What has the UK become under the far right influence?

The perfect fumble said:
No, they are anti what they perceive immigration has become, a threat not just for resources, houses and whatnot, but an existential threat to the country they think they live in and consequently their own identity. There are racists that are exploiting this and fanning those fears, let's state that from the get go, but they've never had this level of traction before and that traction comes from a mass rejection of multiculturalism.

What these flags represent is a political statement that states in no uncertain terms that there's an indigenous population in this country, that there is an over arching culture and those that choose to live here must recognise that fact. That citizenship brings with it benefits yes, but it also brings obligations and those obligations should include a commitment to integrate into the prevailing culture and to learn English. Cultural identities are sacrosanct but only insofar as they comply with the laws of the land.

Cultural festivals, religious worship, have at it, great, we're a free country, but that country is Britain and it's more than just a land mass. Less diversity is our strength, it's not, it's a lie and too few folk believe it. More unity is our strength and that must come with a new social contract between the people and the state based on honesty and the pursuit of common purpose. Less all cultures are equal, they're not and certainly not in a country with an over arching culture like ours, less DEI and more "When in Rome".

If "progressive" folk in here don't like it, fine, do nothing and see how that works out, as I stated earlier if reasonable people's reasonable demands are not addressed reasonably they end up being addressed unreasonably.
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I have been saying for a long time that the main reason farage has got into the position he is in is because of the complete inability of the left, specifically the middle class left, to recognise there are issues with immigration that are valid. I've been around it and experienced it first hand myself. That inability to have a proper discussion has enabled people like farage and yaxley-lennon to set the tone of the conversation. You jumped to some very quick assumptions about my 'progressiveness'. But I am also in zero doubt that the people putting flags up are doing it to be dicks, and that was my original point, which I stand by.
 
bluejon said:
I have been saying for a long time that the main reason farage has got into the position he is in is because of the complete inability of the left, specifically the middle class left, to recognise there are issues with immigration that are valid. I've been around it and experienced it first hand myself. That inability to have a proper discussion has enabled people like farage and yaxley-lennon to set the tone of the conversation. You jumped to some very quick assumptions about my 'progressiveness'. But I am also in zero doubt that the people putting flags up are doing it to be dicks, and that was my original point, which I stand by.
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Fair enough.

You are right, I might well have jumped to a hasty assumption. In my defence when you get accused of being a white nationalist and a racist multiple times ones patience wears a bit thin.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Fair enough.

You are right, I might well have jumped to a hasty assumption. In my defence when you get accused of being a white nationalist and a racist multiple times ones patience wears a bit thin.
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Behaviours on either extreme are incredibly similar. People who think anyone waving a flag or still want to see a cultural identity being a uniting position and equating them all to be the same as the racist extremists are just as binary in their thinking as those that don’t recognise the left or think that someone that advocates multiculturalism can’t also agree that cultural identity is still important.

The problem now is whenever someone sways slightly one way or the other, someone else comes along and has to put them into the “other camp”. They then react by acting similarly and before you know it, everyone’s at the extremes. That or they look for advocating views and end up down a rabbit hole with everything else.

You’re clearly neither of those things you’ve been accused of.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
You're all arguing fundamental politics, who is right who is wrong. Just doesn't matter. The country is going to vote in Reform. The current and previous govns have just not listened. That's the problem.

In future they will hopefully, if Farage doesn't fuck it all up.
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The country won't be voting Reform into power. They could be the largest party in Westminster, given current voting intentions if that lasts until the next election, but their predicted gain of 200 MP's is way too short for an overall majority, and they will have no choice other than seek a coalition with other parties in order to govern.

The problem Reform face with that scenario is, other than the tories, that may or may not join forces with them with their 50 or so MP's, is the other parties. With many more MP's than those two combined refusing to enter into a coalition with them on ideological grounds, they have zero chance of forming a government.
 
bluejon said:
I have been saying for a long time that the main reason farage has got into the position he is in is because of the complete inability of the left, specifically the middle class left, to recognise there are issues with immigration that are valid. I've been around it and experienced it first hand myself. That inability to have a proper discussion has enabled people like farage and yaxley-lennon to set the tone of the conversation. You jumped to some very quick assumptions about my 'progressiveness'. But I am also in zero doubt that the people putting flags up are doing it to be dicks, and that was my original point, which I stand by.
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It's also the inability of the left to implement any left-wing solutions to these problems, because they're married to neo-liberal economics. People turn to blaming immigration because they've seen their own circumstances get worse over their lifetime. House prices skyrocketing and real-term wages stagnating. We could have solutions like encouraging unionization and strengthening the ability of ordinary people to negotiate better conditions, or implementing a land value tax that makes it unfavourable to buy houses as an investment pushing up prices for those who want to buy them as a home. But no, we can't have those things, because it might harm the investments of a handful of rich wankers (plenty of whom are in Parliament themselves). So what do people turn to? What those same rich wankers tell them is the problem - too many immigrants, in a tale as old as time.
 
NPBlue said:
The country won't be voting Reform into power. They could be the largest party in Westminster, given current voting intentions if that lasts until the next election, but their predicted gain of 200 MP's is way too short for an overall majority, and they will have no choice other than seek a coalition with other parties in order to govern.

The problem Reform face with that scenario is, other than the tories, that may or may not join forces with them with their 50 or so MP's, is the other parties. With many more MP's than those two combined refusing to enter into a coalition with them on ideological grounds, they have zero chance of forming a government.
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Don't underestimate the lack of morals of power-hungry politicians when the chance to be the ruling party, even as part of a coalition, presents itself. Just ask the Lib Dems.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
It's also the inability of the left to implement any left-wing solutions to these problems, because they're married to neo-liberal economics. People turn to blaming immigration because they've seen their own circumstances get worse over their lifetime. House prices skyrocketing and real-term wages stagnating. We could have solutions like encouraging unionization and strengthening the ability of ordinary people to negotiate better conditions, or implementing a land value tax that makes it unfavourable to buy houses as an investment pushing up prices for those who want to buy them as a home. But no, we can't have those things, because it might harm the investments of a handful of rich wankers (plenty of whom are in Parliament themselves). So what do people turn to? What those same rich wankers tell them is the problem - too many immigrants, in a tale as old as time.
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In fairness, I watched Zack Polanski, the Green's new leader tell a Sky interviewer that immigration was NOT a problem. How out of touch can you possibly be and I do not think he is rich! Many people vote on their instincts rather than ideology. The mistake virtually everybody commentating on politics makes is to assume those 'instincts' are malleable and that everybody but themselves are stupid.
 
Palerider said:
In fairness, I watched Zack Polanski, the Green's new leader tell a Sky interviewer that immigration was NOT a problem. How out of touch can you possibly be and I do not think he is rich! Many people vote on their instincts rather than ideology. The mistake virtually everybody commentating on politics makes is to assume those 'instincts' are malleable and that everybody but themselves are stupid.
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The thing with immigration though is that the solutions are pretty counter-intuitive, assuming you accept that some immigration is necessary for business to function. People think that the solution is the toughen rules, charge them more, make them jump through more hoops, but all that does is turn temporary migrants doing seasonal work into permanent ones (Why pay all that money to go home after 6 months?). The number of Moroccans settling in Spain massively increased when the EU made them tighten up their rules when free movement was introduced. Before that, people would come up to do a bit of farm work for a few months and then go back to Morocco. Suddenly, all of these same people needed to apply for long-term residency to access the same economic benefits, and so that's exactly what they did.

The other issue with such things is that strict rules can make migrants a preferable employee. American employers are known to hire migrants because the strict visa regulations and massive costs involved with moving basically make it impossible for them to quit without losing everything, meaning that they can pay them well below market rate and treat them like shit. If migrants had the same rights as everyone else and hadn't had to sell a kidney to get there, they ironically wouldn't be as interesting a prospect for the employers and those jobs would go to locals who have no communication barriers or annoying visa paperwork to deal with.

But it's very difficult to make this kind of nuanced argument in the modern era of 30 second sound bites and wilful misunderstanding of political opponents.
 
Cops will have their hands full this weekend.

The football fixtures are bad enough. Add this protest and it’s got the potential to be nasty.

I was in London last year with my wife and daughter and stumbled into that protest. It was very toxic.
 
People like this deserve a long long time in prison - oh and what the father did to his kids was grooming. you know like the thing they think only brown Muslim men do

www.lbc.co.uk

Neo-Nazi family whose music called for racial violence jailed | LBC

A neo-Nazi music producer and his two children who created and distributed songs that called for people to "paint the walls with n***** blood" have been jailed.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk
 
bluethrunthru said:
People like this deserve a long long time in prison - oh and what the father did to his kids was grooming. you know like the thing they think only brown Muslim men do

www.lbc.co.uk

Neo-Nazi family whose music called for racial violence jailed | LBC

A neo-Nazi music producer and his two children who created and distributed songs that called for people to "paint the walls with n***** blood" have been jailed.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk
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First 2 sentences spot on.
last one nonsensical
 
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