Jim Ratcliffe - claims the UK is being “colonised”

[The perfect fumble]

We had specific DEI officers in our workplace until recently. Most of whom considered getting into those roles as far bloody better than dealing with the public day in and day out.

A DEI officer!!!

"Just like the fans of the Invisible Man, we're not really here"

 

[mackenzie]

A DEI officer!!!

"Just like the fans of the Invisible Man, we're not really here"

Absobloodylutely. ;-)

And strangely enough the 2 that I remember in the last few years (that moved onto that team...at district office obviously) were 2 of the laziest bastards who thought themselves too sodding precious to deal with the "real" stuff at "grunt" level.
They were much cosier in their added "bubble."
The useless twats.

 

[The perfect fumble]

No it’s conflating of two things. Here we have the equality act which means employers have to treat people the same. In the US they tried to remedy historic racial bias by incentivising hiring people from minority backgrounds.

Two very different things, but because American far right money is propping up reform and Robinson etc in the UK and trying to bring these US culture war issues over here, those people are now changing the language used and it’s started seeping into here. But the UK government never incentivised hiring people from minority backgrounds over white candidates so the row, and any British people railing against it as some sort of persecution is just nonsense and an obvious indicator that someone’s been pulled down the US culture war rabbit hole.

You sad man....

Let me take you back eleven years....

Barack Obama was President 20 January 2009 – 20 January 2017

This is from the UK National Audit Office all those years ago....

Equality, diversity, and inclusion in the civil service​

Report – Value for money
Date: 25 Jun 2015
Departments: Cabinet Office

The civil service must build on the progress it has made in managing equality, diversity and inclusion and place greater emphasis on departments’ valuing and maximizing the contribution of every member of their staff. This is more likely to deliver the business benefits than solely a focus on levels of representation of groups with ‘protected characteristics’.

https://www.nao.org.uk/reports/diversity-equality-and-inclusion-in-the-civil-service/

A word of advice, stop digging.

 

[domalino]

You sad man....

Let me take you back eleven years....

Barack Obama was President 20 January 2009 – 20 January 2017

This is from the UK National Audit Office all those years ago....

Equality, diversity, and inclusion in the civil service​

Report – Value for money
Date: 25 Jun 2015
Departments: Cabinet Office

The civil service must build on the progress it has made in managing equality, diversity and inclusion and place greater emphasis on departments’ valuing and maximizing the contribution of every member of their staff. This is more likely to deliver the business benefits than solely a focus on levels of representation of groups with ‘protected characteristics’.

https://www.nao.org.uk/reports/diversity-equality-and-inclusion-in-the-civil-service/

A word of advice, stop digging.

To quote your source.

The Cabinet Office has found that some people are leaving the civil service because they find the culture exclusive. Staff surveys indicate significant differences in perception between some diverse groups. For example, female and minority ethnic respondents feel significantly more engaged than their immediate peers at lower grades but the opposite holds true at senior grades. Also staff with long term health conditions feel less engaged and, moreover, are more likely to feel discriminated against, bullied or harassed, as are lesbian, gay, bisexual civil servants at the most junior grades.

So when you get angry about this, what you’re saying is that you think women, disabled people and minority groups should not feel that they are treated the same in the workplace. You’re saying that businesses shouldn’t take steps to treat all their employees the same, and make sure there isn’t discrimination at work.

This is what you’re angry at. Equality.

Well done.

This is your problem. The most extreme aspects of DEI in the US never made it over here because they wouldn’t pass the equality act. You can’t give preferential treatment to hiring someone regardless of who they are. So when you gobble up all that far right American culture war nonsense, the bit that reasonable people might actually disagree with over there, never existed here, and all you’re left with is arguing against people being treated equally, based on their ability and not their background.

 

[Vic]

Posted in the Trump thread (Democrat hoping to take Texas senate seat). Seems rather apposite for the way this thread has gone.

 

[The perfect fumble]

To quote your source.



So when you get angry about this, what you’re saying is that you think women, disabled people and minority groups should not feel that they are treated the same in the workplace. You’re saying that businesses shouldn’t take steps to treat all their employees the same, and make sure there isn’t discrimination at work.

This is what you’re angry at. Equality.

Well done.

This is your problem. The most extreme aspects of DEI in the US never made it over here because they wouldn’t pass the equality act. You can’t give preferential treatment to hiring someone regardless of who they are. So when you gobble up all that far right American culture war nonsense, the bit that reasonable people might actually disagree with over there, never existed here, and all you’re left with is arguing against people being treated equally, based on their ability and not their background.

"It is a tale / Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, / Signifying nothing".

 

[bluethrunthru]

Remember Hawker Siddeley being connected in the sixties but not exactly where it was located apart from the south coast.

Boscombe Down is next to Salisbury Plain inland - its where they test fly planes and train pilots including foreign ones.

Boscombe is a delightful seaside town between Bournemouth and Christchurch

 

[domalino]

"It is a tale / Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, / Signifying nothing".

Standard response when someone points out how stupid your arguments are.

Seriously, a few pages ago you were telling everyone how you’re definitely not racist, you just want people to be judged on their character, and now you’re criticising the civil office saying it’s taking steps to stop minorities and women being discriminated against in the workplace.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Standard response when someone points out how stupid your arguments are.

Seriously, a few pages ago you were telling everyone how you’re definitely not racist, you just want people to be judged on their character, and now you’re criticising the civil office saying it’s taking steps to stop minorities and women being discriminated against in the workplace.

As it doesn't exist here I can't see how it does that.

Still you must be right, coz you always are.

 

[mackenzie]

Standard response when someone points out how stupid your arguments are.

Seriously, a few pages ago you were telling everyone how you’re definitely not racist, you just want people to be judged on their character, and now you’re criticising the civil office saying it’s taking steps to stop minorities and women being discriminated against in the workplace.

The civil service does not discriminate against women and minorities in the workplace.

 

[domalino]

The civil service does not discriminate against women and minorities in the workplace.

I’m not sure what the point of this comment is?

I quoted the source fumble poster, it’s from 2015 and it’s a commitment to do better at treating people equally because people in the civil service felt they weren’t when consulted and the civil service found out it was a reason people were quitting.

If you’ve got an issue with the idea the civil service was not treating people equally in 2015 then take it up with them I guess.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

We had specific DEI officers in our workplace until recently. Most of whom considered getting into those roles as far bloody better than dealing with the public day in and day out.

Wow DEI officer! That's crazy. Do they have powers ?

 

[mackenzie]

I’m not sure what the point of this comment is?

I quoted the source fumble poster, it’s from 2015 and it’s a commitment to do better at treating people equally because people in the civil service felt they weren’t when consulted and the civil service found out it was a reason people were quitting.

If you’ve got an issue with the idea the civil service was not treating people equally in 2015 then take it up with them I guess.

It doesn't discriminate. That's from a "lived" experience of 45 years in that workplace. In fact, it's a workplace that promotes people who toe the line, say the "right" things and embrace the ethos of the day. Nothing else and never has been in the years I have worked there.
The reasons people were quitting then were from a variety of reasons.
I know because I worked with some of them.

This insistence that they "marginalized" people because of their colour, gender/whatever is ridiculous.

 

[mackenzie]

Wow DEI officer! That's crazy. Do they have powers ?

Yes. The "power" to get out of dealing with the public on the front line and telling the rest of us how we should think.

 

[domalino]

It doesn't discriminate. That's from a "lived" experience of 45 years in that workplace. In fact, it's a workplace that promotes people who toe the line, say the "right" things and embrace the ethos of the day. Nothing else and never has been in the years I have worked there.
The reasons people were quitting then were from a variety of reasons.
I know because I worked with some of them.

This insistence that they "marginalized" people because of their colour, gender/whatever is ridiculous.

So what is your point? That every single one of the civil service workers who reported it lied when asked about their experiences?

Maybe your experience wasn’t the same as everyone else’s.

Again kind of a side issue, the only reason I quoted from it was because fumble posted it as a source to illustrate what he’s actually angry with.

 

[mackenzie]

So what is your point? That the civil service workers lied when asked about their experiences?

Maybe your experience wasn’t the same as everyone else’s.

Women in Senior Civil Service: Increased from 17.7% in 1997 to 48.2% in 2024.
Ethnic Minority in Senior Civil Service: Increased from 4% in 2006 to 9% in 2020.

That's a quote from AI.

That is not indicative of marginalization or discrimination.
If it had been 20, or even 40 years, on from that 2015 finding then maybe.

 

[domalino]

Women in Senior Civil Service: Increased from 17.7% in 1997 to 48.2% in 2024.
Ethnic Minority in Senior Civil Service: Increased from 4% in 2006 to 9% in 2020.

That's a quote from AI.

That is not indicative of marginalization or discrimination.

Again I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. The report we already quoted explicitly mentioned those figures. That’s what it’s saying. We have made progress in hiring equally and our numbers now show that.

That’s what fumble is angry with. That’s what he is calling “the cult of DEI”. The bit I quoted is where they lay out why they took action (ie the only 17% women in 1998) and I said it’s a good thing they did. He thinks it’s bad.

 

[bluethrunthru]

It doesn't discriminate. That's from a "lived" experience of 45 years in that workplace. In fact, it's a workplace that promotes people who toe the line, say the "right" things and embrace the ethos of the day. Nothing else and never has been in the years I have worked there.
The reasons people were quitting then were from a variety of reasons.
I know because I worked with some of them.

This insistence that they "marginalized" people because of their colour, gender/whatever is ridiculous.

The workplace and law has changed so much in 45 years. In the last 45 years, UK workplace equality law has transitioned from fragmented, sector-specific rules to a consolidated, comprehensive framework under the Equality Act from which key changes include banning direct and indirect discrimination in the 9 protected characteristics bringing pay transparency and strengthening pregnancy and maternity and paternity as well as disability rights and helping to focus on sexual harassment. Its a brave employer who gets rid of DEI (not a UK term) posts - hope they alert their insurers.

 

[domalino]

The workplace and law has changed so much in 45 years. In the last 45 years, UK workplace equality law has transitioned from fragmented, sector-specific rules to a consolidated, comprehensive framework under the Equality Act from which key changes include banning direct and indirect discrimination in the 9 protected characteristics bringing pay transparency and strengthening pregnancy and maternity and paternity as well as disability rights and helping to focus on sexual harassment. Its a brave employer who gets rid of DEI (not a UK term) posts - hope they alert their insurers.

Farage today said he plans to scrap the equality act by the way.

And reduce minimum wage, which (to steer us back on topic a bit) will be great news for billionaires like Ratcliffe.

 

[west didsblue]

Remember Hawker Siddeley being connected in the sixties but not exactly where it was located apart from the south coast.

Hawker Siddeley was never at Boscombe Down or at Hurn (Bournemouth Airport) which is not far from Boscombe, Bournemouth. Vickers were at Hurn for a while. The nearest HSA were to the south coast was Kingston upon Thames and Dunsfold, Surrey.