Bondi terror attack

[west didsblue]

Lindsey Graham Blames Obama and Biden for Australia Mass Shooting: They ‘Have a Lot to Do With This’

Sen. Lindsey Graham blamed a mass shooting at a Hanukkah celebration in Australia on former Presidents Barack Obama and Joe Biden.

www.yahoo.com

Distraction from Trump’s deranged post about Reiner.

 

[VOOMER]

I think the West has disrupted the lives of Arabs and Muslims far more than the reverse

We still play cricket, go to church, sing Christmas carols, watch Downtown Abbey/Coronation street, have a king, support City, etc etc

Baghdad, Tehran, Damascus, Beirut have all suffered huge loss of life in the last 40 years.
Most of it caused by the West meddling in the area due to oil, religion.

YFW? heard of the Ottomans and Moors?

 

[johnnytapia]

Sorry, are you saying here that the majority of people who follow Islam are radical extremists, or that ordinary people who follow Islam are simply collateral damage in the war against extremism?

No. I’m saying the West is under threat from Islamists. They hate us; they want Islam and Islamic culture to be the dominant force- religious, political, cultural. And their numbers are increasing daily.

 

[hilts]

And Hamas? Would you be happy to put Hamas in court for war crimes? What about the Jew haters in Iran? Hezbollah? Houti? Are we going to get all of them in court for war crimes? Or just Trump and Netanyahu?

@oldius has been very consistent in stating he/she hates all forms of violence from any group of people, its unfair to either not read people's posts or make a massive unsubstantiated leap by presuming anyone who speaks out about one group must therefore support another. No need for it.

We shouldn't need to keep repeating neutrality especially when some seem hell bent on ignoring it anyway.

 

[hilts]

YFW? heard of the Ottomans and Moors?

Wasn't that Eastenders rather than Corrie?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Greater Israel is all it's ever been about. Israeli administration after Israeli administration authorising the illegal seizure of land in the West Bank, with innumerable Palestinians killed. That's been going on for generations, before their genocide began. And if people can't see that they have eyes on the surrounding Arab states, they're blind. Or just don't give a fuck. I'd lean towards the latter.

Regardless, innocent people being killed, including a poor fucking child, is down to evil; and that comes in all colours and guises. I only hope the coward that survived knows he has achieved nothing, and the rest of his existence will be misery. Hate never wins.

Utter bollocks. The Palestinians have turned down viable offers from both the British mandate and Israel for nearly 100 years. The Jordanians and Egyptians could have also given them the states they wanted, using the pre-1967 lines. The problem is they want a Greater Palestine far more than Israel wants a Greater Israel.

 

[oldius]

Israel’s long history of rejecting peace with Palestinians

Israel has always chosen violence over diplomacy, rejecting Palestinian and regional peace offers in order to maximise its territorial expansion

www.newarab.com

News & Articles | Daniel Sadan - Bending Over Backwards: Israel's Extraordinary Peace Proposals and Palestinian Rejectionism

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of the most complex and enduring geopolitical issues of our time, marked by decades of violence, failed negotiations, and unfulfilled aspirations for peace. Central to this conflict are the repeated attempts by Israel to reach a resolution through peace...

www.danielsadan.com

Two articles, one from each side, each blaming the other for rejection of proposals.
The victims of this are, of course, the people of the region who, like people right across the globe, wish to live in peace and not under occupation or daily threat.

This requires multinational intervention, clearly. For me, it would aways begin with an end to occupation. I am not sure how talks can even start when one nation occupies another. And I apply this to Ukraine too.

 

[Palerider]

If anyone has committed war crimes then they should be tried and convicted. Hating someone is not a war crime. The International Court already has a warrant for Netanyahu:

On 21 November 2024, following an investigation of war crimes and crimes against humanity, the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for two senior Israeli officials, Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, and Yoav Gallant, the former Minister of Defense of Israel

But surely you believe Hamas should be brought to justice for the October 7th attrocities? Yes or No will do.

 

[stonerblue]

People who commit public mass murders should be executed. Someone tell me I’m wrong.

Wrong

 

[stonerblue]

Still not been to one, which is actually a fucking disgrace considering I live in the district.

No it's not. Too much like hard work that Shakespeare geezers words.

 

[youngbob]

No. I’m saying the West is under threat from Islamists. They hate us; they want Islam and Islamic culture to be the dominant force- religious, political, cultural. And their numbers are increasing daily.

Is it not the case that humanity as a whole is under threat from extremism in all its forms?

 

[johnnytapia]

Utter bollocks. The Palestinians have turned down viable offers from both the British mandate and Israel for nearly 100 years. The Jordanians and Egyptians could have also given them the states they wanted, using the pre-1967 lines. The problem is they want a Greater Palestine far more than Israel wants a Greater Israel.

I’m always reminded of this from Clive James where he discusses the Arab states and their attitudes on the Palestinians:

 

[oldius]

But surely you believe Hamas should be brought to justice for the October 7th attrocities? Yes or No will do.

I am not sure what you don't understand from my posts.

ANYONE killing innocent people should be brought to justice...ANYONE!

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Distraction from Trump’s deranged post about Reiner.

Exactly that, but it appears not to have worked

 

[Blue and true]

Utter bollocks. The Palestinians have turned down viable offers from both the British mandate and Israel for nearly 100 years. The Jordanians and Egyptians could have also given them the states they wanted, using the pre-1967 lines. The problem is they want a Greater Palestine far more than Israel wants a Greater Israel.

Have they turned them down, or have Israel reneged on diplomatic promises made time after time? The Oslo Accords, to use just one example, failed primarily because illegal settling continued; those incursions rendered the rest of the treaty worthless. The Palestinian Authority was superficial and never truly granted Palestine sovereignty over its land and its people. It's interesting you bring up the British mandate because one of the reasons Israel (a tiny Hebrew state in a vast region that is otherwise Arabic) has been able to act with impunity all these years is because of Western supervision and soft power. Ultimately, there is more evidence of a prospective Greater Israel being formed than there is a Greater Palestine. I don't think that's an unfair conclusion to draw, do you?

I don't want to detract from the real issue here; Jews being murdered for being Jewish. It's heinous, and it's good Jews like yourself that are caused real heartache. Do you think Netanyahu cares one iota about what happened in Sydney? Of course not, he and Herzog have already weaponised it. This issue is close to your heart so I won't deign to imagine you how feel when atrocities like this take place, but I will say this unequivocally, I'm not anti-Semitic. I'm not Islamophobic. I don't have one racist bone in my body, and I'd stake the lives of my nephews and nieces on that sincerity. I'm a secular individual, so, and I don't mean this in any disrespectful way to people of Abrahamic faiths, I look at the Israel-Palestine tragedy through an impartial lens. At least, I like to think I do. And I recognise there is evil on both sides; but one side exerts that evil much more concertedly, and has done for a very long time.

 

[Blue and true]

No. I’m saying the West is under threat from Islamists. They hate us; they want Islam and Islamic culture to be the dominant force- religious, political, cultural. And their numbers are increasing daily.

The classic Islamophication of the West trope. As unfounded, callous, and downright dangerous as the anti-Semitic tropes that bigots throw around: the Jews run the banks, they run the entertainment industry, they own all the money in the world.

Heard it all before, a salvo for idiots. I'll be sure to ask my Muslim friend and colleague when reading from the Qur'an and practicing morning prayer will be incumbent upon me. He's a good enough lad to give me the heads up.

 

[normskih]

The thing is, I could pick up the Bible tonight (not that I’ve got one) and spend the whole night picking out passages that instruct me to kill hearthens and unbelievers.

Even Jesus supposedly said and it says it in the Bible, ‘Now where are my enemies who didn't want me to be king? Bring them here and kill them before me’.

All the Abrahamic mythologies need reformation, secularisation and modernisation. They’re all utterly out of date in the modern world.

The bad thing about Islam and the Quran is that it’s never been through this before so, despite being the newest of the Abrahamic mythologies, it’s even more out of date than Christianity is.

In the context of Luke 19:27, it wasn’t a command by Jesus to slay people.

 

[robbieh]

But surely you believe Hamas should be brought to justice for the October 7th attrocities? Yes or No will do.

They have been. They've all been executed without trial.

 

[Palerider]

I am not sure what you don't understand from my posts.

ANYONE killing innocent people should be brought to justice...ANYONE!

My apologies. I had looked at your earlier posts (see below) where you seemed to offer (to me anyway) a perfunctury couple of lines of condemnation of Bondi and then a full on message from Hamas headquarters with no mention of the massacre and kidnappings on October the 7th or any mentions of sanctions or court action against the Palestinian perpetrators. Just sanctions against Israel and Netanyahu. Now that I know you think, like me, that Hamas MUST also be brought before a court to face justice for their murderous and evil actions I think we are both more or less of the same mind.

@moomba made a wonderful post earlier, though I hoped this thread would keep away from politics for at least a day. I utterly condemn the attack on Bondi Beach, just as I did the attack at the Manchester Synagogue.
Already, there has been a lot of talk of radical Islam in this thread. The people carrying out the killing of innocent people are to be held in utter contempt, and I hope that justice is done.
There are 65,000 officially dead Palestinians since October 2023. They have been killed by Israel. The Gaza strip has been levelled, and Israeli spokepeople tell of it being the first phase of a redevelopment project. The west supplies weapons and training to Israel in support of that, and of a near 80-year seizure of land, homes and life.
If that is allowed to continue, there will always be terrorist attacks, just as there were in England when the British army occupied Ireland. Israel MUST be sanctioned AND Netanyahu brought to justice in the International courts. Only then will there be ANY hope, and I say this under the presumption that the perpetrators of this heinous and cowardly attack did so in the name of their religion.

 

[oldius]

This is the problem of lack of objectivity.
I have stated on multiple occasions my condemnation of all terrorist attacks.
I hope that the surviving attacker receives trial, conviction, and severe sentencing for the atrocities that he and his father committed. They inflicted terror on the innocent and there is NO excuse.

What I will not do is to condemn those acts of terror and say nothing about the terror faced in Palestine on a daily basis - a conflict that did not begin on October 7th 2023. We can go back even further than the Nakba of 1948 with the forced relocation of 700,000 Palestinians under threat of death if we wish, or we can just focus on the continued genocide in Gaza and the killing of 65,000 people in 2 years. Netanyahu has an arrest warrant for war crimes and the occupation of Gaza is still a reality, as is the withholding of aid, while the UK and US fund this with taxpayer money. I am yet to hear any words of condemnation from you for this, despite you continually pestering me for denouncement of Hamas, even in the face of other posters like @hilts informing you of the consistency of my neutrality.

My apologies. I had looked at your earlier posts (see below) where you seemed to offer (to me anyway) a perfunctury couple of lines of condemnation of Bondi and then a full on message from Hamas headquarters with no mention of the massacre on October the 7th or any mentions of sanctions or court action against the Palestinian perpetrators. Just sanctions against Israel and Netanyahu. Now that I know you think, like me, that Hamas MUST also be brought before a court to face justice for their murderous and evil actions I think we are both more or less of the same mind.