Crumpsall Synagogue Attack - two people confirmed dead, one inadvertently shot by police along with the suspect

SWP's back said:
I totally agree with you, I’m just pointing out that matches against Israel don’t equate to marches against Judaism, or shouldn’t.
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You're the last person I'd have accused of naivety Sam. Did you see the reports of that protest in London yesterday? They were quoting one of the organisers as saying that the detention of Thunberg (they used the word 'kidnapping') was more concerning than the murder of Jews. They then went on to say"I don't care about the Jewish community".

If you wanted to clearly separate support for Palestinians from hatred for Jews, then you'd cancel that protest because of the optics. But they have no decency and you can bet at least some in the mob would have explicitly been celebrating that action in Crumpsall. Even if it's not explicit, it implicitly looks like they are celebrating it.

You only need to look at this thread. How many foaming-at-the-mouth critics of Israel in other threads have been on this one to express any sympathies for thr victims? That should tell you everything.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
You're the last person I'd have accused of naivety Sam. Did you see the reports of that protest in London yesterday? They were quoting one of the organisers as saying that the detention of Thunberg (they used the word 'kidnapping') was more concerning than the murder of Jews. They then went on to say"I don't care about the Jewish community".

If you wanted to clearly separate support for Palestinians from hatred for Jews, then you'd cancel that protest because of the optics. But they have no decency and you can bet at least some in the mob would have explicitly been celebrating that action in Crumpsall. Even if it's not explicit, it implicitly looks like they are celebrating it.

You only need to look at this thread. How many foaming-at-the-mouth critics of Israel in other threads have been on this one to express any sympathies for thr victims? That should tell you everything.
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Sadly I fear you’re not far from the truth here.
 
The amount of blatant anti semitism and pure hatred towards Jewish people is rife now. In large parts of Manchester, the uk and all over social media. Its starting to feel like history is repeating itself again.

Idiots seem to be unable to separate the actions of a government to innocent people, who have nothing to do with it. I’d like to think the majority of brits understand this and we need to stand with the Jewish community and stop this hatred that’s getting worse
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
You're the last person I'd have accused of naivety Sam. Did you see the reports of that protest in London yesterday? They were quoting one of the organisers as saying that the detention of Thunberg (they used the word 'kidnapping') was more concerning than the murder of Jews. They then went on to say"I don't care about the Jewish community".

If you wanted to clearly separate support for Palestinians from hatred for Jews, then you'd cancel that protest because of the optics. But they have no decency and you can bet at least some in the mob would have explicitly been celebrating that action in Crumpsall. Even if it's not explicit, it implicitly looks like they are celebrating it.

You only need to look at this thread. How many foaming-at-the-mouth critics of Israel in other threads have been on this one to express any sympathies for thr victims? That should tell you everything.
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I am very critical of Netanyahu’s policies even if I don’t ’foam at the mouth.’ Everybody needs to clearly separate in their minds the Israeli gov and ‘Jews’ which are clearly not the same thing. Sadly, this seems to be beyond so many. Many British Jews are very critical of Israel’s gov. I remember you saying you had some Zionist friends who looked askance at Netanyahu’s actions. My late stepmother was an Orthodox Jew from Cheetham Hill and I wouldn’t describe her as a friend of Israel. Oh, and she was a rag!
 
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LangleyBlue1970 said:
Might be an idea to close the thread. It’s becoming nonsense now.
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It was always going to end this way, it's sad to say that the Jews are and will be getting it in the neck for some time . I remember when the attacks happened at the concert and some people still couldn't face thinking about the murdered people.

IMHO it's time we got tougher on the people who believe that Jew hating is the in vogue thing to do.
 
KS55 said:
I am very critical of Netanyahu’s policies even if I don’t ’foam at the mouth.’ Everybody needs to clearly separate in their minds the Israeli gov and ‘Jews’ which are clearly not the same thing. Sadly, this seems to be beyond so many. Many British Jews are very critical of Israel’s gov. I remember you saying you had some Zionist friends who looked askance at Netanyahu’s actions. My late stepmother was an Orthodox Jew from Cheetham Hill and I wouldn’t describe her as a friend of Israel. Oh, and she was a rag!
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Yeah, I find it very difficult to comprehend how anyone is unable to separate the two to be honest. It's entirely possible to be critical of Netanyahu and his government while at the same time be horrified at yesterday's attack and have the utmost empathy for the Jewish community. And as you say, there are plenty of Jewish people over here who don't support what the Israeli government is doing in Gaza.

Another sad thing about yesterday is that it happened in an area where Jews and Muslims have lived side by side for decades without any major issues.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I'll go further. The owner of this forum posted that this thread was only to be used to express sympathy for the victims, and posts (including mine) were removed.
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To be fair to the owner of the forum I think you’ll find I was the one who asked people to just use this thread for sympathy and empathy. Yes @Ric agreed with me and did say he had been going to post similar.
I think you’d agree that I try to be fair to everyone and if I ever upset someone I apologise immediately.
I said in my post that there were other threads for the posts that weren’t sympathetic. I apologise if you didn’t agree but I don’t apologise for saying it. Yesterday was a day for sympathy for the victims of a disgraceful and heartbreaking attack. IMHO
 
KS55 said:
I am very critical of Netanyahu’s policies even if I don’t ’foam at the mouth.’ Everybody needs to clearly separate in their minds the Israeli gov and ‘Jews’ which are clearly not the same thing.
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You should be able to hold a position of sympathy and disgust for what happened yesterday but, be strongly opposed to the actions of the Israeli government.

Unfortunately, for a large majority they think you need to pick a side to hate.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
You're the last person I'd have accused of naivety Sam. Did you see the reports of that protest in London yesterday? They were quoting one of the organisers as saying that the detention of Thunberg (they used the word 'kidnapping') was more concerning than the murder of Jews. They then went on to say"I don't care about the Jewish community".

If you wanted to clearly separate support for Palestinians from hatred for Jews, then you'd cancel that protest because of the optics. But they have no decency and you can bet at least some in the mob would have explicitly been celebrating that action in Crumpsall. Even if it's not explicit, it implicitly looks like they are celebrating it.

You only need to look at this thread. How many foaming-at-the-mouth critics of Israel in other threads have been on this one to express any sympathies for thr victims? That should tell you everything.
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Funny PB that none of the pro Gaza protests held in Whitehall, Edinburgh, Manchester and many more locations yesterday evening receive any attention from the captured media. I wonder why?

I have stated before on this forum my wife and our 3 children are jewish with our youngest being the most observant of his faith. Our youngest is at university and is active in the UJS on campus. However, the meeting/ gatherings the UJS have are held almost in secret at the suggestion of the pastoral department to ensure their safety. How the hell as a modern society have we arrived at a point where jewish students have to gather in secret to avoid confrontation or worse? We all no the answer but there's only some of us willing to call it out!!

I can't remember who wrote the following but it's very profound and reflective of the current state of the UK. "The jews are the mine Canary birds of society, when they start dying its start to worry as they are the first but won't be the last".
 
Brooklands Blue said:
Funny PB that none of the pro Gaza protests held in Whitehall, Edinburgh, Manchester and many more locations yesterday evening receive any attention from the captured media. I wonder why?

I have stated before on this forum my wife and our 3 children are jewish with our youngest being the most observant of his faith. Our youngest is at university and is active in the UJS on campus. However, the meeting/ gatherings the UJS have are held almost in secret at the suggestion of the pastoral department to ensure their safety. How the hell as a modern society have we arrived at a point where jewish students have to gather in secret to avoid confrontation or worse? We all no the answer but there's only some of us willing to call it out!!

I can't remember who wrote the following but it's very profound and reflective of the current state of the UK. "The jews are the mine Canary birds of society, when they start dying its start to worry as they are the first but won't be the last".
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I read about those protests in the media, so they were covered. And there was a bigger story up in Crumpsall to be fair.

But while we had challenges as Jewish students in my day, we could meet openly without fear. As someone said, the Holocaust didn't start with firing squads and gas chambers. It started with words.
 
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