The Labour Government

[M18CTID]

So it's that Labour and Tory competence that's got the country into the state it now finds itself in is it?

The only thing that all Labour and Tory politicians have demonstrably proved themselves competent at is personally enriching themselves whilst doing the bidding of their corporate and rentier class paymasters.

Reform haven't proven one way or another whether they'll be just as bad.

They’re already proving at local council level that they’re totally out of their depth.

 

[WRicko]

It's everything to do with the abysmal work ethic that exists within local government workforces and the wider public sector.

Tolerating this atrocious public sector work culture with It's appalling productivity and complete lack of accountability is one of the single biggest economic drags on the UK and it still exists as bad as ever regardless of any cuts and attempts to reform it over the years.

You haven’t actually said anything of any substance

 

[WRicko]

You blamed the workforce for being lazy.

"An abysmal work culture".

You are attacking people whose jobs you couldn't do all across the public sector, and have no idea how efficient they are.

The biggest challenges have been the cuts since 2010, understaffed and having to spend more on agency staff, and your Fuhrer wants to make more cuts, and you believe it all without evidence.

He wants to sell off the NHS to the USA, and make billions out of it. You don't make something more efficient by making blanket cuts, and Labour have scrapped NHS England, so you can't get rid of them.

He needs thick people to vote for him, and there are plenty that will, as the Sun is probably still the most popular newspaper, you know the one that would get excited about paedophiles but still show topless 16 year old girls for old men to wank over until Labour banned it.

Or are you more of a Daily Star man?

Increased capital spending would also help not just spending more on day to day / staff so you don’t need agency staff at higher rates but again that costs money. Thats in the NHS alone.

Same would apply in all areas if we where building council houses for example we would spend more now but safe on housing benefit

 

[WRicko]

The use of cheap imported labour is basically the lazy and easier option as opposed to investing in technological innovation to improve productivity.

The use of cheap imported labour is so all encompassing and wide scale across most of the economy and employment sector, especially low skilled and unskilled work, it would be impossible to give examples of specific areas or industries where its impacted productivity, it would be far easier for me to give you examples of low skilled employment sectors that haven't been subject to wage suppression... erm, none.

Cheap labour abroad doesn’t affect UK productivity they are abroad if you mean people from aboard working for low wages in the UK there is minimum wages and they are being replaced by machines anyway as show in the earlier comments with the ordering machines

 

[WRicko]

You're conflating two completely seperate accusations that you're levelling at me, I was responding to you telling me "I'll be blaming the immigrants"

I entirely stand by my seperate statement that on the whole the public sector workforce, especially middle management and above, is predominantly left wing with an abysmal and deeply entrenched work culture of inefficiency, entitlement and non-accountability.

I understand you can only garner your abusive rhetoric, infantile name calling and oh so tired and clichéd soundbites from the left wing social media echo chambers you frequent, possibly with a bit of the Guardian thrown in for good measure... that's fair enough, I don't hold it against you, I can only try to encourage you to expand your sources of learning and information.

What of all the teachers doctors etc doing unpaid overtime ? What about the private contractors working in the public sector are they also lazy ? Or just useless ? In which case how would they do a better job running things. Have you never worked in a lazy or in efficient private company Iv worked places where it depends on management being about to keep an eye on people especially younger staff to keep them working. People always discuss in efficient or terrible workplaces in the private sector when discussing things like the economy or mental health etc

 

[jacko74]

What of all the teachers doctors etc doing unpaid overtime ? What about the private contractors working in the public sector are they also lazy ? Or just useless ? In which case how would they do a better job running things. Have you never worked in a lazy or in efficient private company Iv worked places where it depends on management being about to keep an eye on people especially younger staff to keep them working. People always discuss in efficient or terrible workplaces in the private sector when discussing things like the economy or mental health etc

The difference is any business owner in the private sector who has a highly inefficient and wasteful operation with a lazy, intransigent and entitled workforce providing an abysmal level of service for thier paying customers is only wasting their own money... money which I suspect will soon run out.

It doesn't quite work like that in terms of the public sector does it, the public sector can be as inefficient, inept, intransigent, workshy and entitled as it likes... yet the money still rolls right in.

 

[jacko74]

Cheap labour abroad doesn’t affect UK productivity they are abroad if you mean people from aboard working for low wages in the UK there is minimum wages and they are being replaced by machines anyway as show in the earlier comments with the ordering machines

Well a huge proportion of immigrants in the UK aren't even receiving minimum wage, working in the grey/gig economy they'll be getting well below minimum wage in reality.

Those ordering machines are a rare example of a corporation bothering to invest in technological innovation to improve productivity though, for the most part they just stick with the easier option of exploiting cheap migrant labour.

As I've previously said, comparing "productivity" between different countries is as utterly pointless and meaningless as comparing official GDP figures between different countries.

 

[jacko74]

You haven’t actually said anything of any substance

And you have?

To be honest I'm not entirely sure if you have, your grammar is so poor most of your posts are borderline incomprehensible, so perhaps you are actually making the most salient, valid and reasoned points in this whole thread, I suppose we'll never know.

 

[jacko74]

And how will that affect the UK's manufacturing industry?

Your question seems to bear no relation to the specific discussion.

You'll have to qualify it a little better before I can help you out.

 

[jacko74]

Let’s give Labour a fair crack. But if you think Farage is the man, you will soon realise how misinformed you are should he get anywhere near no 10

Well they've certainly done nothing at all so far to demonstrate to me that they're going to tackle the rampant corporatism that's the root cause of every social, economic and environmental issue this country suffers from.

Do you think they have?

 

[hampshireblue]

Go on then, I'll help you out as I can see you're struggling.

Here's one very rare example of where such technological innovation is actually being implemented...

View attachment 173741

Thank you for one example. I'm not really sure if this is as efficient as you suggest however. The last time I was in a McD, I had to queue to use the machine rather than order at the counter. Not being a regular, I then spent 2-3 minutes navigating the menu for something that would have taken me 10 seconds to order and pay for with a human. My experience in McD was that it was not predominantly staffed by immigrants, it was about 50-50 in terms of visual ethnicity.

A bit of investigation show suggests that most low wage, low skilled immigration work is carried out in the food processing industry, which I would have thought is mechanised and therefore reasonably highly productive already.

 

[jacko74]

Thank you for one example. I'm not really sure if this is as efficient as you suggest however. The last time I was in a McD, I had to queue to use the machine rather than order at the counter. Not being a regular, I then spent 2-3 minutes navigating the menu for something that would have taken me 10 seconds to order and pay for with a human.

A bit of investigation show suggests that most low wage, low skilled immigration work is carried out in the food processing industry, which I would have thought is mechanised and therefore reasonably highly productive already.

You might not find those ordering machines efficient or convenient as a customer (I'm sure I wouldn't either) but Maccies don't really care about that, as long as they prove to be much more cost effective than employing someone to take your order then then that's all that matters in terms of improved productivity and profitability.

Given we're still importing many hundreds of thousands of unskilled labourers each year if the majority of them really are going into the food processing industry then I very much doubt its as mechanised as it could potentially be.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Well they've certainly done nothing at all so far to demonstrate to me that they're going to tackle the rampant corporatism that's the root cause of every social, economic and environmental issue this country suffers from.

Do you think they have?

Off the top of my head.... Labour so far

Ending Doctors / train drivers strikes

School Breakfast Clubs

Widened the number of free school meals

1000 more GPs to be recruited

Brought ( some ) railways back into public ownership with plans in place for the remainder

Allowing local authorities to bring privatised bus services back into local ownership / control

banned no fault evictions and introduced protections for renters

Announced reform of the planning process to allow more homes to be built

Homes for Heroes programme to ensure all UK Armed forces veterans / care leavers and domestic abuse survivors have somewhere to live

improved police numbers to restart neighbourhood policing (13000)

Scapped Rwanda scheme

6500 more teachers being recruited

Launched Skills England / overhauled apprenticeships

£29 billion boost for the NHS / reduced waiting times for operations

Launched GB Energy

Created a National Wealth Fund to encourage private capital in priority sectors

Ended a number of asylum hotels

Ended the VAT Exemption for Private Schools

Numerous trade agreements

Closer working with the French to produce a returns agreement for failed asylum seekers

Introduced legislation to reduce the number of small boat crossings

Mis steps

Welfare Reform

Winter Fuel allowance (now reinstated if you earn less than £35.000)

 

[Brewster's millions]

Off the top of my head.... Labour so far

Ending Doctors / train drivers strikes

School Breakfast Clubs

Widened the number of free school meals

1000 more GPs to be recruited

Brought ( some ) railways back into public ownership with plans in place for the remainder

Allowing local authorities to bring privatised bus services back into local ownership / control

banned no fault evictions and introduced protections for renters

Announced reform of the planning process to allow more homes to be built

Homes for Heroes programme to ensure all UK Armed forces veterans / care leavers and domestic abuse survivors have somewhere to live

improved police numbers to restart neighbourhood policing (13000)

Scapped Rwanda scheme

6500 more teachers being recruited

Launched Skills England / overhauled apprenticeships

£29 billion boost for the NHS / reduced waiting times for operations

Launched GB Energy

Created a National Wealth Fund to encourage private capital in priority sectors

Ended a number of asylum hotels

Ended the VAT Exemption for Private Schools

Numerous trade agreements

Closer working with the French to produce a returns agreement for failed asylum seekers

Introduced legislation to reduce the number of small boat crossings

Mis steps

Welfare Reform

Winter Fuel allowance (now reinstated if you earn less than £35.000)

If you’re going to post inane stuff like this, you might want to make sure that the first one in the list isn’t false.

 

[jacko74]

Off the top of my head.... Labour so far

Ending Doctors / train drivers strikes - By caving in to pay demands for already very high earners.

School Breakfast Clubs - More taxpayers money for benefits claimants and feckless breeders

Widened the number of free school meals - see above

1000 more GPs to be recruited - we'll see

Brought ( some ) railways back into public ownership with plans in place for the remainder - because the public sector is So Much more efficient and effective isnt it

Allowing local authorities to bring privatised bus services back into local ownership / control - see above

banned no fault evictions and introduced protections for renters - a good thing.

Announced reform of the planning process to allow more homes to be built - more destruction of the environment all in the idiotic pursuit of "perpetual growth" aka perpetual profits for the billionaire corporations

Homes for Heroes programme to ensure all UK Armed forces veterans / care leavers and domestic abuse survivors have somewhere to live - we'll see

improved police numbers to restart neighbourhood policing (13000) - we'll see

Scapped Rwanda scheme - a scheme that failed due to the interference of money grabbing lawyers cashing in with the usual "human rights" grift. Not surprising really given that's exactly how Starmer made his millions before becoming our glorious leader

6500 more teachers being recruited - we'll see

Launched Skills England / overhauled apprenticeships we'll see

£29 billion boost for the NHS / reduced waiting times for operations -  no new money at all.

Launched GB Energy - we'll see

Created a National Wealth Fund to encourage private capital in priority sectors -- we'll see

Ended a number of asylum hotels - by handing out obscenely generous SERCO contracts to house them in residential properties that would otherwise be starter homes or family homes.

Ended the VAT Exemption for Private Schools a good thing

Numerous trade agreements - we'll see

Closer working with the French to produce a returns agreement for failed asylum seekers and this will be any more successful than the dozens of similar agreements that have gone before it will it?

Introduced legislation to reduce the number of small boat crossings - the small boats and their "asylum seeking" occupants are sstatistically irrelevant (even though they do still cost the taxpayers billions per year)

Mis steps

Welfare Reform - They've done nothing to reform welfare, the out of control and not fit for purpose benefits system is as profligate and open to abuse as its ever been

Winter Fuel allowance (now reinstated if you earn less than £35.000)

Well I'm seeing two positives from that list, all the rest are not good at all, more of the same, or completely unproven in terms of how successful they could be.

Oh and well done on being able to supply all those "off the top of your head" and not just copy and pasting them from some Labour propaganda rag... you must have a remarkable memory capacity.

 

[hampshireblue]

You might not find those ordering machines efficient or convenient as a customer (I'm sure I wouldn't either) but Maccies don't really care about that, as long as they prove to be much more cost effective than employing someone to take your order then then that's all that matters in terms of improved productivity and profitability.

Given we're still importing many hundreds of thousands of unskilled labourers each year if the majority of them really are going into the food processing industry then I very much doubt its as mechanised as it could potentially be.

But are we now doing this? There is no doubt the ones here may be in that category to an extent but the laws regarding salaries for visas are driving the unskilled category down. But if we don't want low skilled immigration ( many of whom are already here), you'd better remind the locals that those jobs are just waiting for them to do. Maybe that why there are so many 18-24 year olds not bothering to go out to work.

But this was originally about low productivity in the public sector and you have guided it towards yet another debate on immigration.

 

[hampshireblue]

Well I'm seeing two positives from that list, all the rest are not good at all, more of the same, or completely unproven in terms of how successful they could be.

Oh and well done on being able to supply all those "off the top of your head" and not just copy and pasting them from some Labour propaganda rag... you must have a remarkable memory capacity.

F*ck me. Feckless Breeders- the new phrase for less wealthy parents!! Courtesy of I'mAll RightJacko74.

 

[jacko74]

F*ck me. Feckless Breeders- the new phrase for less wealthy parents!!

Not new at all.

It's the phrase used to describe the huge numbers of people who CHOOSE to have kids they can't afford then CHOOSE to work minimal part-time hours in order to receive optimum "in work" benefits, resulting in them having the same level of disposable income as someone working full-time earning the national average wage.

If they time their breeding programme correctly they can milk the system in this way for decades.

I'm surprised you're not familiar with the situation, I'm guessing you don't get much opportunity to see how things are in the real world.

 

[jacko74]

But are we now doing this? There is no doubt the ones here may be in that category to an extent but the laws regarding salaries for visas are driving the unskilled category down. But if we don't want low skilled immigration ( many of whom are already here), you'd better remind the locals that those jobs are just waiting for them to do. Maybe that why there are so many 18-24 year olds not bothering to go out to work.

But this was originally about low productivity in the public sector and you have guided it towards yet another debate on immigration.

The whole point of this particular discussion is that low productivity is intrinsically linked to the use of cheap imported labour, I'm not "guiding it on to immigration at all"

You've absolutely confirmed my point of the utter insanity of the whole situation... we've imported millions of unskilled workers to do low paid work whilst at the same time we have huge levels of under-employment with people choosing to work minimal part time hours or not work at all... all supported by benefits.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Why Young Brits Are Flocking to Australia | Emigrate to Australia

Migration to Australia has surged in recent years. As a matter of fact, there’s no sign of it slowing down anytime soon. Greg Veal, our Australian migration expert at Taylor Hampton Solicitors, recently shed some light on this growing trend during an interview with Vanessa Feltz on LBC radio...

www.emigrate-to-australia.co.uk

Mentioned this morning too on telly. Can't blame them can you. Applying for 600 jobs here and AI says no...few weeks in Oz a job .............