United Thread | 2025/26

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Long article from the Times today,I think it’s worth it to hear and feel the pain in the yesterday men’s assessment of Yoonitid,enjoy..Cityfication indeed….

Tucked away on a side street in northeast Manchester, not far from where Newton Heath played before they became Manchester United, sits another reminder of the club’s past.

During its peak years in the 1980s and 90s, Sharp’s warehouse on Thorp Road used to be a hive of activity, with dozens of workers assembling and storing all sorts of electrical equipment.

Sharp became United’s first club sponsor in 1982 and the deal lasted some 18 years. Since Sharp decided to relocate to London in 2005, the 200,000 sq ft warehouse has been repurposed and it now holds 60 high-tech blocks that are rented by digital businesses.


Fletcher, the under-18 coach, is a rare link between the present United and their illustrious past.
For the past two hours, Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes have been chatting about United — and other topics — with Paddy McGuinness, who hosts their new podcast The Good, The Bad & The Football, but the two 50-year-olds still have enough petrol in the tank to keep on talking about their old club.

As was the case during their playing days, Butt and Scholes complement each other well. They have a similar take on most matters, and they do not hold back on criticism of the club.

They agree that Ruben Amorim, the club’s head coach, is running out of time. “It [Amorim’s sacking] is going to happen sooner or later. I can’t see it turning around,” Butt says. They also accept that United bought some duds over the past few years and, most alarmingly to them, feel that the club is losing its identity right before their eyes.

More specifically, they are worried about the supposed Manchester City-fication of United after a number of their rivals crossed town to move to Old Trafford.
Amorim has something of a free hit against Liverpool but failure to win subsequent fixtures will soon put the focus back on his future.

“You’ve got [director of football] Jason Wilcox, [chief executive] Omar Berrada, then there’s others [who previously worked at City],” Scholes says. “I don’t think Manchester United should do that.

“City have been good for the past ten years, so we hope they bring a bit of that, but it’s not what a Manchester United person would want. It’s not what we want and it’s probably not what the fans want either.

“You talk about DNA, there’s nobody there who knows what a Manchester United person is. Darren Fletcher [the under-18s coach] is the only one who knows anything about what it’s like to be a Manchester United player. And look, you don’t always have to be the best player, but you just have to have the balls to be able to play for the club, don’t you?”
Stephen Torpey, who coached under Wilcox in City’s academy before becoming academy director at Brentford, is the latest recruit who has a dash of blue on his CV. Ineos hired the former FC United player after United’s head of academy, Nick Cox, left to become Everton’s new technical director.

“It’s unbelievable,” Butt says. “Every City staff member goes to Man United now. Real Madrid wouldn’t do it with Barcelona or vice versa.
Butt believes that Casemiro and Maguire are no longer equipped for the rigours of Premier League football.

“If you have a DNA that’s solid, you should go and handpick the really good coaches — United did that with Kieran McKenna [now the manager of Ipswich Town]. You see a shining light at Tottenham and bring him in and he teaches you things, but right now there’s no one [from United’s history] except Darren Fletcher.”

Butt, sat next to Scholes, is at his most passionate when speaking about the United academy, partly because he — and Scholes — came off the fabled production line at The Cliff, but also because he was in charge of United’s youth set-up for nine years until he departed in 2021 and was replaced by Cox.

The United co-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe, the chairman of Ineos, told The Times last week that standards had “really slipped” in the academy and Butt clearly agrees with him, claiming that youngsters are merely taught about self-development, rather than winning.
“I’m sick to death of hearing people at Man United’s academy saying, ‘It’s not about winning. It’s about the experience,’ ” Butt says. “It f***ing is about winning, because if you’ve never won anything from 13 all the way up, how are you expected to go and win at the first team?
“You’ve got to develop winners, because if you don’t, you can’t play for a big club like Man United. And that’s the biggest thing I’ve noticed in the academy over the last so many years. I know it probably sounds like I’m saying this because I left, but it’s not. It’s about winning. And if it’s not about winning, they’re at the wrong football club.”

Arguably the biggest error, according to Butt and Scholes, came in 2024 when they sold McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount for Ugarte.

Cox had plenty of supporters in the club, but Butt’s viewpoint is, interestingly, shared by some staff members, who felt that his holistic approach was not producing enough youngsters capable of dealing with the pressures of playing for such a huge club.

On the other hand, the likes of Alejandro Garnacho and Kobbie Mainoo — both FA Youth Cup winners with United in 2022 — made the step up, although the former has since been sold to Chelsea and the latter is now out of favour under Amorim.

One area in which United are playing catch up, certainly with City, is academy sales.
“You need the academy to be producing talent all the time. It helps you financially,” Ratcliffe said, when speaking to The Business, a new podcast from The Times.
Last summer, Liverpool, United’s opponents on Sunday, agreed academy graduate sales that could eventually bring in up to £120million, whereas the only graduate United sold was Garnacho, who cost Chelsea £40million.
United did bring in £80.8million and £43.6million from academy player sales in the previous two summers, which is a big improvement on previous years, but City have been hitting such numbers for some time now, raising about £400million in academy sales since Pep Guardiola was appointed manager in 2016.
The growing number of senior figures at Old Trafford with past links to City, such as Berrada, concerns Butt and Scholes.

United have undersold some of their youngsters, too. A year after offloading Álvaro Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real Madrid paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back — a position United have struggled in — although United did receive £7.5million as part of a sell-on clause for the 22-year-old.

In the summer of 2023, United sold Dean Henderson, an England international goalkeeper, for only £1million more than Burnley paid City for 20-year-old James Trafford.
Arguably the biggest error came in 2024 when they sold Scott McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount to Paris Saint-Germain for Manuel Ugarte.

That academy sales are put down as “pure profit” on the balance sheet under Profitability & Sustainability Rules influenced United’s decision, but the careers of both players have gone in different directions since that summer.

“Scott would have run through a brick wall for United,” Butt says. “He knows the DNA of that football club and I would guess he was getting paid 50 per cent less than the one they brought in [Ugarte], and he is nowhere near the level of Scott McTominay.

“Scott’s not your highest earner, he’s not going to kill the wage structure, he’s not going to kill the dressing room, you keep him at all costs.”

Scholes nods his head, adding: “Look, I’m not saying you’re going to win the Premier League if he’s in your midfield every week, but he’s the type of player that you always have around the place.”
Scholes, left, and Butt, now both 50, show no holding back when it comes to matters concerning the decline of their former club
Casemiro, 33, is one of three players who Scholes feels is incapable of keeping up with the pace of Premier League football and he questioned the wisdom of agreeing a £70million deal with Real Madrid for his services three years ago.
“We got sucked into that one, and there’s been quite a few like that,” Scholes says.
Butt picks up the baton, adding: “Real Madrid don’t let their best players go. [Raphaël] Varane and Casemiro were both unbelievable players [earlier] in their career. They’ve done more than I’ve ever done, so it’s difficult to have a go at them, but Real Madrid don’t sell their top players to a European rival in Man United.”

Scholes feels that Harry Maguire, 32, and Luke Shaw, the 30-year-old injury-plagued defender, are also past their peak.

“Shaw, Maguire, Casemiro, they’ve all been great players but they’re at a stage of their career now where you get found out in the Premier League if you’re not physically good enough,” Scholes says.
A year after United sold Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back.

“Their bodies are not athletic enough, they’re not strong enough, they’re not quick enough. They’ve dropped to a level where they can’t cope with what’s needed in the Premier League.
“Every player in the Premier League is an absolute machine. They’ve got five per cent body fat, they can run, they’re strong, they can head it. Manchester United are carrying two or three players that are just not capable of living with it.”
We have seen glimpses of improvement at times from Amorim’s squad. They were the better team — but still lost — against Arsenal on the opening weekend of the season and they should have put Fulham to bed in the first half the following Sunday, when they surrendered a lead to draw 1-1. In the first half of the wins over Chelsea and Sunderland, they played some exciting, attacking football too, but signs of mental fragility are costing them and that is highlighted by them not winning successive Premier League matches since April 2024.
“At the minute, the confidence is so low, they’re all shit-scared of even getting the ball to their feet,” Butt said.
All of which leads us back to one man — Amorim. The Liverpool game is something of a free hit for him, but they must win at home against Brighton & Hove Albion and then away to Nottingham Forest and Tottenham Hotspur before the next international break if Amorim is to strengthen his future.
Butt, like Scholes, is not a fan of the 3-4-2-1 system that Amorim uses, and feels the 40-year-old’s stubbornness in that respect is likely to cause his downfall.
“If me and Scholesy were in charge, we’d say, right our job’s on the line here and we’ve got to get some wins somehow,” Butt says. “And it’s not working, the system, so my thought would be, let’s go and get two or three results any way we can, but he’s gone so far now [by advocating the system], that he can’t go back.

“He’s made a rod for his own back. Does he think he can turn it around? Or does he want to go back to Portugal or Spain or another club? I don’t know the answer to that. But it’s looking to me like it [Amorim leaving] is going to happen sooner or later.

“The manager seems to be so obsessed with playing this way and if he keeps it up, and does not win games, he won’t have a chance to do it because he’s going to be gone. It’s a fact.”

It clearly pains Scholes to put the boot in on Amorim — he knows the problems at United are deep-rooted — but he acknowledges that time is running out.
Butt and Scholes both came through United’s academy and still hold the club dear to their hearts.
“If you don’t win games, you [Amorim] will lose your job. It’s getting to that point now,” Scholes says.
After what feels like a cathartic quickfire chat, the studio lights come up, signalling the end of our allotted time with Scholes and Butt, who pose for selfies with fans on their way out of the old Sharp building.
They will be back in the studio on Monday to discuss United at length, no doubt, and they are praying for once that they do not have to debate yet another morale-sapping defeat for the team they still hold dear to their hearts.
 
WEMBLEY76 said:
Long article from the Times today,I think it’s worth it to hear and feel the pain in the yesterday men’s assessment of Yoonitid,enjoy..Cityfication indeed….

Tucked away on a side street in northeast Manchester, not far from where Newton Heath played before they became Manchester United, sits another reminder of the club’s past.

During its peak years in the 1980s and 90s, Sharp’s warehouse on Thorp Road used to be a hive of activity, with dozens of workers assembling and storing all sorts of electrical equipment.

Sharp became United’s first club sponsor in 1982 and the deal lasted some 18 years. Since Sharp decided to relocate to London in 2005, the 200,000 sq ft warehouse has been repurposed and it now holds 60 high-tech blocks that are rented by digital businesses.


Fletcher, the under-18 coach, is a rare link between the present United and their illustrious past.
For the past two hours, Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes have been chatting about United — and other topics — with Paddy McGuinness, who hosts their new podcast The Good, The Bad & The Football, but the two 50-year-olds still have enough petrol in the tank to keep on talking about their old club.

As was the case during their playing days, Butt and Scholes complement each other well. They have a similar take on most matters, and they do not hold back on criticism of the club.

They agree that Ruben Amorim, the club’s head coach, is running out of time. “It [Amorim’s sacking] is going to happen sooner or later. I can’t see it turning around,” Butt says. They also accept that United bought some duds over the past few years and, most alarmingly to them, feel that the club is losing its identity right before their eyes.

More specifically, they are worried about the supposed Manchester City-fication of United after a number of their rivals crossed town to move to Old Trafford.
Amorim has something of a free hit against Liverpool but failure to win subsequent fixtures will soon put the focus back on his future.

“You’ve got [director of football] Jason Wilcox, [chief executive] Omar Berrada, then there’s others [who previously worked at City],” Scholes says. “I don’t think Manchester United should do that.

“City have been good for the past ten years, so we hope they bring a bit of that, but it’s not what a Manchester United person would want. It’s not what we want and it’s probably not what the fans want either.

“You talk about DNA, there’s nobody there who knows what a Manchester United person is. Darren Fletcher [the under-18s coach] is the only one who knows anything about what it’s like to be a Manchester United player. And look, you don’t always have to be the best player, but you just have to have the balls to be able to play for the club, don’t you?”
Stephen Torpey, who coached under Wilcox in City’s academy before becoming academy director at Brentford, is the latest recruit who has a dash of blue on his CV. Ineos hired the former FC United player after United’s head of academy, Nick Cox, left to become Everton’s new technical director.

“It’s unbelievable,” Butt says. “Every City staff member goes to Man United now. Real Madrid wouldn’t do it with Barcelona or vice versa.
Butt believes that Casemiro and Maguire are no longer equipped for the rigours of Premier League football.

“If you have a DNA that’s solid, you should go and handpick the really good coaches — United did that with Kieran McKenna [now the manager of Ipswich Town]. You see a shining light at Tottenham and bring him in and he teaches you things, but right now there’s no one [from United’s history] except Darren Fletcher.”

Butt, sat next to Scholes, is at his most passionate when speaking about the United academy, partly because he — and Scholes — came off the fabled production line at The Cliff, but also because he was in charge of United’s youth set-up for nine years until he departed in 2021 and was replaced by Cox.

The United co-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe, the chairman of Ineos, told The Times last week that standards had “really slipped” in the academy and Butt clearly agrees with him, claiming that youngsters are merely taught about self-development, rather than winning.
“I’m sick to death of hearing people at Man United’s academy saying, ‘It’s not about winning. It’s about the experience,’ ” Butt says. “It f***ing is about winning, because if you’ve never won anything from 13 all the way up, how are you expected to go and win at the first team?
“You’ve got to develop winners, because if you don’t, you can’t play for a big club like Man United. And that’s the biggest thing I’ve noticed in the academy over the last so many years. I know it probably sounds like I’m saying this because I left, but it’s not. It’s about winning. And if it’s not about winning, they’re at the wrong football club.”

Arguably the biggest error, according to Butt and Scholes, came in 2024 when they sold McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount for Ugarte.

Cox had plenty of supporters in the club, but Butt’s viewpoint is, interestingly, shared by some staff members, who felt that his holistic approach was not producing enough youngsters capable of dealing with the pressures of playing for such a huge club.

On the other hand, the likes of Alejandro Garnacho and Kobbie Mainoo — both FA Youth Cup winners with United in 2022 — made the step up, although the former has since been sold to Chelsea and the latter is now out of favour under Amorim.

One area in which United are playing catch up, certainly with City, is academy sales.
“You need the academy to be producing talent all the time. It helps you financially,” Ratcliffe said, when speaking to The Business, a new podcast from The Times.
Last summer, Liverpool, United’s opponents on Sunday, agreed academy graduate sales that could eventually bring in up to £120million, whereas the only graduate United sold was Garnacho, who cost Chelsea £40million.
United did bring in £80.8million and £43.6million from academy player sales in the previous two summers, which is a big improvement on previous years, but City have been hitting such numbers for some time now, raising about £400million in academy sales since Pep Guardiola was appointed manager in 2016.
The growing number of senior figures at Old Trafford with past links to City, such as Berrada, concerns Butt and Scholes.

United have undersold some of their youngsters, too. A year after offloading Álvaro Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real Madrid paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back — a position United have struggled in — although United did receive £7.5million as part of a sell-on clause for the 22-year-old.

In the summer of 2023, United sold Dean Henderson, an England international goalkeeper, for only £1million more than Burnley paid City for 20-year-old James Trafford.
Arguably the biggest error came in 2024 when they sold Scott McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount to Paris Saint-Germain for Manuel Ugarte.

That academy sales are put down as “pure profit” on the balance sheet under Profitability & Sustainability Rules influenced United’s decision, but the careers of both players have gone in different directions since that summer.

“Scott would have run through a brick wall for United,” Butt says. “He knows the DNA of that football club and I would guess he was getting paid 50 per cent less than the one they brought in [Ugarte], and he is nowhere near the level of Scott McTominay.

“Scott’s not your highest earner, he’s not going to kill the wage structure, he’s not going to kill the dressing room, you keep him at all costs.”

Scholes nods his head, adding: “Look, I’m not saying you’re going to win the Premier League if he’s in your midfield every week, but he’s the type of player that you always have around the place.”
Scholes, left, and Butt, now both 50, show no holding back when it comes to matters concerning the decline of their former club
Casemiro, 33, is one of three players who Scholes feels is incapable of keeping up with the pace of Premier League football and he questioned the wisdom of agreeing a £70million deal with Real Madrid for his services three years ago.
“We got sucked into that one, and there’s been quite a few like that,” Scholes says.
Butt picks up the baton, adding: “Real Madrid don’t let their best players go. [Raphaël] Varane and Casemiro were both unbelievable players [earlier] in their career. They’ve done more than I’ve ever done, so it’s difficult to have a go at them, but Real Madrid don’t sell their top players to a European rival in Man United.”

Scholes feels that Harry Maguire, 32, and Luke Shaw, the 30-year-old injury-plagued defender, are also past their peak.

“Shaw, Maguire, Casemiro, they’ve all been great players but they’re at a stage of their career now where you get found out in the Premier League if you’re not physically good enough,” Scholes says.
A year after United sold Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back.

“Their bodies are not athletic enough, they’re not strong enough, they’re not quick enough. They’ve dropped to a level where they can’t cope with what’s needed in the Premier League.
“Every player in the Premier League is an absolute machine. They’ve got five per cent body fat, they can run, they’re strong, they can head it. Manchester United are carrying two or three players that are just not capable of living with it.”
We have seen glimpses of improvement at times from Amorim’s squad. They were the better team — but still lost — against Arsenal on the opening weekend of the season and they should have put Fulham to bed in the first half the following Sunday, when they surrendered a lead to draw 1-1. In the first half of the wins over Chelsea and Sunderland, they played some exciting, attacking football too, but signs of mental fragility are costing them and that is highlighted by them not winning successive Premier League matches since April 2024.
“At the minute, the confidence is so low, they’re all shit-scared of even getting the ball to their feet,” Butt said.
All of which leads us back to one man — Amorim. The Liverpool game is something of a free hit for him, but they must win at home against Brighton & Hove Albion and then away to Nottingham Forest and Tottenham Hotspur before the next international break if Amorim is to strengthen his future.
Butt, like Scholes, is not a fan of the 3-4-2-1 system that Amorim uses, and feels the 40-year-old’s stubbornness in that respect is likely to cause his downfall.
“If me and Scholesy were in charge, we’d say, right our job’s on the line here and we’ve got to get some wins somehow,” Butt says. “And it’s not working, the system, so my thought would be, let’s go and get two or three results any way we can, but he’s gone so far now [by advocating the system], that he can’t go back.

“He’s made a rod for his own back. Does he think he can turn it around? Or does he want to go back to Portugal or Spain or another club? I don’t know the answer to that. But it’s looking to me like it [Amorim leaving] is going to happen sooner or later.

“The manager seems to be so obsessed with playing this way and if he keeps it up, and does not win games, he won’t have a chance to do it because he’s going to be gone. It’s a fact.”

It clearly pains Scholes to put the boot in on Amorim — he knows the problems at United are deep-rooted — but he acknowledges that time is running out.
Butt and Scholes both came through United’s academy and still hold the club dear to their hearts.
“If you don’t win games, you [Amorim] will lose your job. It’s getting to that point now,” Scholes says.
After what feels like a cathartic quickfire chat, the studio lights come up, signalling the end of our allotted time with Scholes and Butt, who pose for selfies with fans on their way out of the old Sharp building.
They will be back in the studio on Monday to discuss United at length, no doubt, and they are praying for once that they do not have to debate yet another morale-sapping defeat for the team they still hold dear to their hearts.
Click to expand...
Moyes was right.
 
WEMBLEY76 said:
Long article from the Times today,I think it’s worth it to hear and feel the pain in the yesterday men’s assessment of Yoonitid,enjoy..Cityfication indeed….

Tucked away on a side street in northeast Manchester, not far from where Newton Heath played before they became Manchester United, sits another reminder of the club’s past.

During its peak years in the 1980s and 90s, Sharp’s warehouse on Thorp Road used to be a hive of activity, with dozens of workers assembling and storing all sorts of electrical equipment.

Sharp became United’s first club sponsor in 1982 and the deal lasted some 18 years. Since Sharp decided to relocate to London in 2005, the 200,000 sq ft warehouse has been repurposed and it now holds 60 high-tech blocks that are rented by digital businesses.


Fletcher, the under-18 coach, is a rare link between the present United and their illustrious past.
For the past two hours, Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes have been chatting about United — and other topics — with Paddy McGuinness, who hosts their new podcast The Good, The Bad & The Football, but the two 50-year-olds still have enough petrol in the tank to keep on talking about their old club.

As was the case during their playing days, Butt and Scholes complement each other well. They have a similar take on most matters, and they do not hold back on criticism of the club.

They agree that Ruben Amorim, the club’s head coach, is running out of time. “It [Amorim’s sacking] is going to happen sooner or later. I can’t see it turning around,” Butt says. They also accept that United bought some duds over the past few years and, most alarmingly to them, feel that the club is losing its identity right before their eyes.

More specifically, they are worried about the supposed Manchester City-fication of United after a number of their rivals crossed town to move to Old Trafford.
Amorim has something of a free hit against Liverpool but failure to win subsequent fixtures will soon put the focus back on his future.

“You’ve got [director of football] Jason Wilcox, [chief executive] Omar Berrada, then there’s others [who previously worked at City],” Scholes says. “I don’t think Manchester United should do that.

“City have been good for the past ten years, so we hope they bring a bit of that, but it’s not what a Manchester United person would want. It’s not what we want and it’s probably not what the fans want either.

“You talk about DNA, there’s nobody there who knows what a Manchester United person is. Darren Fletcher [the under-18s coach] is the only one who knows anything about what it’s like to be a Manchester United player. And look, you don’t always have to be the best player, but you just have to have the balls to be able to play for the club, don’t you?”
Stephen Torpey, who coached under Wilcox in City’s academy before becoming academy director at Brentford, is the latest recruit who has a dash of blue on his CV. Ineos hired the former FC United player after United’s head of academy, Nick Cox, left to become Everton’s new technical director.

“It’s unbelievable,” Butt says. “Every City staff member goes to Man United now. Real Madrid wouldn’t do it with Barcelona or vice versa.
Butt believes that Casemiro and Maguire are no longer equipped for the rigours of Premier League football.

“If you have a DNA that’s solid, you should go and handpick the really good coaches — United did that with Kieran McKenna [now the manager of Ipswich Town]. You see a shining light at Tottenham and bring him in and he teaches you things, but right now there’s no one [from United’s history] except Darren Fletcher.”

Butt, sat next to Scholes, is at his most passionate when speaking about the United academy, partly because he — and Scholes — came off the fabled production line at The Cliff, but also because he was in charge of United’s youth set-up for nine years until he departed in 2021 and was replaced by Cox.

The United co-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe, the chairman of Ineos, told The Times last week that standards had “really slipped” in the academy and Butt clearly agrees with him, claiming that youngsters are merely taught about self-development, rather than winning.
“I’m sick to death of hearing people at Man United’s academy saying, ‘It’s not about winning. It’s about the experience,’ ” Butt says. “It f***ing is about winning, because if you’ve never won anything from 13 all the way up, how are you expected to go and win at the first team?
“You’ve got to develop winners, because if you don’t, you can’t play for a big club like Man United. And that’s the biggest thing I’ve noticed in the academy over the last so many years. I know it probably sounds like I’m saying this because I left, but it’s not. It’s about winning. And if it’s not about winning, they’re at the wrong football club.”

Arguably the biggest error, according to Butt and Scholes, came in 2024 when they sold McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount for Ugarte.

Cox had plenty of supporters in the club, but Butt’s viewpoint is, interestingly, shared by some staff members, who felt that his holistic approach was not producing enough youngsters capable of dealing with the pressures of playing for such a huge club.

On the other hand, the likes of Alejandro Garnacho and Kobbie Mainoo — both FA Youth Cup winners with United in 2022 — made the step up, although the former has since been sold to Chelsea and the latter is now out of favour under Amorim.

One area in which United are playing catch up, certainly with City, is academy sales.
“You need the academy to be producing talent all the time. It helps you financially,” Ratcliffe said, when speaking to The Business, a new podcast from The Times.
Last summer, Liverpool, United’s opponents on Sunday, agreed academy graduate sales that could eventually bring in up to £120million, whereas the only graduate United sold was Garnacho, who cost Chelsea £40million.
United did bring in £80.8million and £43.6million from academy player sales in the previous two summers, which is a big improvement on previous years, but City have been hitting such numbers for some time now, raising about £400million in academy sales since Pep Guardiola was appointed manager in 2016.
The growing number of senior figures at Old Trafford with past links to City, such as Berrada, concerns Butt and Scholes.

United have undersold some of their youngsters, too. A year after offloading Álvaro Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real Madrid paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back — a position United have struggled in — although United did receive £7.5million as part of a sell-on clause for the 22-year-old.

In the summer of 2023, United sold Dean Henderson, an England international goalkeeper, for only £1million more than Burnley paid City for 20-year-old James Trafford.
Arguably the biggest error came in 2024 when they sold Scott McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount to Paris Saint-Germain for Manuel Ugarte.

That academy sales are put down as “pure profit” on the balance sheet under Profitability & Sustainability Rules influenced United’s decision, but the careers of both players have gone in different directions since that summer.

“Scott would have run through a brick wall for United,” Butt says. “He knows the DNA of that football club and I would guess he was getting paid 50 per cent less than the one they brought in [Ugarte], and he is nowhere near the level of Scott McTominay.

“Scott’s not your highest earner, he’s not going to kill the wage structure, he’s not going to kill the dressing room, you keep him at all costs.”

Scholes nods his head, adding: “Look, I’m not saying you’re going to win the Premier League if he’s in your midfield every week, but he’s the type of player that you always have around the place.”
Scholes, left, and Butt, now both 50, show no holding back when it comes to matters concerning the decline of their former club
Casemiro, 33, is one of three players who Scholes feels is incapable of keeping up with the pace of Premier League football and he questioned the wisdom of agreeing a £70million deal with Real Madrid for his services three years ago.
“We got sucked into that one, and there’s been quite a few like that,” Scholes says.
Butt picks up the baton, adding: “Real Madrid don’t let their best players go. [Raphaël] Varane and Casemiro were both unbelievable players [earlier] in their career. They’ve done more than I’ve ever done, so it’s difficult to have a go at them, but Real Madrid don’t sell their top players to a European rival in Man United.”

Scholes feels that Harry Maguire, 32, and Luke Shaw, the 30-year-old injury-plagued defender, are also past their peak.

“Shaw, Maguire, Casemiro, they’ve all been great players but they’re at a stage of their career now where you get found out in the Premier League if you’re not physically good enough,” Scholes says.
A year after United sold Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back.

“Their bodies are not athletic enough, they’re not strong enough, they’re not quick enough. They’ve dropped to a level where they can’t cope with what’s needed in the Premier League.
“Every player in the Premier League is an absolute machine. They’ve got five per cent body fat, they can run, they’re strong, they can head it. Manchester United are carrying two or three players that are just not capable of living with it.”
We have seen glimpses of improvement at times from Amorim’s squad. They were the better team — but still lost — against Arsenal on the opening weekend of the season and they should have put Fulham to bed in the first half the following Sunday, when they surrendered a lead to draw 1-1. In the first half of the wins over Chelsea and Sunderland, they played some exciting, attacking football too, but signs of mental fragility are costing them and that is highlighted by them not winning successive Premier League matches since April 2024.
“At the minute, the confidence is so low, they’re all shit-scared of even getting the ball to their feet,” Butt said.
All of which leads us back to one man — Amorim. The Liverpool game is something of a free hit for him, but they must win at home against Brighton & Hove Albion and then away to Nottingham Forest and Tottenham Hotspur before the next international break if Amorim is to strengthen his future.
Butt, like Scholes, is not a fan of the 3-4-2-1 system that Amorim uses, and feels the 40-year-old’s stubbornness in that respect is likely to cause his downfall.
“If me and Scholesy were in charge, we’d say, right our job’s on the line here and we’ve got to get some wins somehow,” Butt says. “And it’s not working, the system, so my thought would be, let’s go and get two or three results any way we can, but he’s gone so far now [by advocating the system], that he can’t go back.

“He’s made a rod for his own back. Does he think he can turn it around? Or does he want to go back to Portugal or Spain or another club? I don’t know the answer to that. But it’s looking to me like it [Amorim leaving] is going to happen sooner or later.

“The manager seems to be so obsessed with playing this way and if he keeps it up, and does not win games, he won’t have a chance to do it because he’s going to be gone. It’s a fact.”

It clearly pains Scholes to put the boot in on Amorim — he knows the problems at United are deep-rooted — but he acknowledges that time is running out.
Butt and Scholes both came through United’s academy and still hold the club dear to their hearts.
“If you don’t win games, you [Amorim] will lose your job. It’s getting to that point now,” Scholes says.
After what feels like a cathartic quickfire chat, the studio lights come up, signalling the end of our allotted time with Scholes and Butt, who pose for selfies with fans on their way out of the old Sharp building.
They will be back in the studio on Monday to discuss United at length, no doubt, and they are praying for once that they do not have to debate yet another morale-sapping defeat for the team they still hold dear to their hearts.
Click to expand...
TLDR;
‘This manshestnitid we’re talking about’
 
WEMBLEY76 said:
Long article from the Times today,I think it’s worth it to hear and feel the pain in the yesterday men’s assessment of Yoonitid,enjoy..Cityfication indeed….

Tucked away on a side street in northeast Manchester, not far from where Newton Heath played before they became Manchester United, sits another reminder of the club’s past.

During its peak years in the 1980s and 90s, Sharp’s warehouse on Thorp Road used to be a hive of activity, with dozens of workers assembling and storing all sorts of electrical equipment.

Sharp became United’s first club sponsor in 1982 and the deal lasted some 18 years. Since Sharp decided to relocate to London in 2005, the 200,000 sq ft warehouse has been repurposed and it now holds 60 high-tech blocks that are rented by digital businesses.


Fletcher, the under-18 coach, is a rare link between the present United and their illustrious past.
For the past two hours, Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes have been chatting about United — and other topics — with Paddy McGuinness, who hosts their new podcast The Good, The Bad & The Football, but the two 50-year-olds still have enough petrol in the tank to keep on talking about their old club.

As was the case during their playing days, Butt and Scholes complement each other well. They have a similar take on most matters, and they do not hold back on criticism of the club.

They agree that Ruben Amorim, the club’s head coach, is running out of time. “It [Amorim’s sacking] is going to happen sooner or later. I can’t see it turning around,” Butt says. They also accept that United bought some duds over the past few years and, most alarmingly to them, feel that the club is losing its identity right before their eyes.

More specifically, they are worried about the supposed Manchester City-fication of United after a number of their rivals crossed town to move to Old Trafford.
Amorim has something of a free hit against Liverpool but failure to win subsequent fixtures will soon put the focus back on his future.

“You’ve got [director of football] Jason Wilcox, [chief executive] Omar Berrada, then there’s others [who previously worked at City],” Scholes says. “I don’t think Manchester United should do that.

“City have been good for the past ten years, so we hope they bring a bit of that, but it’s not what a Manchester United person would want. It’s not what we want and it’s probably not what the fans want either.

“You talk about DNA, there’s nobody there who knows what a Manchester United person is. Darren Fletcher [the under-18s coach] is the only one who knows anything about what it’s like to be a Manchester United player. And look, you don’t always have to be the best player, but you just have to have the balls to be able to play for the club, don’t you?”
Stephen Torpey, who coached under Wilcox in City’s academy before becoming academy director at Brentford, is the latest recruit who has a dash of blue on his CV. Ineos hired the former FC United player after United’s head of academy, Nick Cox, left to become Everton’s new technical director.

“It’s unbelievable,” Butt says. “Every City staff member goes to Man United now. Real Madrid wouldn’t do it with Barcelona or vice versa.
Butt believes that Casemiro and Maguire are no longer equipped for the rigours of Premier League football.

“If you have a DNA that’s solid, you should go and handpick the really good coaches — United did that with Kieran McKenna [now the manager of Ipswich Town]. You see a shining light at Tottenham and bring him in and he teaches you things, but right now there’s no one [from United’s history] except Darren Fletcher.”

Butt, sat next to Scholes, is at his most passionate when speaking about the United academy, partly because he — and Scholes — came off the fabled production line at The Cliff, but also because he was in charge of United’s youth set-up for nine years until he departed in 2021 and was replaced by Cox.

The United co-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe, the chairman of Ineos, told The Times last week that standards had “really slipped” in the academy and Butt clearly agrees with him, claiming that youngsters are merely taught about self-development, rather than winning.
“I’m sick to death of hearing people at Man United’s academy saying, ‘It’s not about winning. It’s about the experience,’ ” Butt says. “It f***ing is about winning, because if you’ve never won anything from 13 all the way up, how are you expected to go and win at the first team?
“You’ve got to develop winners, because if you don’t, you can’t play for a big club like Man United. And that’s the biggest thing I’ve noticed in the academy over the last so many years. I know it probably sounds like I’m saying this because I left, but it’s not. It’s about winning. And if it’s not about winning, they’re at the wrong football club.”

Arguably the biggest error, according to Butt and Scholes, came in 2024 when they sold McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount for Ugarte.

Cox had plenty of supporters in the club, but Butt’s viewpoint is, interestingly, shared by some staff members, who felt that his holistic approach was not producing enough youngsters capable of dealing with the pressures of playing for such a huge club.

On the other hand, the likes of Alejandro Garnacho and Kobbie Mainoo — both FA Youth Cup winners with United in 2022 — made the step up, although the former has since been sold to Chelsea and the latter is now out of favour under Amorim.

One area in which United are playing catch up, certainly with City, is academy sales.
“You need the academy to be producing talent all the time. It helps you financially,” Ratcliffe said, when speaking to The Business, a new podcast from The Times.
Last summer, Liverpool, United’s opponents on Sunday, agreed academy graduate sales that could eventually bring in up to £120million, whereas the only graduate United sold was Garnacho, who cost Chelsea £40million.
United did bring in £80.8million and £43.6million from academy player sales in the previous two summers, which is a big improvement on previous years, but City have been hitting such numbers for some time now, raising about £400million in academy sales since Pep Guardiola was appointed manager in 2016.
The growing number of senior figures at Old Trafford with past links to City, such as Berrada, concerns Butt and Scholes.

United have undersold some of their youngsters, too. A year after offloading Álvaro Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real Madrid paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back — a position United have struggled in — although United did receive £7.5million as part of a sell-on clause for the 22-year-old.

In the summer of 2023, United sold Dean Henderson, an England international goalkeeper, for only £1million more than Burnley paid City for 20-year-old James Trafford.
Arguably the biggest error came in 2024 when they sold Scott McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount to Paris Saint-Germain for Manuel Ugarte.

That academy sales are put down as “pure profit” on the balance sheet under Profitability & Sustainability Rules influenced United’s decision, but the careers of both players have gone in different directions since that summer.

“Scott would have run through a brick wall for United,” Butt says. “He knows the DNA of that football club and I would guess he was getting paid 50 per cent less than the one they brought in [Ugarte], and he is nowhere near the level of Scott McTominay.

“Scott’s not your highest earner, he’s not going to kill the wage structure, he’s not going to kill the dressing room, you keep him at all costs.”

Scholes nods his head, adding: “Look, I’m not saying you’re going to win the Premier League if he’s in your midfield every week, but he’s the type of player that you always have around the place.”
Scholes, left, and Butt, now both 50, show no holding back when it comes to matters concerning the decline of their former club
Casemiro, 33, is one of three players who Scholes feels is incapable of keeping up with the pace of Premier League football and he questioned the wisdom of agreeing a £70million deal with Real Madrid for his services three years ago.
“We got sucked into that one, and there’s been quite a few like that,” Scholes says.
Butt picks up the baton, adding: “Real Madrid don’t let their best players go. [Raphaël] Varane and Casemiro were both unbelievable players [earlier] in their career. They’ve done more than I’ve ever done, so it’s difficult to have a go at them, but Real Madrid don’t sell their top players to a European rival in Man United.”

Scholes feels that Harry Maguire, 32, and Luke Shaw, the 30-year-old injury-plagued defender, are also past their peak.

“Shaw, Maguire, Casemiro, they’ve all been great players but they’re at a stage of their career now where you get found out in the Premier League if you’re not physically good enough,” Scholes says.
A year after United sold Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back.

“Their bodies are not athletic enough, they’re not strong enough, they’re not quick enough. They’ve dropped to a level where they can’t cope with what’s needed in the Premier League.
“Every player in the Premier League is an absolute machine. They’ve got five per cent body fat, they can run, they’re strong, they can head it. Manchester United are carrying two or three players that are just not capable of living with it.”
We have seen glimpses of improvement at times from Amorim’s squad. They were the better team — but still lost — against Arsenal on the opening weekend of the season and they should have put Fulham to bed in the first half the following Sunday, when they surrendered a lead to draw 1-1. In the first half of the wins over Chelsea and Sunderland, they played some exciting, attacking football too, but signs of mental fragility are costing them and that is highlighted by them not winning successive Premier League matches since April 2024.
“At the minute, the confidence is so low, they’re all shit-scared of even getting the ball to their feet,” Butt said.
All of which leads us back to one man — Amorim. The Liverpool game is something of a free hit for him, but they must win at home against Brighton & Hove Albion and then away to Nottingham Forest and Tottenham Hotspur before the next international break if Amorim is to strengthen his future.
Butt, like Scholes, is not a fan of the 3-4-2-1 system that Amorim uses, and feels the 40-year-old’s stubbornness in that respect is likely to cause his downfall.
“If me and Scholesy were in charge, we’d say, right our job’s on the line here and we’ve got to get some wins somehow,” Butt says. “And it’s not working, the system, so my thought would be, let’s go and get two or three results any way we can, but he’s gone so far now [by advocating the system], that he can’t go back.

“He’s made a rod for his own back. Does he think he can turn it around? Or does he want to go back to Portugal or Spain or another club? I don’t know the answer to that. But it’s looking to me like it [Amorim leaving] is going to happen sooner or later.

“The manager seems to be so obsessed with playing this way and if he keeps it up, and does not win games, he won’t have a chance to do it because he’s going to be gone. It’s a fact.”

It clearly pains Scholes to put the boot in on Amorim — he knows the problems at United are deep-rooted — but he acknowledges that time is running out.
Butt and Scholes both came through United’s academy and still hold the club dear to their hearts.
“If you don’t win games, you [Amorim] will lose your job. It’s getting to that point now,” Scholes says.
After what feels like a cathartic quickfire chat, the studio lights come up, signalling the end of our allotted time with Scholes and Butt, who pose for selfies with fans on their way out of the old Sharp building.
They will be back in the studio on Monday to discuss United at length, no doubt, and they are praying for once that they do not have to debate yet another morale-sapping defeat for the team they still hold dear to their hearts.
Click to expand...

These guys know what they are talking about. They have the famous united DNA. It wouldn't do any harm to give them more airtime in my opinion.
 
WEMBLEY76 said:
Long article from the Times today,I think it’s worth it to hear and feel the pain in the yesterday men’s assessment of Yoonitid,enjoy..Cityfication indeed….

Tucked away on a side street in northeast Manchester, not far from where Newton Heath played before they became Manchester United, sits another reminder of the club’s past.

During its peak years in the 1980s and 90s, Sharp’s warehouse on Thorp Road used to be a hive of activity, with dozens of workers assembling and storing all sorts of electrical equipment.

Sharp became United’s first club sponsor in 1982 and the deal lasted some 18 years. Since Sharp decided to relocate to London in 2005, the 200,000 sq ft warehouse has been repurposed and it now holds 60 high-tech blocks that are rented by digital businesses.


Fletcher, the under-18 coach, is a rare link between the present United and their illustrious past.
For the past two hours, Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes have been chatting about United — and other topics — with Paddy McGuinness, who hosts their new podcast The Good, The Bad & The Football, but the two 50-year-olds still have enough petrol in the tank to keep on talking about their old club.

As was the case during their playing days, Butt and Scholes complement each other well. They have a similar take on most matters, and they do not hold back on criticism of the club.

They agree that Ruben Amorim, the club’s head coach, is running out of time. “It [Amorim’s sacking] is going to happen sooner or later. I can’t see it turning around,” Butt says. They also accept that United bought some duds over the past few years and, most alarmingly to them, feel that the club is losing its identity right before their eyes.

More specifically, they are worried about the supposed Manchester City-fication of United after a number of their rivals crossed town to move to Old Trafford.
Amorim has something of a free hit against Liverpool but failure to win subsequent fixtures will soon put the focus back on his future.

“You’ve got [director of football] Jason Wilcox, [chief executive] Omar Berrada, then there’s others [who previously worked at City],” Scholes says. “I don’t think Manchester United should do that.

“City have been good for the past ten years, so we hope they bring a bit of that, but it’s not what a Manchester United person would want. It’s not what we want and it’s probably not what the fans want either.

“You talk about DNA, there’s nobody there who knows what a Manchester United person is. Darren Fletcher [the under-18s coach] is the only one who knows anything about what it’s like to be a Manchester United player. And look, you don’t always have to be the best player, but you just have to have the balls to be able to play for the club, don’t you?”
Stephen Torpey, who coached under Wilcox in City’s academy before becoming academy director at Brentford, is the latest recruit who has a dash of blue on his CV. Ineos hired the former FC United player after United’s head of academy, Nick Cox, left to become Everton’s new technical director.

“It’s unbelievable,” Butt says. “Every City staff member goes to Man United now. Real Madrid wouldn’t do it with Barcelona or vice versa.
Butt believes that Casemiro and Maguire are no longer equipped for the rigours of Premier League football.

“If you have a DNA that’s solid, you should go and handpick the really good coaches — United did that with Kieran McKenna [now the manager of Ipswich Town]. You see a shining light at Tottenham and bring him in and he teaches you things, but right now there’s no one [from United’s history] except Darren Fletcher.”

Butt, sat next to Scholes, is at his most passionate when speaking about the United academy, partly because he — and Scholes — came off the fabled production line at The Cliff, but also because he was in charge of United’s youth set-up for nine years until he departed in 2021 and was replaced by Cox.

The United co-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe, the chairman of Ineos, told The Times last week that standards had “really slipped” in the academy and Butt clearly agrees with him, claiming that youngsters are merely taught about self-development, rather than winning.
“I’m sick to death of hearing people at Man United’s academy saying, ‘It’s not about winning. It’s about the experience,’ ” Butt says. “It f***ing is about winning, because if you’ve never won anything from 13 all the way up, how are you expected to go and win at the first team?
“You’ve got to develop winners, because if you don’t, you can’t play for a big club like Man United. And that’s the biggest thing I’ve noticed in the academy over the last so many years. I know it probably sounds like I’m saying this because I left, but it’s not. It’s about winning. And if it’s not about winning, they’re at the wrong football club.”

Arguably the biggest error, according to Butt and Scholes, came in 2024 when they sold McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount for Ugarte.

Cox had plenty of supporters in the club, but Butt’s viewpoint is, interestingly, shared by some staff members, who felt that his holistic approach was not producing enough youngsters capable of dealing with the pressures of playing for such a huge club.

On the other hand, the likes of Alejandro Garnacho and Kobbie Mainoo — both FA Youth Cup winners with United in 2022 — made the step up, although the former has since been sold to Chelsea and the latter is now out of favour under Amorim.

One area in which United are playing catch up, certainly with City, is academy sales.
“You need the academy to be producing talent all the time. It helps you financially,” Ratcliffe said, when speaking to The Business, a new podcast from The Times.
Last summer, Liverpool, United’s opponents on Sunday, agreed academy graduate sales that could eventually bring in up to £120million, whereas the only graduate United sold was Garnacho, who cost Chelsea £40million.
United did bring in £80.8million and £43.6million from academy player sales in the previous two summers, which is a big improvement on previous years, but City have been hitting such numbers for some time now, raising about £400million in academy sales since Pep Guardiola was appointed manager in 2016.
The growing number of senior figures at Old Trafford with past links to City, such as Berrada, concerns Butt and Scholes.

United have undersold some of their youngsters, too. A year after offloading Álvaro Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real Madrid paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back — a position United have struggled in — although United did receive £7.5million as part of a sell-on clause for the 22-year-old.

In the summer of 2023, United sold Dean Henderson, an England international goalkeeper, for only £1million more than Burnley paid City for 20-year-old James Trafford.
Arguably the biggest error came in 2024 when they sold Scott McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount to Paris Saint-Germain for Manuel Ugarte.

That academy sales are put down as “pure profit” on the balance sheet under Profitability & Sustainability Rules influenced United’s decision, but the careers of both players have gone in different directions since that summer.

“Scott would have run through a brick wall for United,” Butt says. “He knows the DNA of that football club and I would guess he was getting paid 50 per cent less than the one they brought in [Ugarte], and he is nowhere near the level of Scott McTominay.

“Scott’s not your highest earner, he’s not going to kill the wage structure, he’s not going to kill the dressing room, you keep him at all costs.”

Scholes nods his head, adding: “Look, I’m not saying you’re going to win the Premier League if he’s in your midfield every week, but he’s the type of player that you always have around the place.”
Scholes, left, and Butt, now both 50, show no holding back when it comes to matters concerning the decline of their former club
Casemiro, 33, is one of three players who Scholes feels is incapable of keeping up with the pace of Premier League football and he questioned the wisdom of agreeing a £70million deal with Real Madrid for his services three years ago.
“We got sucked into that one, and there’s been quite a few like that,” Scholes says.
Butt picks up the baton, adding: “Real Madrid don’t let their best players go. [Raphaël] Varane and Casemiro were both unbelievable players [earlier] in their career. They’ve done more than I’ve ever done, so it’s difficult to have a go at them, but Real Madrid don’t sell their top players to a European rival in Man United.”

Scholes feels that Harry Maguire, 32, and Luke Shaw, the 30-year-old injury-plagued defender, are also past their peak.

“Shaw, Maguire, Casemiro, they’ve all been great players but they’re at a stage of their career now where you get found out in the Premier League if you’re not physically good enough,” Scholes says.
A year after United sold Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back.

“Their bodies are not athletic enough, they’re not strong enough, they’re not quick enough. They’ve dropped to a level where they can’t cope with what’s needed in the Premier League.
“Every player in the Premier League is an absolute machine. They’ve got five per cent body fat, they can run, they’re strong, they can head it. Manchester United are carrying two or three players that are just not capable of living with it.”
We have seen glimpses of improvement at times from Amorim’s squad. They were the better team — but still lost — against Arsenal on the opening weekend of the season and they should have put Fulham to bed in the first half the following Sunday, when they surrendered a lead to draw 1-1. In the first half of the wins over Chelsea and Sunderland, they played some exciting, attacking football too, but signs of mental fragility are costing them and that is highlighted by them not winning successive Premier League matches since April 2024.
“At the minute, the confidence is so low, they’re all shit-scared of even getting the ball to their feet,” Butt said.
All of which leads us back to one man — Amorim. The Liverpool game is something of a free hit for him, but they must win at home against Brighton & Hove Albion and then away to Nottingham Forest and Tottenham Hotspur before the next international break if Amorim is to strengthen his future.
Butt, like Scholes, is not a fan of the 3-4-2-1 system that Amorim uses, and feels the 40-year-old’s stubbornness in that respect is likely to cause his downfall.
“If me and Scholesy were in charge, we’d say, right our job’s on the line here and we’ve got to get some wins somehow,” Butt says. “And it’s not working, the system, so my thought would be, let’s go and get two or three results any way we can, but he’s gone so far now [by advocating the system], that he can’t go back.

“He’s made a rod for his own back. Does he think he can turn it around? Or does he want to go back to Portugal or Spain or another club? I don’t know the answer to that. But it’s looking to me like it [Amorim leaving] is going to happen sooner or later.

“The manager seems to be so obsessed with playing this way and if he keeps it up, and does not win games, he won’t have a chance to do it because he’s going to be gone. It’s a fact.”

It clearly pains Scholes to put the boot in on Amorim — he knows the problems at United are deep-rooted — but he acknowledges that time is running out.
Butt and Scholes both came through United’s academy and still hold the club dear to their hearts.
“If you don’t win games, you [Amorim] will lose your job. It’s getting to that point now,” Scholes says.
After what feels like a cathartic quickfire chat, the studio lights come up, signalling the end of our allotted time with Scholes and Butt, who pose for selfies with fans on their way out of the old Sharp building.
They will be back in the studio on Monday to discuss United at length, no doubt, and they are praying for once that they do not have to debate yet another morale-sapping defeat for the team they still hold dear to their hearts.
Click to expand...
I didn’t read all of it; just enough.

There’s a reason why the rags aren’t generating more revenue from academy sales.

Manchester City.

Our Academy is taking all the best local kids, leaving the rags - and others - to feed off the scraps of what’s left.

And the irony of Fletcher putting his boys through the City Academy is off the charts.
 
WEMBLEY76 said:
Long article from the Times today,I think it’s worth it to hear and feel the pain in the yesterday men’s assessment of Yoonitid,enjoy..Cityfication indeed….

Tucked away on a side street in northeast Manchester, not far from where Newton Heath played before they became Manchester United, sits another reminder of the club’s past.

During its peak years in the 1980s and 90s, Sharp’s warehouse on Thorp Road used to be a hive of activity, with dozens of workers assembling and storing all sorts of electrical equipment.

Sharp became United’s first club sponsor in 1982 and the deal lasted some 18 years. Since Sharp decided to relocate to London in 2005, the 200,000 sq ft warehouse has been repurposed and it now holds 60 high-tech blocks that are rented by digital businesses.


Fletcher, the under-18 coach, is a rare link between the present United and their illustrious past.
For the past two hours, Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes have been chatting about United — and other topics — with Paddy McGuinness, who hosts their new podcast The Good, The Bad & The Football, but the two 50-year-olds still have enough petrol in the tank to keep on talking about their old club.

As was the case during their playing days, Butt and Scholes complement each other well. They have a similar take on most matters, and they do not hold back on criticism of the club.

They agree that Ruben Amorim, the club’s head coach, is running out of time. “It [Amorim’s sacking] is going to happen sooner or later. I can’t see it turning around,” Butt says. They also accept that United bought some duds over the past few years and, most alarmingly to them, feel that the club is losing its identity right before their eyes.

More specifically, they are worried about the supposed Manchester City-fication of United after a number of their rivals crossed town to move to Old Trafford.
Amorim has something of a free hit against Liverpool but failure to win subsequent fixtures will soon put the focus back on his future.

“You’ve got [director of football] Jason Wilcox, [chief executive] Omar Berrada, then there’s others [who previously worked at City],” Scholes says. “I don’t think Manchester United should do that.

“City have been good for the past ten years, so we hope they bring a bit of that, but it’s not what a Manchester United person would want. It’s not what we want and it’s probably not what the fans want either.

“You talk about DNA, there’s nobody there who knows what a Manchester United person is. Darren Fletcher [the under-18s coach] is the only one who knows anything about what it’s like to be a Manchester United player. And look, you don’t always have to be the best player, but you just have to have the balls to be able to play for the club, don’t you?”
Stephen Torpey, who coached under Wilcox in City’s academy before becoming academy director at Brentford, is the latest recruit who has a dash of blue on his CV. Ineos hired the former FC United player after United’s head of academy, Nick Cox, left to become Everton’s new technical director.

“It’s unbelievable,” Butt says. “Every City staff member goes to Man United now. Real Madrid wouldn’t do it with Barcelona or vice versa.
Butt believes that Casemiro and Maguire are no longer equipped for the rigours of Premier League football.

“If you have a DNA that’s solid, you should go and handpick the really good coaches — United did that with Kieran McKenna [now the manager of Ipswich Town]. You see a shining light at Tottenham and bring him in and he teaches you things, but right now there’s no one [from United’s history] except Darren Fletcher.”

Butt, sat next to Scholes, is at his most passionate when speaking about the United academy, partly because he — and Scholes — came off the fabled production line at The Cliff, but also because he was in charge of United’s youth set-up for nine years until he departed in 2021 and was replaced by Cox.

The United co-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe, the chairman of Ineos, told The Times last week that standards had “really slipped” in the academy and Butt clearly agrees with him, claiming that youngsters are merely taught about self-development, rather than winning.
“I’m sick to death of hearing people at Man United’s academy saying, ‘It’s not about winning. It’s about the experience,’ ” Butt says. “It f***ing is about winning, because if you’ve never won anything from 13 all the way up, how are you expected to go and win at the first team?
“You’ve got to develop winners, because if you don’t, you can’t play for a big club like Man United. And that’s the biggest thing I’ve noticed in the academy over the last so many years. I know it probably sounds like I’m saying this because I left, but it’s not. It’s about winning. And if it’s not about winning, they’re at the wrong football club.”

Arguably the biggest error, according to Butt and Scholes, came in 2024 when they sold McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount for Ugarte.

Cox had plenty of supporters in the club, but Butt’s viewpoint is, interestingly, shared by some staff members, who felt that his holistic approach was not producing enough youngsters capable of dealing with the pressures of playing for such a huge club.

On the other hand, the likes of Alejandro Garnacho and Kobbie Mainoo — both FA Youth Cup winners with United in 2022 — made the step up, although the former has since been sold to Chelsea and the latter is now out of favour under Amorim.

One area in which United are playing catch up, certainly with City, is academy sales.
“You need the academy to be producing talent all the time. It helps you financially,” Ratcliffe said, when speaking to The Business, a new podcast from The Times.
Last summer, Liverpool, United’s opponents on Sunday, agreed academy graduate sales that could eventually bring in up to £120million, whereas the only graduate United sold was Garnacho, who cost Chelsea £40million.
United did bring in £80.8million and £43.6million from academy player sales in the previous two summers, which is a big improvement on previous years, but City have been hitting such numbers for some time now, raising about £400million in academy sales since Pep Guardiola was appointed manager in 2016.
The growing number of senior figures at Old Trafford with past links to City, such as Berrada, concerns Butt and Scholes.

United have undersold some of their youngsters, too. A year after offloading Álvaro Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real Madrid paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back — a position United have struggled in — although United did receive £7.5million as part of a sell-on clause for the 22-year-old.

In the summer of 2023, United sold Dean Henderson, an England international goalkeeper, for only £1million more than Burnley paid City for 20-year-old James Trafford.
Arguably the biggest error came in 2024 when they sold Scott McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount to Paris Saint-Germain for Manuel Ugarte.

That academy sales are put down as “pure profit” on the balance sheet under Profitability & Sustainability Rules influenced United’s decision, but the careers of both players have gone in different directions since that summer.

“Scott would have run through a brick wall for United,” Butt says. “He knows the DNA of that football club and I would guess he was getting paid 50 per cent less than the one they brought in [Ugarte], and he is nowhere near the level of Scott McTominay.

“Scott’s not your highest earner, he’s not going to kill the wage structure, he’s not going to kill the dressing room, you keep him at all costs.”

Scholes nods his head, adding: “Look, I’m not saying you’re going to win the Premier League if he’s in your midfield every week, but he’s the type of player that you always have around the place.”
Scholes, left, and Butt, now both 50, show no holding back when it comes to matters concerning the decline of their former club
Casemiro, 33, is one of three players who Scholes feels is incapable of keeping up with the pace of Premier League football and he questioned the wisdom of agreeing a £70million deal with Real Madrid for his services three years ago.
“We got sucked into that one, and there’s been quite a few like that,” Scholes says.
Butt picks up the baton, adding: “Real Madrid don’t let their best players go. [Raphaël] Varane and Casemiro were both unbelievable players [earlier] in their career. They’ve done more than I’ve ever done, so it’s difficult to have a go at them, but Real Madrid don’t sell their top players to a European rival in Man United.”

Scholes feels that Harry Maguire, 32, and Luke Shaw, the 30-year-old injury-plagued defender, are also past their peak.

“Shaw, Maguire, Casemiro, they’ve all been great players but they’re at a stage of their career now where you get found out in the Premier League if you’re not physically good enough,” Scholes says.
A year after United sold Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back.

“Their bodies are not athletic enough, they’re not strong enough, they’re not quick enough. They’ve dropped to a level where they can’t cope with what’s needed in the Premier League.
“Every player in the Premier League is an absolute machine. They’ve got five per cent body fat, they can run, they’re strong, they can head it. Manchester United are carrying two or three players that are just not capable of living with it.”
We have seen glimpses of improvement at times from Amorim’s squad. They were the better team — but still lost — against Arsenal on the opening weekend of the season and they should have put Fulham to bed in the first half the following Sunday, when they surrendered a lead to draw 1-1. In the first half of the wins over Chelsea and Sunderland, they played some exciting, attacking football too, but signs of mental fragility are costing them and that is highlighted by them not winning successive Premier League matches since April 2024.
“At the minute, the confidence is so low, they’re all shit-scared of even getting the ball to their feet,” Butt said.
All of which leads us back to one man — Amorim. The Liverpool game is something of a free hit for him, but they must win at home against Brighton & Hove Albion and then away to Nottingham Forest and Tottenham Hotspur before the next international break if Amorim is to strengthen his future.
Butt, like Scholes, is not a fan of the 3-4-2-1 system that Amorim uses, and feels the 40-year-old’s stubbornness in that respect is likely to cause his downfall.
“If me and Scholesy were in charge, we’d say, right our job’s on the line here and we’ve got to get some wins somehow,” Butt says. “And it’s not working, the system, so my thought would be, let’s go and get two or three results any way we can, but he’s gone so far now [by advocating the system], that he can’t go back.

“He’s made a rod for his own back. Does he think he can turn it around? Or does he want to go back to Portugal or Spain or another club? I don’t know the answer to that. But it’s looking to me like it [Amorim leaving] is going to happen sooner or later.

“The manager seems to be so obsessed with playing this way and if he keeps it up, and does not win games, he won’t have a chance to do it because he’s going to be gone. It’s a fact.”

It clearly pains Scholes to put the boot in on Amorim — he knows the problems at United are deep-rooted — but he acknowledges that time is running out.
Butt and Scholes both came through United’s academy and still hold the club dear to their hearts.
“If you don’t win games, you [Amorim] will lose your job. It’s getting to that point now,” Scholes says.
After what feels like a cathartic quickfire chat, the studio lights come up, signalling the end of our allotted time with Scholes and Butt, who pose for selfies with fans on their way out of the old Sharp building.
They will be back in the studio on Monday to discuss United at length, no doubt, and they are praying for once that they do not have to debate yet another morale-sapping defeat for the team they still hold dear to their hearts.
Click to expand...
thanks for posting.

a good read that, cheered me up no end.

i'll happily tune in next week for more salty tears from the rag cunts.
 
WEMBLEY76 said:
Long article from the Times today,I think it’s worth it to hear and feel the pain in the yesterday men’s assessment of Yoonitid,enjoy..Cityfication indeed….

Tucked away on a side street in northeast Manchester, not far from where Newton Heath played before they became Manchester United, sits another reminder of the club’s past.

During its peak years in the 1980s and 90s, Sharp’s warehouse on Thorp Road used to be a hive of activity, with dozens of workers assembling and storing all sorts of electrical equipment.

Sharp became United’s first club sponsor in 1982 and the deal lasted some 18 years. Since Sharp decided to relocate to London in 2005, the 200,000 sq ft warehouse has been repurposed and it now holds 60 high-tech blocks that are rented by digital businesses.


Fletcher, the under-18 coach, is a rare link between the present United and their illustrious past.
For the past two hours, Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes have been chatting about United — and other topics — with Paddy McGuinness, who hosts their new podcast The Good, The Bad & The Football, but the two 50-year-olds still have enough petrol in the tank to keep on talking about their old club.

As was the case during their playing days, Butt and Scholes complement each other well. They have a similar take on most matters, and they do not hold back on criticism of the club.

They agree that Ruben Amorim, the club’s head coach, is running out of time. “It [Amorim’s sacking] is going to happen sooner or later. I can’t see it turning around,” Butt says. They also accept that United bought some duds over the past few years and, most alarmingly to them, feel that the club is losing its identity right before their eyes.

More specifically, they are worried about the supposed Manchester City-fication of United after a number of their rivals crossed town to move to Old Trafford.
Amorim has something of a free hit against Liverpool but failure to win subsequent fixtures will soon put the focus back on his future.

“You’ve got [director of football] Jason Wilcox, [chief executive] Omar Berrada, then there’s others [who previously worked at City],” Scholes says. “I don’t think Manchester United should do that.

“City have been good for the past ten years, so we hope they bring a bit of that, but it’s not what a Manchester United person would want. It’s not what we want and it’s probably not what the fans want either.

“You talk about DNA, there’s nobody there who knows what a Manchester United person is. Darren Fletcher [the under-18s coach] is the only one who knows anything about what it’s like to be a Manchester United player. And look, you don’t always have to be the best player, but you just have to have the balls to be able to play for the club, don’t you?”
Stephen Torpey, who coached under Wilcox in City’s academy before becoming academy director at Brentford, is the latest recruit who has a dash of blue on his CV. Ineos hired the former FC United player after United’s head of academy, Nick Cox, left to become Everton’s new technical director.

“It’s unbelievable,” Butt says. “Every City staff member goes to Man United now. Real Madrid wouldn’t do it with Barcelona or vice versa.
Butt believes that Casemiro and Maguire are no longer equipped for the rigours of Premier League football.

“If you have a DNA that’s solid, you should go and handpick the really good coaches — United did that with Kieran McKenna [now the manager of Ipswich Town]. You see a shining light at Tottenham and bring him in and he teaches you things, but right now there’s no one [from United’s history] except Darren Fletcher.”

Butt, sat next to Scholes, is at his most passionate when speaking about the United academy, partly because he — and Scholes — came off the fabled production line at The Cliff, but also because he was in charge of United’s youth set-up for nine years until he departed in 2021 and was replaced by Cox.

The United co-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe, the chairman of Ineos, told The Times last week that standards had “really slipped” in the academy and Butt clearly agrees with him, claiming that youngsters are merely taught about self-development, rather than winning.
“I’m sick to death of hearing people at Man United’s academy saying, ‘It’s not about winning. It’s about the experience,’ ” Butt says. “It f***ing is about winning, because if you’ve never won anything from 13 all the way up, how are you expected to go and win at the first team?
“You’ve got to develop winners, because if you don’t, you can’t play for a big club like Man United. And that’s the biggest thing I’ve noticed in the academy over the last so many years. I know it probably sounds like I’m saying this because I left, but it’s not. It’s about winning. And if it’s not about winning, they’re at the wrong football club.”

Arguably the biggest error, according to Butt and Scholes, came in 2024 when they sold McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount for Ugarte.

Cox had plenty of supporters in the club, but Butt’s viewpoint is, interestingly, shared by some staff members, who felt that his holistic approach was not producing enough youngsters capable of dealing with the pressures of playing for such a huge club.

On the other hand, the likes of Alejandro Garnacho and Kobbie Mainoo — both FA Youth Cup winners with United in 2022 — made the step up, although the former has since been sold to Chelsea and the latter is now out of favour under Amorim.

One area in which United are playing catch up, certainly with City, is academy sales.
“You need the academy to be producing talent all the time. It helps you financially,” Ratcliffe said, when speaking to The Business, a new podcast from The Times.
Last summer, Liverpool, United’s opponents on Sunday, agreed academy graduate sales that could eventually bring in up to £120million, whereas the only graduate United sold was Garnacho, who cost Chelsea £40million.
United did bring in £80.8million and £43.6million from academy player sales in the previous two summers, which is a big improvement on previous years, but City have been hitting such numbers for some time now, raising about £400million in academy sales since Pep Guardiola was appointed manager in 2016.
The growing number of senior figures at Old Trafford with past links to City, such as Berrada, concerns Butt and Scholes.

United have undersold some of their youngsters, too. A year after offloading Álvaro Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real Madrid paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back — a position United have struggled in — although United did receive £7.5million as part of a sell-on clause for the 22-year-old.

In the summer of 2023, United sold Dean Henderson, an England international goalkeeper, for only £1million more than Burnley paid City for 20-year-old James Trafford.
Arguably the biggest error came in 2024 when they sold Scott McTominay to Napoli for £25million and paid twice that amount to Paris Saint-Germain for Manuel Ugarte.

That academy sales are put down as “pure profit” on the balance sheet under Profitability & Sustainability Rules influenced United’s decision, but the careers of both players have gone in different directions since that summer.

“Scott would have run through a brick wall for United,” Butt says. “He knows the DNA of that football club and I would guess he was getting paid 50 per cent less than the one they brought in [Ugarte], and he is nowhere near the level of Scott McTominay.

“Scott’s not your highest earner, he’s not going to kill the wage structure, he’s not going to kill the dressing room, you keep him at all costs.”

Scholes nods his head, adding: “Look, I’m not saying you’re going to win the Premier League if he’s in your midfield every week, but he’s the type of player that you always have around the place.”
Scholes, left, and Butt, now both 50, show no holding back when it comes to matters concerning the decline of their former club
Casemiro, 33, is one of three players who Scholes feels is incapable of keeping up with the pace of Premier League football and he questioned the wisdom of agreeing a £70million deal with Real Madrid for his services three years ago.
“We got sucked into that one, and there’s been quite a few like that,” Scholes says.
Butt picks up the baton, adding: “Real Madrid don’t let their best players go. [Raphaël] Varane and Casemiro were both unbelievable players [earlier] in their career. They’ve done more than I’ve ever done, so it’s difficult to have a go at them, but Real Madrid don’t sell their top players to a European rival in Man United.”

Scholes feels that Harry Maguire, 32, and Luke Shaw, the 30-year-old injury-plagued defender, are also past their peak.

“Shaw, Maguire, Casemiro, they’ve all been great players but they’re at a stage of their career now where you get found out in the Premier League if you’re not physically good enough,” Scholes says.
A year after United sold Carreras to Benfica for £5million, Real paid the Portuguese club £43million for the left back.

“Their bodies are not athletic enough, they’re not strong enough, they’re not quick enough. They’ve dropped to a level where they can’t cope with what’s needed in the Premier League.
“Every player in the Premier League is an absolute machine. They’ve got five per cent body fat, they can run, they’re strong, they can head it. Manchester United are carrying two or three players that are just not capable of living with it.”
We have seen glimpses of improvement at times from Amorim’s squad. They were the better team — but still lost — against Arsenal on the opening weekend of the season and they should have put Fulham to bed in the first half the following Sunday, when they surrendered a lead to draw 1-1. In the first half of the wins over Chelsea and Sunderland, they played some exciting, attacking football too, but signs of mental fragility are costing them and that is highlighted by them not winning successive Premier League matches since April 2024.
“At the minute, the confidence is so low, they’re all shit-scared of even getting the ball to their feet,” Butt said.
All of which leads us back to one man — Amorim. The Liverpool game is something of a free hit for him, but they must win at home against Brighton & Hove Albion and then away to Nottingham Forest and Tottenham Hotspur before the next international break if Amorim is to strengthen his future.
Butt, like Scholes, is not a fan of the 3-4-2-1 system that Amorim uses, and feels the 40-year-old’s stubbornness in that respect is likely to cause his downfall.
“If me and Scholesy were in charge, we’d say, right our job’s on the line here and we’ve got to get some wins somehow,” Butt says. “And it’s not working, the system, so my thought would be, let’s go and get two or three results any way we can, but he’s gone so far now [by advocating the system], that he can’t go back.

“He’s made a rod for his own back. Does he think he can turn it around? Or does he want to go back to Portugal or Spain or another club? I don’t know the answer to that. But it’s looking to me like it [Amorim leaving] is going to happen sooner or later.

“The manager seems to be so obsessed with playing this way and if he keeps it up, and does not win games, he won’t have a chance to do it because he’s going to be gone. It’s a fact.”

It clearly pains Scholes to put the boot in on Amorim — he knows the problems at United are deep-rooted — but he acknowledges that time is running out.
Butt and Scholes both came through United’s academy and still hold the club dear to their hearts.
“If you don’t win games, you [Amorim] will lose your job. It’s getting to that point now,” Scholes says.
After what feels like a cathartic quickfire chat, the studio lights come up, signalling the end of our allotted time with Scholes and Butt, who pose for selfies with fans on their way out of the old Sharp building.
They will be back in the studio on Monday to discuss United at length, no doubt, and they are praying for once that they do not have to debate yet another morale-sapping defeat for the team they still hold dear to their hearts.
Click to expand...
Glad I read some of that .
So butt.
And the toe sucker are still a pair of entitled cunts.
Like the rest of the red bastards.
 
Going back to the Sharp Electronic days, my missus worked there. On one particular day, Ron Atkinson and the player's had a tour of the Thorp road warehouse. They were given vouchers to a certain value so they could purchase such things as Music Centres, TVs, Headphones etc. She said all of them were tight fookers. When they got down to their last few bob, they were asking what they could buy with the leftover money, it usually ended up with them buying cassette tapes. Ratcliffe would have been proud.
 
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