Welcome Donnarumma!

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HelloCity said:
Do you think Donnarumma plays for PSG all the way to the treble if he's not good enough in many attributes? Do Italy win the Euros with him winning player of the tournament if he's not good enough? Both of those teams played out from the back as well. We're talking him being in goal while winning the top 2 honours in european football.

You're coming across as totally insane. Like that crazed grandparent who has read an article about vaccines containing microchips and is now convinced it's completely true.
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Do you think that PSG having - in your opinion - such an awesome keeper who is loyal to the club - would have sold him... a side even more than ours, built on a high press and ball retention as a major means of defense?

I'm not a fan of ad hominem attacks... but FFS...

"You're coming across as totally insane. Like that crazed grandparent who has read an article about vaccines containing microchips and is now convinced it's completely true."

Mark my words...

Pep is not going to chance his entire philosophy of ball retention as a major point of defense.

Donnarumma is going to be a fucking disaster - because Pep will try to build out from the back with Donnarumma - who is average at best on the ball. This will lead to a flurry of chances for the opposition - which will lead to goals against us in spite of how good Donnarumma is at shot stopping while in his box.

This take - by-the-by - isn't some sort of idiotic one-off insane conjecture by someone who knows fuck all about football - instead - it's the take of virtually every single football pundit worth his or her salt on youtube.
 
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BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
Do you think that PSG having - in your opinion - such an awesome keeper who is loyal to the club - would have sold him... a side even more than ours, built on a high press and ball retention as a major means of defense?

I'm not a fan of ad hominem attacks... but FFS...

"You're coming across as totally insane. Like that crazed grandparent who has read an article about vaccines containing microchips and is now convinced it's completely true."
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PSG are playing a new keeper because their new ethos is about signing the best young players, especially those who are French. They're now playing the keeper expected to be the next French number 1 for the next 10 years.

It's not a stain on Donnarumma, but more that PSG just didn't want to lose having such a French talent as part of their club.

You also talk about PSG on the football side, but could you just remind me how successful PSG were with him in goal?
 
HelloCity said:
PSG are playing a new keeper because their new ethos is about signing the best young players, especially those who are French. They're now playing the keeper expected to be the next French number 1 for the next 10 years.

It's not a stain on Donnarumma, but more that PSG just didn't want to lose having such a French talent as part of their club.

You also talk about PSG on the football side, but could you just remind me how successful PSG were with him in goal?
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That's part of the equation for sure. Another part is that Donnarumma is demanding huge wages that don't fit PSG's system. And finally, PSG are built on a system that employs high press and ball retention. Donnarumma doesn't fit that system.

PSG were obviously coping with Donnarumma's poor ability to pass. They have a back line that - when passing from the back - are always nearby to present passing opportunities. Under pressure - all of PSG's back line are excellent on the ball and consistently make good passing decisions.

Meanwhile we have Dias - above average but not excellent at passing - Ait Nouri - a disaster on defense - and Lewis/Nevas - not great on defense or reading the game or lacking pace to get back on defense and so on. Stones and

Bottom line - PSG were able to carry Donnarumma - overcoming his distributional weaknesses while capitalizing on his in the box excellent shot stopping - but we aren't even close to being able to do so. Gvardiol and Stones at least meat the on-ball ability to carry Donnarumma if we want to build from the back - but that's a LB and RB short and that's assuming that we start both Gvardiol and Stones.
 
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BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
That's part of the equation for sure. Another part is that Donnarumma is demanding huge wages that don't fit PSG's system. And finally, PSG are built on a system that employs high press and ball retention. Donnarumma doesn't fit that system.

PSG were obviously coping with Donnarumma's poor ability to pass. They had a back line that - when passing from the back - were nearby to present passing opportunities. Under pressure - all of PSG's back line were excellent on the ball and consistently made good passing decisions.

Meanwhile we has Dias - above average but not excellent at passing - Ait Nouri - a disaster on defense - and Lewis/Nevas - not great on defense or reading the game or lacking pace to get back on defense and so on.

Bottom line - PSG were able to carry Donnarumma - overcoming his distributional weaknesses while capitalizing on his in the box excellent shot stopping - but we aren't even close to being able to do so.
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And how many times have you seen him play for City?

Just to confirm, I've seen him play live several times and he never did anything which stood out to me as being bad - but that's just because he was so protected right - at least according to the articles you've read/watched?
 
BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
Donnarumma is arguably the best keeper in the world at shot stopping ability when in the box.

But he's average at best when distributing the ball and isn't good at commanding the box on corners/free kicks.

More to the point - Pep has based his entire career on keeping the ball as a primary means of defense and has put a premium on goalkeepers who are good on the ball. Trafford makes perfect sense as a signing. Donnarumma makes no sense.
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We know all this and tbh I’d rather have a keeper that can save shots because that is the bread and butter of a keeper . He isn’t ederson with his feet but tbh it’s been a while since ederson was good with his feet aswell . Pep will have to change the way we play and that us why he gets paid the big bucks and if he can’tthen j would imagine the next guy coming win will be more than happy to have he best keeper in the world
 
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HelloCity said:
And how many times have you seen him play for City?

Just to confirm, I've seen him play live several times and he never did anything which stood out to me as being bad - but that's just because he was so protected right - at least according to the articles you've read/watched?
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Cheers.

No one has watched him play for City... obviously. But given 3 games or so with him in goal... it'll be clear.
 
BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
Donnarumma doesn't fit the Pep system at all - but beats the fuck out of me how we cope with a keeper who is arguably the best at stopping shots while in the box, but who is average at best on the ball... which in turn means that our build up from the back is going to take a huge hit when Donnarumma starts.
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Why the fuck did we sign him then?

As for the “build up from the back” nonsense. Thats dead and gone, have you seen the state of our defense trying to pass the ball now, it’s like throwing around a hand grenade.

If Pep instructs Donnarumma to play like Ederson then he’s gone insane and should be sacked.

So let’s assume that’s not the case and Pep is not going to do that and create unnecessary pressure and chances and we should be fine.
 
Paul1970 said:
Pep will have to change the way we play and had us why he gets paid the big bucks and if he can’t gem j would imagine the next guy coming win will be more than happy to have he best keeper in the world
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Cheers.

Ball retention is - as far as I can tell - the most important tactic in football. I cannot see him changing this philosophy at all.
 
BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
Huh?

Haaland doesn't fit the Pep system at all - but we can carry him. A side that relies on an effective press and retention of the ball can likely carry one attacker - Haaland isn't total shit on the ball or on pressing... but he's not great either. But he's the best goal scorer in the world - and given that ability we can carry him... by which I mean that we can compensate for his average pressing on defense and his average ability on link up play.

Donnarumma doesn't fit the Pep system at all - but beats the fuck out of me how we cope with a keeper who is arguably the best at stopping shots while in the box, but who is average at best on the ball... which in turn means that our build up from the back is going to take a huge hit when Donnarumma starts.
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I think what you think the ‘Pep system’ is (as if there is one) and the reality are likely a good few miles apart already and will be much further apart this season.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
I think what you think the ‘Pep system’ is (as if there is one) and the reality are likely a good few miles apart already and will be much further apart this season.
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I think that what you think is 100% opposite of what I think or at least I think so, I think...

Bottom line short - if you for some reason are of the belief that Pep doesn't value ball retention above all... then you've completely misunderstood how we've played under Pep, how we were so successful, and how we completely changed the role of the keeper in the P/L and arguably in all of world football.
 
BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
I think that what you think is 100% opposite of what I think or at least I think so, I think...

Bottom line short - if you for some reason are of the belief that Pep doesn't value ball retention above all... then you've completely misunderstood how we've played under Pep, how we were so successful, and how we completely changed the role of the keeper in the P/L and arguably in all of world football.
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I think(!) that, given that level of control is seemingly impossible, with the players we have and/or the way teams are prepared to counter it and getting Linders in as coach, means we might well be seeing a bit less possession and a bit more mayhem, particularly against the likely title challengers.

In that scenario, I can well imagine a goalkeeper like Donnarumma would be preferable to an Ederson.

I do know that I can’t wait to see him in action (hopefully not too much, though).
 
James Trafford isn’t exactly like Pirlo on the ball is he? Not sure why everyone was so settled on Trafford being number one and writing off a proven winner/leader with tonnes of big game experience like Donnarumma. I’m sure Pep has a plan. Let’s see.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
I think(!) that, given that level of control is seemingly impossible, with the players we have and/or the way teams are prepared to counter it and getting Linders in as coach, means we might well be seeing a bit less possession and a bit more mayhem, particularly against the likely title challengers.

In that scenario, I can well imagine a goalkeeper like Donnarumma would be preferable to an Ederson.

I do know that I can’t wait to see him in action (hopefully not too much, though).
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Cheers. Certainly possible - but as I've already expressed I don't think so.

Agree - it'll be revelatory once we see Donnarumma start. You might well be right - who knows?
 
Goater101 said:
James Trafford isn’t exactly like Pirlo on the ball is he? Not sure why everyone was so settled on Trafford being number one and writing off a proven winner/leader with tonnes of big game experience like Donnarumma. I’m sure Pep has a plan. Let’s see.
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Donnarumma can pass the ball just fine. He can't ping it down the pitch onto a postage stamp like Eddie, but how often did that actually happen? It's not something we need to rely on tactically and at the height of our dominance most sides were letting Eddie keep the ball rather than press him because they knew it was pointless and were essentially committing a man and losing their shape for no purpose. So they stood off and made him play it short where they could then look to press.

What Donnarumma will do is hoof it up the pitch or out of play if he has to. And that's fine. It's not something you'd expect a Pep side to do but there's been an almost rugby union shift to territory and the set piece in the last couple of years. Teams are happy to give the opposition a throw in deep in their half and then look to box them in and win the ball back high up the pitch as opposed to high risk possession football by their own goal. The focus on set pieces has increased. People see these things as minor percentages and not typical of Pep but who knows what direction we go down.

And the final and most critical point is that Pep wanted Donnarumma years ago and considers him to be capable of improving his passing game. This signing wouldn't have been sanctioned without Pep's input so let's see how it goes.
 
Shame you signed him so late, would have loved to see one of my Azzurri boys at Molineux the other week
 
BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
That's part of the equation for sure. Another part is that Donnarumma is demanding huge wages that don't fit PSG's system. And finally, PSG are built on a system that employs high press and ball retention. Donnarumma doesn't fit that system.

PSG were obviously coping with Donnarumma's poor ability to pass. They have a back line that - when passing from the back - are always nearby to present passing opportunities. Under pressure - all of PSG's back line are excellent on the ball and consistently make good passing decisions.

Meanwhile we have Dias - above average but not excellent at passing - Ait Nouri - a disaster on defense - and Lewis/Nevas - not great on defense or reading the game or lacking pace to get back on defense and so on. Stones and

Bottom line - PSG were able to carry Donnarumma - overcoming his distributional weaknesses while capitalizing on his in the box excellent shot stopping - but we aren't even close to being able to do so. Gvardiol and Stones at least meat the on-ball ability to carry Donnarumma if we want to build from the back - but that's a LB and RB short and that's assuming that we start both Gvardiol and Stones.
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Have to say for such a long post, the accusations are premature to say the least.

All this playing out from the back. City have not done it to an acceptable level now for 18 months with Ederson in goal.

Why don’t you wait and see how it unfolds before making such widespread statements that have no factual evidence to support.

Your opinion could and probably will look silly in a few weeks. Above all else, city need a goalkeeper who can keep the ball out of the net.
 
People can have an opinion or worry on how we might play or set up with a change in keeper such as this. Nobody can say with certain what is going to happen though. It is a big shift but I feel that is needed with this team now, a change is needed and I am hopeful it is for the better.
 
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