Should National Service be mandatory ?

[roubaixtuesday]

humility manners or respect

A suggestion that you yourself showing even the slightest modicum of these would strengthen your case considerably.

 

[mosssideblue]

Thanks, just wanted to understand what you meant.

I don't think the UK itself is unsafe in the sense of being in danger of invasion.

But I do think our way of life is under threat; a Russian victory in Ukraine combined with US stated policy to overthrow our government could well result in very grim outcomes. For instance, infrastructure being attacked, trade being curtailed and an autocratic government installed.

I agree an invasion is unlikely, but I can see the scenario where we have boots on the ground in Ukraine to uphold peace and that going tits up.

 

[.db.]

For 45-50 year olds

I’m 43 and recently looked at a driving job for the British Army, but (if I remember correctly) 38 years old was the cut-off point (maybe 35, can’t quite remember).

 

[BlueRockape]

A suggestion that you yourself showing even the slightest modicum of these would strengthen your case considerably.

There is a lot to be said for education

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I agree an invasion is unlikely, but I can see the scenario where we have boots on the ground in Ukraine to uphold peace and that going tits up.

Fully agree.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

There is a lot to be said for education

Indeed. I commend it both to you, and to all the teenagers you want to miss it for national service.

 

[BlueRockape]

Indeed. I commend it both to you, and to all the teenagers you want to miss it for national service.

They will miss nothing it will enhance their education of life and other people that they wouldn't normally mix with.
The British forces is really a great grounding and leveler.
My last comment was a compliment not a dig

 

[mosssideblue]

They will miss nothing it will enhance their education of life and other people that they wouldn't normally mix with.
The British forces is really a great grounding and leveler.
My last comment was a compliment not a dig

I would thoroughly recommend anyone ( male & female) leaving school or unemployed (age & health) permitting to give the armed forces a crack.

 

[BlueRockape]

I would thoroughly recommend anyone ( male & female) leaving school or unemployed (age & health) permitting to give the armed forces a crack.

As a young lad of 17 kicking his heals around moss side Rusholme fallowfield and other lovely places and getting into untold amounts of trouble.
I can honestly say it saved me

 

[mosssideblue]

As a young lad of 17 kicking his heals around moss side Rusholme fallowfield and other lovely places and getting into untold amounts of trouble.
I can honestly say it saved me

Moved from Moss Side to Fleetwood in 68. No work prospects there so joined RN in 72.

Was fed, watered, paid to travelled and was exceptionally highly trained.

Would do it all again in a heartbeat

 

[BlueRockape]

Moved from Moss Side to Fleetwood in 68. No work prospects there so joined RN in 72.

Was fed, watered, paid to travelled and was exceptionally highly trained.

Would do it all again in a heartbeat

Wouldn't miss a day......well nearly

 

[waspish]

Typical on most threads it’s about point scoring! Suppose though if someone just posts I don’t agree with you leave thread never to post again on there, forums will die..

 

[mosssideblue]

Typical on most threads it’s about point scoring! Suppose though if someone just posts I don’t agree with you leave thread never to post again on there, forums will die..

Not sure point scoring has been prevalent, more judging the mood and appetite for NS should the Government introduce it, or a variant of it.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Russia has just reverted to type after the later Gorbachev and Yeltsin eras, this is only new to youngsters.

Welcome to Cold War II. In CWI we were told escalation was inevitable by experts too. Of course eventually they will be right.

My personal view? It won’t happen under Putin, but we don’t know what the next guy might be like. Just like we were when Brezhnev became Andropov, Andropov became Chernenko, Chernenko became Gorbachev.

The fear of uncertainty. Putin loves that, he wants it to continue.

Big difference we had a strong USA to counter them now they look like they are on their side !

 

[Silva Citizen]

I'll be honest, if I'm having an operation, the last thing I'd want to see is some work experience kid who doesn't want to be there helping out.

But they could work as porters or in the kitchen. Maybe the bright ones could learn pharmacy or other skills

 

[Silva Citizen]

Or we could, you know, employ young people to work in those organisations?

I've got a 20yo son, currently studying engineering at Uni.

Exactly what would the advantage to him, or the country, for being forced to do something completely unrelated for two years, presumably unwaged*

It's a bizarre proposition.

*If you're proposing to pay these people, (1) it will be ruinously expensive and (2) your be far better off giving the money to the organisations you want to support to actually employ people who want to be there!

No one’s said unwanted but it would be reduced wage - more of a stipend.
I take your point re university, my daughter has gone through that at great expense too.

Maybe it should be for Under 25s claiming benefits - at that age 18 months national service before being able to claim benefits sounds reasonable to me

 

[Phil1]

I'm too old so it's a yes from me. :-)

 

[ChicagoBlue]

The kids who make their way in the world learn from experience and get it together.

Those aren’t the ones we are worried about; it’s the other 80%!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I suspect where we differ is that perhaps you think humans can 100% buck all that extrinsic pull with just their intrinsic motivation? Whereas I don't think that's the case at least for the vast majority of people.

A very perceptive take. But, it’s the vast majority that we are worried about. They don’t have the tools to say “No” to anything and anything that requires waiting, patience or decent effort seems to be of too much trouble.

I agree that society has much to answer for, but that’s why I think NS might actually help change that dynamic.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Yeah, you can't feel pain when you've hanged yourself

"the hellish chaos of basic training": its violence, verbal savagery, the dumb misery of military drills, the horrors of bayonet practice. Several young men killed themselves during training – usually by hanging from a lavatory cistern, because "the shithouse" was the only place that gave a moment's privacy

National Service: Conscription in Britain 1945-1963 by Richard Vinen – review

Richard Davenport-Hines explores the forgotten history of Britain's peacetime conscription

www.theguardian.com

Does it not occur to proponents of this that there were very good reasons why it was stopped in the first place?

This is why I prefaced my entire series of posts on this thread on the position that NS should focus on the S for the N, not just military type training. That would be available to those for whom such training might lead to a career, but other service avenues, such as ecology, community projects, experience of the trades in renewal projects, etc. in short, giving back to society and, in particular, the communities in which we all have to live.