Crumpsall Synagogue Attack - two people confirmed dead, one inadvertently shot by police along with the suspect

[Prestwich_Blue]

I couldn’t disagree more strongly Colin. What happened in Crumpsall is as tragic as it is horrendous, but it’s not even one percent of what Israel are doing daily to civilians in Gaza.

Yes, the two are and should be separate, but it’s you that’s equating an abhorrence of Israel’s actions with a hatred of Jews, not I.

And that's exactly what's happening. People are using Israel's actions as an excuse to kill Jews in Manchester. I have no doubt we're pretty well on the same side here though, so I'll leave it there.

 

[gingerprince]

one may ask why the police needed to shoot him? he was in possession of a knife...the report was he had used a car and stabbed somebody? but he was holding a knife and had a belt carrying susp items...

people dont get shot in this country for just carrying a knife or even using it-unless a risk to life exists..

it is quite possible that either the suspect led them to beleive it was a viable device or he was shouting that..and thats why they had little option..at that moment

I've not seen all the images or videos.

The video I saw was of the officers watching the perpetrator slowing getting up off the ground and then shooting him dead [blacked out] but at that point he wasn't at a doorway it seemed how were the innocent people accidently shot at
that time or was there a previous engagement at the doorway?

 

[SWP's back]

And that's exactly what's happening. People are using Israel's actions as an excuse to kill Jews in Manchester. I have no doubt we're pretty well on the same side here though, so I'll leave it there.

But looking at the suspect and seeing his name, he needed no excuse to carry out his attacks any more than the arsehole could blame Ariana Grande’s singing and acting as a reason for blowing up a dozen kids at the MEN Arena.

There are sick radicalised people in this world bud. ‘Twas ever thus.

 

[supercity88]

Also, I said this on Twitter earlier but if my lad tells me a new German lad has joined his class and he's called Adolf then I'm absolutely judging his parents.

That lad was called Jihad. Probably went through tons of official documents from immigration to child benefit and work forms etc. But of common sense needed hey?

This came up in France where courts have accepted the name Jihad. They did prevent a child being named Nutella though.

And yes, the parents should still be judged.

For clarity though "Jihad" in Arabic means "effort" or "struggle", not specifically "holy war". Depending how old they were, their name possibly pre-dates the more recent use of the word.

 

[Damocles]

But looking at the suspect and seeing his name, he needed no excuse to carry out his attacks any more than the arsehole could blame Ariana Grande’s singing and acting as a reason for blowing up a dozen kids at the MEN Arena.

There are sick radicalised people in this world bud. ‘Twas ever thus.

Cunts are cunts. The idea that some twat was "taking revenge" for Gaza to a bunch of innocent Jews in Manchester is the refuge of the scoundrel. Timebomb bombs will always blow up. If it wasn't Gaza it would have been something else.

 

[Damocles]

For clarity though "Jihad" in Arabic means "effort" or "struggle", not specifically "holy war". Depending how old they were, their name possibly pre-dates the more recent use of the word.

He was born in 1990, the Islamist uprising in Syria started in 1976 and was referred to as a Jihad.

As I said mate, maybe its innocent. I'm just saying that we should probably look at that with some common sense. I don't reckon young Jihad was growing up in 2005 and thinking that he wanted to be Prime Minister.

 

[supercity88]

But looking at the suspect and seeing his name, he needed no excuse to carry out his attacks any more than the arsehole could blame Ariana Grande’s singing and acting as a reason for blowing up a dozen kids at the MEN Arena.

There are sick radicalised people in this world bud. ‘Twas ever thus.

Sadly though, you could go and see another pop star at another gig with your kids and whilst it would be on your mind, you'd unlikely feel like you were truly at risk. Jews in this country are very much feeling unsafe as a result of the rising antisemitism - there was security at their place of worship! The majority of people, quite rightly, don't see the Israeli government's actions as justification to dislike Jews in this country. But you can be sure a growing minority do. History shows us that antisemitism escalates rapidly.

 

[paulchapo]

I've not seen all the images or videos.

The video I saw was of the officers watching the perpetrator slowing getting up off the ground and then shooting him dead [blacked out] but at that point he wasn't at a doorway it seemed how were the innocent people accidently shot at
that time or was there a previous engagement at the doorway?

The picture I've posted clearly shows him standing outside the door holding a knife and something in his other hand.You can also see what looks like some explosive device hanging from him. Behind the door you can see people looking through the windows. It looks like they were barricading the door. The police probably opened fire fearing he was going to detonate what looked like the explosive device. That's probably when whoever was behind the door was also shot.

I saw a video filmed by a member of the public. The terrorist is on the floor possibly after being shot. ( It is rumoured he was wearing a bullet proof vest ) The police are shouting for people to get back. The terrorist then starts moving about and trying to get to his feet. Somebody in the crowd is shouting to shoot him as he has a bomb and is going to detonate it. A few seconds later the police open fire ( apparently shooting him in the head ) so killing him.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Cunts are cunts. The idea that some twat was "taking revenge" for Gaza to a bunch of innocent Jews in Manchester is the refuge of the scoundrel. Timebomb bombs will always blow up. If it wasn't Gaza it would have been something else.

The two most heinous acts in Jewish history were the Roman crushing of the Jewish revolt in 79AD and the Holocaust, both of which involved the deaths of about a third of the global Jewish population at those times.

People have never needed an excuse to kill Jews, other than they exist.

 

[Damocles]

The two most heinous acts in Jewish history were the Roman crushing of the Jewish revolt n 79AD and the Holocaust, both of which involved the deaths of about a third of the global Jewish population at those times.

People have never needed an excuse to kill Jews, other than they exist.

Well thats your own fault for not being white protestant Anglo saxons. Brought it on yourselves :-s

 

[Marklr]

People like Musk, Trump and Farage will be loving what happened here....it's what they want. "See, I told you" bullshit.
But it's the opposite in that area...this will bring the communities even closer together. Cheetham Hill and the surrounding area sets an example of how different cultures DO live side by side.

 

[Bigga]

This came up in France where courts have accepted the name Jihad. They did prevent a child being named Nutella though.

And yes, the parents should still be judged.

For clarity though "Jihad" in Arabic means "effort" or "struggle", not specifically "holy war". Depending how old they were, their name possibly pre-dates the more recent use of the word.

I think it's one of the most dense things I've seen in a long time! To think a name shapes who you are as a person from birth!

How many Michaels, Johns, Garys or Tims etc., in existence that have gone on to murder or mass murder? So, do we look at everyone with a common name to their country be side eyed in relation to some f'k face who did a crime...?

 

[hilts]

Not sure that vigil was a great idea.

 

[paulchapo]

I think it's one of the most dense things I've seen in a long time! To think a name shapes who you are as a person from birth!

How many Michaels, Johns, Garys or Tims etc., in existence that have gone on to murder or mass murder? So, do we look at everyone with a common name to their country be side eyed in relation to some f'k face who did a crime...?

That brings to mind that 13 year old kid who was shot dead in Moss Side years ago and called Jesse James.

 

[BobKowalski]

I think it's one of the most dense things I've seen in a long time! To think a name shapes who you are as a person from birth!

How many Michaels, Johns, Garys or Tims etc., in existence that have gone on to murder or mass murder? So, do we look at everyone with a common name to their country be side eyed in relation to some f'k face who did a crime...?

Not the name perhaps, but the parents giving you a particular name will have influence in shaping you as a person.

 

[mexico1970]

Care to list some examples of people doing that and what do you mean by “getting tougher”?

I'm quite prepared for losing some of my civil liberties of it means that some if this fuckwittery is put into its place, it does appear to be the next great push from these people who over react to any global phenomenon they take up with their morning iced latte,

Where is it happening ?
Where is it happening?
Have I got examples?

How we’re protecting Jewish students on university campuses – The Education Hub

The unfolding tragedy in the Middle East is having devastating consequences. Israel suffered the worst terror attack in its history, and Palestinian civilians in Gaza are experiencing a growing humanitarian crisis. Following the attacks by Hamas on 7 October in

educationhub.blog.gov.uk

Jewish students at UK universities 'deeply anxious', union warns

Both antisemitic and islamophobic abuse is rising at universities, experts tell the BBC.

www.bbc.co.uk

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It only needed an excuse like this conflict for SOME people to embed themselves into rallies etc , as someone above stated not every rally attender is antisemitic bust most antisemitic are right there.

By punishment I would like to see stiffer and more frequent jail sentences, we have already lost the "We live in a free speech country" argument might as well apply the law (For what it is) evenly.

The govt should take the front foot.

"Here's the law".

"Break it and here's your prize for doing so".

 

[supercity88]

I think it's one of the most dense things I've seen in a long time! To think a name shapes who you are as a person from birth!

How many Michaels, Johns, Garys or Tims etc., in existence that have gone on to murder or mass murder? So, do we look at everyone with a common name to their country be side eyed in relation to some f'k face who did a crime...?

From the guy who didn't realise Foden was any good that's probably the most offensive comment this forum has ever witnessed ;)

I was writing in relation to someone who said if a kid was called Adolf they'd judge the parents. I explained that Jihad doesn't have a single meaning that the west has come to expect.

I've taken the below from a BBC article - I think you can judge the parents, as I said!

In 2013 a mother in the French city of Nimes was given a one-month suspended jail term and a €2,000 (£1,783; $2,353) fine after sending her three-year-old boy called Jihad to school in a T-shirt bearing the words "I am a bomb" and "Jihad, born on 11 September".

The sentence was for the "provocative" T-shirt, which referenced the 9/11 terror attacks in the US, but not for the name "Jihad".

In 2015 a French court prevented a couple from naming their baby girl Nutella after the hazelnut spread, ruling that it would make her a laughing stock. The judge ordered that the child be called Ella instead.

 

[Bigga]

Not the name perhaps, but the parents giving you a particular name will have influence in shaping you as a person.

Anyone who looks at the name 'Jihad' and sees an issue is looking at that name from Western media's fear mongering.

Do you know what else means 'struggle'? Agnes/ Agatha, Miles/ Milo, Eleanor. I think one can throw in Matilda in there too.

The family, themselves have condemned his actions.

Posted this morning:

"The family of the suspect in the attack, who has been named as Jihad al Shamie, have now released a statement in the last few minutes, condemning the act.

"The news from Manchester regarding the terrorist attack targeting a Jewish synagogue has been a profound shock to us," the statement said.

"The Al Shamie family in the UK and abroad strongly condemns this heinous act, which targeted peaceful, innocent civilians."

"We fully distance ourselves from this attack and express our deep shock and sorrow over what has happened," the suspect's relatives wrote on social media.

"Our hearts and thoughts are with the victims and their families, and we pray for their strength and comfort."

The family also asked media outlets to "respect the family’s privacy during this very difficult time and refrain from using this tragic event in any context that does not reflect the truth".

They add that they pray for the swift recovery of any injured victims.

The statement is signed by "Faraj Al Shamie, The Al Shamie Family UK and Abroad"

So, taking this into the current context of information we have, that rules out influence from the family until further information is, possibly, uncovered.

 

[Bigga]

From the guy who didn't realise Foden was any good that's probably the most offensive comment this forum has ever witnessed ;)

I was writing in relation to someone who said if a kid was called Adolf they'd judge the parents. I explained that Jihad doesn't have a single meaning that the west has come to expect.

I've taken the below from a BBC article - I think you can judge the parents, as I said!

In 2013 a mother in the French city of Nimes was given a one-month suspended jail term and a €2,000 (£1,783; $2,353) fine after sending her three-year-old boy called Jihad to school in a T-shirt bearing the words "I am a bomb" and "Jihad, born on 11 September".

The sentence was for the "provocative" T-shirt, which referenced the 9/11 terror attacks in the US, but not for the name "Jihad".

In 2015 a French court prevented a couple from naming their baby girl Nutella after the hazelnut spread, ruling that it would make her a laughing stock. The judge ordered that the child be called Ella instead.

Firstly, you misconstrued what I said about Foden.

Secondly, parents can be cnuts for their own purposes.

David Bowie called his kid 'Zowie' ffs. The kid changed it at his own behest.

A name doesn't shape who you are.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Fat bastard Pickles on Sky now god I hate that man.