I'm going to be honest with you I know we can't sustain ourselves being independent and i dont want independence, but it's nothing to do with that with people my age and younger it's just a disdain for any English party i dont think they are thinking logically but more emotionally. generally don't know where this disdain has come from.
Local Elections | Thu 7 May 26
- Thread starter The Future’s Blue!
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I'm going to be honest with you I know we can't sustain ourselves being independent and i dont want independence, but it's nothing to do with that with people my age and younger it's just a disdain for any English party i dont think they are thinking logically but more emotionally. generally don't know where this disdain has come from.
Well firstly we need to establish which UK party supposedly has "fascist" policies?Might be worth knowing that in the book depicted below, bestselling Yale philosopher Jason Stanley points out that fascist politics do not necessarily lead to an explicitly undemocratic fascist state (Hungary under Orban and Trump’s America are two obvious examples).
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While there’s no substitute for actually reading Stanley’s publications (his latest - Erasing History: How Fascists Rewrite the Past To Control the Future is also pretty good), this link should enable anyone who is interested to play Fascist Bingo with, say, Reform, Restore Britain, and Advance UK’s policies, in order to decide for themselves whether the cap fits:
Jason Stanley - The ten pillars of fascist politics - Brave New Europe
This is from a twitter thread put together by Richard Murphy on his website Tax Research UK Jason Stanley is an American philosopher who is the Jacob Urowsky Professor of Philosophy at Yale University. This [...]braveneweurope.com
There are none that I'm aware of.
Plaid"s version of Welsh "independence" is based on Wales rejoining the EU so the nation can be recognised as the lost cause snd economic basket case that it is, so it can then get lots of free shit alongside the likes of Bulgaria and Romania.
Franny 1234
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Can't say ive read any proof.
But here in Denton we now have 25 mini markets/vape shops ( over taken mens hairdressers ) atleast a dozen of them open late and close earlier and have very little items for sale in some cases very little space to display their stock.
And in some case only a few shops away from a rival mini market/vape shop.
Micky Blue
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You may mock… but them tits voted in 2 green mayors :P
Bluesince1979
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I live in a very small town of approx 12,000 people, when i moved here 15 years ago there was 2 barbers. There is now 7. 5 of which are ‘Turkish Barbers’.
Some tick along, i myself go to one , they are all kurds. Some you barely see a customer and theyve been open 2 years! Seems pretty unsustainable from the outside. Who knows eh?
I knew a girl who worked in a turkish barbers once. She paid no rent for the chair and kept all the money she received from the hair cuts :/
Not sure how the owner made money 8-/
hilts
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Im not sure anyone was blaming all Turkish barbers across the nation. Anyone deflection from real issues is just the usual on here.
Nickyweaver01
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Brexit has failed.
MAGA has imploded.
The same people who funded these political endevaours are funding Reform.
Reform led councils will fail badly.
Reform majority government would fail badly.
Most people who vote for these things have a lower IQ and can be easily convinced by propaganda on Facebook, X, TikTok and YouTube .
The left will have to wait for the failures of the right because cannot compete with the funding of Billionaires who seek deregulation through the anti immigration and Ethno nationalist proxies.
MAGA has imploded.
The same people who funded these political endevaours are funding Reform.
Reform led councils will fail badly.
Reform majority government would fail badly.
Most people who vote for these things have a lower IQ and can be easily convinced by propaganda on Facebook, X, TikTok and YouTube .
The left will have to wait for the failures of the right because cannot compete with the funding of Billionaires who seek deregulation through the anti immigration and Ethno nationalist proxies.
That is possible. But Brexit was a vote to remove EU immigration. French, Portugese Italian etc. The impression i got was people were just sick of immigration, I remember a fair bit of anti Polish sentiment in the early 2010's.
The one i find fascinating, is the Sikh community in Britain. They seemed well loved everywhere, i must say any i met are brilliant, skin colour or religion has never been a issue with them for most communties. I think this is more nuanced than light color good black colour bad.
Agree with you on reform, people criticise the Green policies for been unrealistic, Reforms policies are non existient.
hilts
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Going round in circles, the make up of the ukranian army part is bizarre but as we are not rejoining the EU and we will have closer ties if Labour or whoever remainers vote for gets it act together then all is good, btw we are still in Europe and can still co-operate with other countries. We have already done this.
Im glad at least one of you is moving on and needn't blame Brexit for all the woes of their political party.
NCA report
Operation Machinize: Hundreds of barbershops targeted in NCA-coordinated crackdown
Barbershops and other cash-intensive businesses across England have been targeted by police and other law enforcement of...
Sometimes you don't need a weatherman.....
Jimmieblue
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I agree, the word “fascist” really ought to be used sparingly and also appropriately. It’s become a word banded about inappropriately along with “far right”. The so-called “left” have banded these words around, labelling decent people with them, ever since the rape gangs era. It’s time to stop all this hate and get some decency back into society, none of this division.
Cultures do evolve but they do all have central themes and outlooks that continue. Importing people with totally different cultures and views, at the numbers we have, erodes British culture and makes it less dominant. What people are seeing is a trend of erosion and they are naturally panicking.
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Stopping out of control population growth that the country cannot sustain and is making the country worse.
Illegal shops like vape shops, desert shops, takeaways (and their takeaway wars), restaurants and their illegal employees, changing the face of our high streets for the worse… and the huge amount of litter seen around these high streets in these areas… is one thing, but there is far more to it than that.
More people = more electricity demand, more water demand, more housing demand, more refuse and waste, more demand on landfill, more recycling demand, more imports, more traffic, more demand on public transport, more pollution, more demand on our greenfield, more demand on our farmland… that we simply cannot keep up with.
I’ve posted this a few times times but most never take it on board, most ignore it, and the few who did respond: one told me I’ve taken it from a far-right article from decades ago (that I’d never heard of because I’m really from a left of centre/social democrat stance) and another just gave me the reply of ‘bollocks’.
I don’t want a growing population in Britain. There are already too many people living on this island. Having a larger population who can pay more tax is far outstripped by many other factors:
With the current population size, the UK barely covers electricity demand in the Winter. Plus, it’s estimated that our current water industry will not be able to cover the demand for water required by the growing population by the 2030s.
Are there any initiatives or investment planned to combat this and keep us serviceable for electricity and water with the surges in immigration and ever increasing population?
And even if there are, will these then have a knock-on effect of increasing pollution which is already a massive problem?
The UK is already struggling to cope with the amount of waste/refuse it has to process. Recycling plants can’t turn around the amount of waste it faces, which leads to much going to landfill when investment in landfill has pretty much ended because successive govts have said that we are going to recycle more. And we are running out of landfill space to the point that we may have no more land to use for waste storage within the next eight years. So where’s the waste going to go with an increased population?
Our current cities are heaving. Traffic and the amount of pollution that comes from it, is at dangerous levels. Greater Manchester has some of the most polluted air in Europe; Nitrogen Dioxide levels from motor vehicles in Greater Manchester already significantly exceed World Health Organisation guidelines. Air pollution contributes to 1,200 annual early deaths in Greater Manchester. 1 in 20 of GtrMcr adult deaths are linked to air pollution.
A growing population through immigration of non-skills-shortage-target-people, means there’s a surplus unskilled workforce. Industries like Tech in Manchester are facing huge shortages in a skilled workforce yet we have hundreds of thousands of people coming into the country who don’t meet these required skills. Too few of the right people are coming into this country. The plan around who comes in is very poor. We have a surplus population of people we don’t need. What we need more than anything is to create skills course qualifications for the current population so that employment balances out properly, not just get more and more people in with the hope that some might be able to cover the skills shortage.
Housing in existing cities is poor and insufficient. There aren’t enough homes and, where homes are vacant, the state of them can be appalling and you wouldn’t use them for keeping farm animals, never mind human families with children. There are too many rogue landlords taking advantage of tenants. There are also instances of double the amount of people living in homes than they are supposed to house in inner-city areas.
Current towns and cities, especially Manchester, feel overpopulated. There’s been a net increased population of Manchester Salford Trafford Stockport Tameside and Oldham who’ve arrived in this country in just the last two years. Yet, there are no new cities being built and existing cities are not increasing at that rate. In existing cities, everywhere is extremely busy all the time. If there were plans to develop places like Carlisle, Dundee, Ipswich, Bangor, Plymouth etc. into 2million population cities with mass house building and infrastructure programmes, fair enough. But there isn’t. The govt aim to build 300,000 new homes a year yet that will still fall short of demand for the population size there is currently, never mind a larger population. Plus, even if there were the right amount of houses being built and available for the growing population, there isn’t the infrastructure to educate, care for, keep healthy and transport all these people around.
Plus even if new cities were built or small cities became big cities, it still wouldn’t help with the need to generate the required electricity and water - and food - demand for more people because it’s not there. And, even if everything was in place for it, pollution would still be made worse so why would we want to do that anyway?
Building new cities and increasing the the size of existing cities means that we would lose green belt land, natural wild habitats, farming land (which has further knock-on effects of not producing enough food for the increasing population and increases of imports which means extra cost and even further pollution), and we would lose parts of our beautiful countryside.
Over 72% of land in England is already farmed land, less than 15% of England is natural wild habitat, with the rest being urban built on or urban parkland. Low wild habitat and low woodland coverage in Britain has lead to poor soil quality and carbon emmisions are not locked away. One-crop farming also leads to poor soil quality and a lack of biodiversity. Soil has degraded and eroded, the quality of the food that we grow and graze on farmland is decreasing and it is a contributor to poor health with lack of nutrients and even a reduction in the quality, size and diversity of the microbiome in our guts, which is one of the most important aspects of health (arguably the most important). Plus, we are taking away the small % of wild habitats we have.
None of this is a good thing and all of it gets worse with a growing population.
An increasing population puts further demand on our already struggling public services.
Crime has significantly increased. A decade ago, the Police in England and Wales recorded around 4m annual crimes committed. There’s been a steady increase in that time and in recent years it’s not been below 6.5m. Population increases will see an increase in crime. Why should people have to put up with that as a side effect of increasing the population? It’s not something people want.
Plus with this, the less likely the general population are to get required help from the Police, because they are too busy with the amount of crime being committed in general.
The UK is one of the most unhealthy countries in Europe (granted, that is mainly due to poor lifestyles and diets). The strain on the NHS is huge, to the point that the NHS cannot cope with a 69m population it has now, never mind how it would cope with an increasing population.
If the growing elderly population is a growing problem now, what will it be like when everyone of working age now gets to to retirement age? They’ll need an even bigger NHS and care service, there’ll need to be an even bigger pension pot. So what then? Just constantly flood the island with more and more people? Constantly putting more and more strain on everything? And house them where? Feed them how? Keep the taps and electricity flowing how? Reduce pollution how? Stop them from contributing to and being a victim of the growing pollution problem how?
There are also far too many issues with an ever polarised and disunited nation with increased immigration. And it seriously is not just an issue with far right bigots, even if the rise of the far-right directly naturally correlates with increased immigration. Every-day, normal, fair-minded people with no extreme views are seeing ever increasing issues with ever increasing immigration.
Many inner-city areas have just become immigrant dumping zones. This sees the existing population feel grievances with the state that these areas become. Small things like some, if not all, the pubs and social clubs shutting in these areas means that social spaces for existing populations decrease or disappear. Pubs and social clubs are often the heartbeat of communities, as places of social communion, sports teams and events. British culture suffers without them and in many places with high immigration, there are no pubs left. The types of businesses in these areas change to cater more for the immigrant population as well; from clothing to food to faith-based sector businesses and charities.
Immigrants being housed in hotels means that the existing local population lose their local place where work meetings, work training, Christmas parties, wakes, birthday parties, school proms, university balls, dance clubs, fitness clubs, wedding receptions, anniversaries, or have people who would visit friends+family for a weekend and need somewhere to stay etc. at these hotels which they were built for and were used for previously, cannot happen anymore. They’ve been taken away from existing communities and their grievances with that mostly have nothing to do with who’s there and nothing to do with being right wing, but simply that another community hub is taken away from the community.
The existing population in these areas, and not just the far-right bigots amongst them, naturally tend to end up relocating from these areas because of accumulations of things like this happening because they don’t like how their local community changes. And you never hear of people wanting to move to these areas. This then creates segregation within our towns and cities, which makes integration into British culture more difficult for concentrated immigrant areas. This is something we should be avoiding as a society but is a natural societal move with increasing immigration.
Another negative that comes from this is that right wing bigots cotton onto it and drive it through as an issue for the whole country which sees the rise in far right sentiment towards immigration. They completely miss all the pertinent negatives to it all and drive it as a cultural issue only. It is a cultural issue but not solely a cultural issue. A knock-on negative that comes from that are then the left wing idiots cotton onto the far right issue, who just do anything to argue and shout down the right wing bigots, start to defend immigration at all costs but - exactly like the far right - also completely miss the pertinent negatives to it all, even purposely ignoring them so they don’t gain any traction in discussion because they cannot have anything the far right agree with being discussed in a wider discussion.
And overall, it just adds to the ever growing polarisation of society.
But the roads are a mess, road networks in cities can’t cope with the amount of vehicles on the roads, transport is a mess, schools can’t offer places for the amount of children there are in the country (300,000 children are not on role at a school), white working class children (especially boys) are being left behind in school performance, wages are kept suppressed, poverty is high, the gap between rich and poor is at an all-time high, pollution is at dangerous levels, the environment is impacted and often cannot be reversed, food is becoming less nutritious, the job market is all over the shop, public services cannot cope, housing is in crisis, crime is ever increasing, social cohesion is collapsing and getting ever more polarised, racial segregation is becoming facet of our communities… all because of an increase in the population and immigration.
There’s no way that there are more positives than negatives to having a larger population and further immigration.
We have the infrastructure in this country for about 60m people. Yet, we’re now at 69m and by the 2040s the current rate of increase would see a 77m population. This is a massive ‘NO!’ for me. We are not ready for it, we are already not coping.
Every single negative aspect to a growing population increases with an ever growing population. Even where people draw positives from a growing population, they can only be maintained and addressed through an even higher growth in population because it’s unsustainable and with that comes all the negatives from an ever growing population.
More people = a worse country on an island like ours.
This doesn’t meant I think people should vote for right wing populist parties. But because the new left call people who think this way ‘racist’ and ‘thick’ and either shout them down or refuse to listen to them, and no left wing party apart from the small Social Democratic Party (who most people have never heard of) are offering solutions to their concerns, I can see why people have turned to right wing populism.
I didn’t vote (again!) the other day, but I can see why people are voting this way.
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blueparrot
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Yes I try not to use the word fascist,though can understand people looking for a short cut when talking about reform instead of listing, Tory ship jumpimg ,bigotted, Xenophobic, lying, Trump wannabees.
That was the premise of the food stores statement.
Regardless, if there is an issue then gather evidence, charge, try, and convict.
I also support drug legalisation though which could irradicate the majority of issues around attached criminality.
You can put a piece of paper between the Irish and the British. There’s literally nobody concerned with Irish immigration today.
The Norfolk Blue
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Manchester is Blue …. I mean Green …. or maybe both :D
Brexit was never about italians, Portuguese , or polish immigration - it was about people believing it would stop the influx from the middle East and africa, and groups like the Slovak Roma.
The Northern Baptist
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You don’t get to change the demographics of the country like they have over the last 30 years with zero pushback from the native population. If you think you could do that, then you are stupid and naive.