VAR Discussion Thread

Interesting that two big var discussions have gone arse way.

Today, and against us. Gabriel should be serving a 3 match ban. Something stinks.

The fact that press/pundits nearly all agree 100% that both decisions were 100% wrong is a worry.
This decisions have affected both the top and bottom of the league.
 
MCFC1993 said:
Time to get rid now.

Deciding a league title at the monitor and picking 1 offensive foul in a sea defensive fouls summed up that it isn't fit for purpose.

Football won't be back until VAR is gone.
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I don’t think its an option wether to keep or get rid.

It’s literally used to dictate what happens. Its actually bent as fuck. It isnt football anymore. The game has gone.

It’s on record that Richard Scudamore wants a new PL winner every six years.
 
itsnevereasy said:
Some journalists do ask good questions, I’d love to see him interviewed by Martin Samual. Or chuck him on one of those programs with the fans on it.

VAR is awful and a tool to manipulate results.
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It was happening pre-var when referee's were mic'd up. I would say rewatch the City Chelsea game with Alti in charge when he failed to send Luis off for DGSO, but it appears to have been airbrushed from history on YouTube

He let loads of snide stuff go for Chelsea, and did his upmost best to derail us that day. Chelsea went on to win the league that season.

'Strategic plan' in action?

You decide.
 
The benchmark for contact on keepers was out Bournemouth game. Not sufficient contact to impede. That was the precedent for this season so how the fuck it’s not a penalty or goal I don’t know
 
Goal. Line. Technology.

That's what we wanted, that's what the furore was mostly about. Not offside decisions down to an atom-sized 'advantage'. Legitimate goals have been ruled 'off' due to millimetres. Human error has been replaced with technological accuracy down to minute, otherwise undetectable measures. Were you to go back and assess every goal in history, i'd wager 65% of them would be chalked off.

But that was football, and a mm advantage is no real advantage at all. Being a clear two feet offside? Sure. A pinky toe? Hardly. I'm sure their minds were in the right place, but the execution of the product has been abused and irreperably damaged the trust of football supporters. Funny isnt' it, how VAR never intervenes with clear acts of diving and play acting from players.

Nah, VAR is a failed experiment that has damaged football, making it seem scripted, sapping all excitement. FIFA were intially opposed and reluctant to introduce it but it was fan demands that changed their minds. Well, listen to the fans again; it sucks, it doesn't add anything positive and we're all mostly agreed the game is better without it. (But you can keep the goal line tech)
 
Manc Born & Bred said:
Said it before, the technology is fine if all the angles are shown and in full speed. It’s the idiots running it. If someone isn’t capable of refereeing on the pitch what makes anyone think they can sit in a room and ref a game by watching it on TV. It’s been bent for decades and it’s getting worse. The fact we have won what we have is all the more remarkable.
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Neil Swarbrick (4th ref in our match v QPR in 2012) was instrumental in the running of VAR and training referee’s going back a few years ago. He gave up his job at BAE Systems in Salmesbury to take the role. He said, VAR would only intervene when a clear and obvious mistake happens. He also added replays would be in “real time” and not slow motion and games wouldn’t be re-refereed.

How wrong he was, that was a shambles today, the ref didn’t give it and it took VAR 5 minutes to not make a decision but to put it back to the ref, clear and obvious out of the window, bent. The ref is a well known Dipper supporter from his days growing up in Ashton, on the estate next to Curzon Ashton to be precise.
 
I think a big part of the problem is VAR officials calling for a review.

GLT works -- no problem.

As in hockey, any goal can be checked for offside. VAR can do that then alert a ref if a goal is good or not.

But for fouls? The referee makes the onfield decision. If he isn't sure about his call and wants to review it, he can -- not be alerted to something he might have missed. He in his sole discretion with only his own input can look at VAR.

VAR "officials" should have no power. In fact, they shouldn't exist. Nothing should be "under review" by them. You need replay operators -- technicians who can press rewind and do slo-mo. Simple as.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I think a big part of the problem is VAR officials calling for a review.

GLT works -- no problem.

As in hockey, any goal can be checked for offside. VAR can do that then alert a ref if a goal is good or not.

But for fouls? The referee makes the onfield decision. If he isn't sure about his call and wants to review it, he can -- not be alerted to something he might have missed. He in his sole discretion with only his own input can look at VAR.

VAR "officials" should have no power. In fact, they shouldn't exist. Nothing should be "under review" by them. You need replay operators -- technicians who can press rewind and do slo-mo. Simple as.
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Gary Neville should have no power either, but the amount of times he's opened his rancid trap and VAR has miraculously fallen into lock-step with his 'unbiassed' opinion is way too often to be coincidental.
 
The problem with football refereeing is that it is inherently a game of subjective decisions. Even decisions which should in theory be factual - is someone offside, did they handle the ball - are coated in layers of subjectivity.

The response of the authorities (and let's be honest, many supporters as far as VAR is concerned - if you were one of the few against VAR when it was being discussed I doff my cap to you) has been to introduce new layers of subjectivity. There are now three: on-field referee, VAR, KMIP: the latter two frequently over-ruling previous decisions because, well, that is what happens with subjective decision-making.

None of them give definitive decisions that are accepted as final judgements because interpretations differ and/or rules and interpretations (the naive "letter of the law" argument) can't possibly address all potential scenarios. Dale fucking Johnson can wank himself silly over the decisions of the KMIP but they are just as prone to error as the on-field decisions and, at the end of the day, are led by referee interpretations (I don't even talk about the uselessness of VAR).

To cut a long rant short - simplify the laws of the game, replace "interpretations" with training of referees on taking factors into account and performance reviews to improve performance (I assume that happens but it's hard to tell atm), and use retrospective punishment for any cases where players are trying to "get one over the referee" - diving, hidden offences, unsportsmanlike conduct, swearing at / intimidating the referee.

Oh, and get rid of Webb the same time the PL gets rid of Masters - they are both useless cunts.
 
give it to gordon said:
Interesting that two big var discussions have gone arse way.

Today, and against us. Gabriel should be serving a 3 match ban. Something stinks.

The fact that press/pundits nearly all agree 100% that both decisions were 100% wrong is a worry.
This decisions have affected both the top and bottom of the league.
Click to expand...

The handball from Gabriel at our place in the first 3 minutes has been brushed aside too. He leaned down to block it with his arm, play on…
 
halfcenturyup said:
The problem with football refereeing is that it is inherently a game of subjective decisions. Even decisions which should in theory be factual - is someone offside, did they handle the ball - are coated in layers of subjectivity.

The response of the authorities (and let's be honest, many supporters as far as VAR is concerned - if you were one of the few against VAR when it was being discussed I doff my cap to you) has been to introduce new layers of subjectivity. There are now three: on-field referee, VAR, KMIP: the latter two frequently over-ruling previous decisions because, well, that is what happens with subjective decision-making.

None of them give definitive decisions that are accepted as final judgements because interpretations differ and/or rules and interpretations (the naive "letter of the law" argument) can't possibly address all potential scenarios. Dale fucking Johnson can wank himself silly over the decisions of the KMIP but they are just as prone to error as the on-field decisions and, at the end of the day, are led by referee interpretations (I don't even talk about the uselessness of VAR).

To cut a long rant short - simplify the laws of the game, replace "interpretations" with training of referees on taking factors into account and performance reviews to improve performance (I assume that happens but it's hard to tell atm), and use retrospective punishment for any cases where players are trying to "get one over the referee" - diving, hidden offences, unsportsmanlike conduct, swearing at / intimidating the referee.

Oh, and get rid of Webb the same time the PL gets rid of Masters - they are both useless cunts.
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Absolutely this. In 'the good old days' (pre-VAR) you were offside or not. Never mind interfering with play or in a different phase of play - you were simply offside or not. Easy. The more subjectivity allows for more grey areas and differing interpretations.
 
We will never, ever have an Aguero moment in the Premier League. Ever. For any team. Whilst VAR is here.

I can accept it is a foul on the goalie. What I can't accept is the many, many identical fouls not given this season, or the fouls on West Ham players which happen before Pablo touches Raya, and so influence the play, by Trossard and Rice including on Pablo himself. Apparently they checked these for a penalty according to the commentary, but if so I think we deserve hearing why they were ruled out? Rice and Trossard both not looking to play the ball only impede the opponent, making contact and restricting their movements. Isn't that exactly what Raya got the foul for?

For every goal your team scores in the premier league, every screamer, every nice bit of skill, every tap in, every wonder save, there's a var moment which is the exact opposite of the excitement, hope and pure emotion that football should be. It is killing the game, it is that bad.

I've gone from supporting the technology, to frustration at how it is implemented, to just wanting it gone. There's nothing exciting about watching a referee be told what he is watching at a monitor and why it should influence his view on what just happened, when the person telling him that has literally re-refereed that passage of play selectively and without any real come back.

Either he gives the goal or he gives a penalty. Either referee's see it as 'play with fire and get burned' with the amount of fouls going on, or they go by the chronological letter of the law, check the first foul, and give that. Which would clearly have been either rice or trossard still holding after the corner is taken.

Peter Schmeichael of all people has actually come out and said that if they're giving fouls for that since game one, then Arsenal would be nowhere near the top of he table. And he's spot on.
 
Everyone is interviewed after the game, players, managers, pundits yet the twats ruining the game are not, the press shoukd be allowed to question the referees and the ones at Stockley park and ask them why they made those decisions. Ask why a penalty wasn’t given for the holding on the West Ham players prior to the foul on Raya? They hide away and any critiscm (Rodri) and you are dragged over the coals, it’s ridiculous.
 
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