its impact (whilst significant) is limited to subsequent New Years Eves rather than more widely. And it wasn’t just the venues that ramped the price up that night; it was also door staff, DJs, taxis and even babysitters that killed the golden goose for the trade. NYE has never really recovered from the naked greed on display that night.

The impact of smoking ban has been much more profound, especially in relation to social clubs which were largely devastated by it, although many pubs were hit just as hard.

 

[Stephen230]

I’d say most of this post was pretty spot on apart from the Millennium part. I’d say its impact (whilst significant) is limited to subsequent New Years Eves rather than more widely. And it wasn’t just the venues that ramped the price up that night; it was also door staff, DJs, taxis and even babysitters that killed the golden goose for the trade. NYE has never really recovered from the naked greed on display that night.

The impact of smoking ban has been much more profound, especially in relation to social clubs which were largely devastated by it, although many pubs were hit just as hard.

What about Christmas Eve? Whilst never quite NYE, it used to be a massive night back in the day didn't it? Or have I imagined that?

I'm asking because I've been out a few times in town on Christmas Eve in the last few years and couldn't believe it the first time. Pubs were shutting up after the afternoon drinkers went home. Even Wetherspoons shut at about 5pm. By 9 or 10 O' Clock pretty much the only places still open for a drink were hotels and casinos.

When did this happen? And please don't tell me it's always been the case, or it'll mean I've completely lost my marbles.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

What about Christmas Eve? Whilst never quite NYE, it used to be a massive night back in the day didn't it? Or have I imagined that?

I'm asking because I've been out a few times in town on Christmas Eve in the last few years and couldn't believe it the first time. Pubs were shutting up after the afternoon drinkers went home. Even Wetherspoons shut at about 5pm. By 9 or 10 O' Clock pretty much the only places still open for a drink were hotels and casinos.

When did this happen? And please don't tell me it's always been the case, or it'll mean I've completely lost my marbles.

Christmas Eve is a good night for local boozers, but not in town and city centres generally, and that’s been pretty consistent for a few decades, so your perception could be driven by that. Maybe on those previous occasions you weren’t drinking in town?

It’s the same for restaurants with Christmas bookings which have generally fallen off a cliff by Christmas Eve. Depending on when the days fall, the last Friday before Christmas usually marks the last big day for Christmas bookings, unless that day is Christmas Eve. This year it might be slightly different from that as Christmas Day is a Thursday, so I’d say the last substantial day will be Tuesday 23rd, but Friday 19th will be the big one. Bookings for Fridays in December are nearly always bigger in numbers than for Saturdays.

Going back to Christmas Eve in town and city centres in particular, it’s a combination of lack of late public transport and the fact that people want to be close to the place they will be spending Christmas Day. Nothing more scientific than that.

 

[Stephen230]

Christmas Eve is a good night for local boozers, but not in town and city centres generally, and that’s been pretty consistent for a few decades, so your perception could be driven by that. Maybe on those previous occasions you weren’t drinking in town?

It’s the same for restaurants with Christmas bookings which have generally fallen off a cliff by Christmas Eve. Depending on when the days fall, the last Friday before Christmas usually marks the last big day for Christmas bookings, unless that day is Christmas Eve. This year it might be slightly different from that as Christmas Day is a Thursday, so I’d say the last substantial day will be Tuesday 23rd, but Friday 19th will be the big one. Bookings for Fridays in December are nearly always bigger in numbers than for Saturdays.

Going back to Christmas Eve in town and city centres in particular, it’s a combination of lack of late public transport and the fact that people want to be close to the place they will be spending Christmas Day. Nothing more scientific than that.

Thanks for the reply. You know, now you mention it, I think you're probably right. My hazy memories of mad busy pubs and top nights out on Christmas Eve were more likely in places like Northenden, Chorlton and Hulme, rather than in town.

I have stayed in hotels in town on a couple of Christmas Eve's in recent years and it's a pretty strange experience. It's a bit like you feel you've come for a day out at Cheltenham on Gold Cup day, but it turns out you've turned up for a Thursday afternoon meeting at Ludlow by mistake.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Thanks for the reply. You know, now you mention it, I think you're probably right. My hazy memories of mad busy pubs and top nights out on Christmas Eve were more likely in places like Northenden, Chorlton and Hulme, rather than in town.

I have stayed in hotels in town on a couple of Christmas Eve's in recent years and it's a pretty strange experience. It's a bit like you feel you've come for a day out at Cheltenham on Gold Cup day, but it turns out you've turned up for a Thursday afternoon meeting at Ludlow by mistake.

I’ve done a couple of drinks on a couple of Christmas Eves in Birmingham over the course of the last few years because I was there doing last minute shopping and it’s been flat as fuck.

 

[pride in battle]

What about Christmas Eve? Whilst never quite NYE, it used to be a massive night back in the day didn't it? Or have I imagined that?

I'm asking because I've been out a few times in town on Christmas Eve in the last few years and couldn't believe it the first time. Pubs were shutting up after the afternoon drinkers went home. Even Wetherspoons shut at about 5pm. By 9 or 10 O' Clock pretty much the only places still open for a drink were hotels and casinos.

When did this happen? And please don't tell me it's always been the case, or it'll mean I've completely lost my marbles.

Christmas Eve in manchester used to be huge, it then started to tail off mid 90's ? I remember going in 97 and it was dead by 8pm

 

[shemnel]

buying a pint needs to be less of a share of purchasing power. If it costs £9 a pint and we're all on a £100k a year, then so be it, but wages are stagnating and the price of going out to socialise is sky-rocketing.

Why can i go out in Spain and have a few beers with scran for 20 euros? same in other countries, why? why here is it eye-wateringly expensive to have a bite and 3 or 4 pints? what in the supply chain, shareholder system and/or business models are forcing us to pay exorbitant prices compared to GPE/PPP?

Going out is too expensive, for so many reasons, and supermarkets/shops are undercutting it hugely.

As a side point, i have done some events management and in the last few years it was announced that to stock the bar you now have to go through licensed wholesalers, you cant mix in some cheaper stuff from supermarkets to alleviate the losses that running events in this country (small, in pubs etc) inevitably incur. This was partly intended to help brewers etc, which i get, but is continually driving up prices.

 

[shemnel]

as an aside, being pissed in pubs doesnt define our culture, and there's no issue (with me) that younger people are doing different things. But you only need to go to many cities and see that pubs/bars are still a really valuable part of social life, it's just on occasion as opposed to multiple nights per week. The same can be said from the pre-Victorian to Georgian eras when family outings began to increase, and the pub had to change from men standing a drinking brown beer to someone actually serving food or putting a seat in for the poor weak women. Cultures change, hobby/activity culture shifts.

Pubs will never die completely, but the need to have 6 drinking dens in a tiny town all doing the same thing, is over.

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

I dont drink no more, so rarely step in a pub but this is what I would do to help the pub trade.

• Stop alcoholic drinks being sold in supermarkets and other shops at prices they are now.
• Make the prices of drinks in pubs cheaper, whilst increasing the costs of crates/4 packs in supermarkets to hopefully move people back into pubs etc
• Reduce the tax on establishment

top of my head