Enzo Fernandez

ALDN_Ko said:
How is it not racism? Why is it only the black players' ethnicity being brought up when there are white players who are not ethnically french? Griezmann's parents are of German and Portuguese descent, but they didn't sing about him. Not to mention those players were all raised in France, they are french, their ethnicity doesn't matter.
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It goes byond that though, Argentina unlike many northern nations is south america never saw an infux of africans during the slave trade and as such has quite a small community of african decent, as such they have a history of using diferences in skin colour and ethnic origins to bait and insult other SA countries particulary brazil.

The song is soley aimed at skin colour and ethnicity not just ancestry, England singing that Irish players were from yorksihre would have a completely different meaning tbf.

Different culture and tbh we cannot wholey judge them by our standards as we are no angels at times but the song is racist, however Fernandez was playing in Europe and with french players as team mates and so knew that this was unacceptable in europe but posted it anyway to wind up the french.
 
urban genie said:
It goes byond that though, Argentina unlike many northern nations is south america never saw an infux of africans during the slave trade and as such has quite a small community of african decent, as such they have a history of using diferences in skin colour and ethnic origins to bait and insult other SA countries particulary brazil.

The song is soley aimed at skin colour and ethnicity not just ancestry, England singing that Irish players were from yorksihre would have a completely different meaning tbf.

Different culture and tbh we cannot wholey judge them by our standards as we are no angels at times but the song is racist, however Fernandez was playing in Europe and with french players as team mates and so knew that this was unacceptable in europe but posted it anyway to wind up the french.
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Your post is complete ignorance. Argentina systematically tried to erase its African population through various methods.

Africans and people of African descent made up more than fifty percent of the population in these areas according to Jonathan C. Brown. According the George Reid Andrews in his book The Afro-Argentines of Buenos Aires, 1800-1900, Buenos Aires’s population itself was a third black at the time of the revolution.

However, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, huge numbers of Europeans poured into the country, rapidly and significantly altering the demographics of the nation. Immigration pushed the racial makeup of Argentina toward a lighter-skinned population. Simultaneously, as Andrews and others have convincingly demonstrated, part of the decline was an intentional “whitening” of the population during the late 19th century, which was pushed by positivist leaders who attempted to transform Argentina into a more European and “civilized” nation. In the process, they castigated their indigenous, Spanish, and African heritage in favor of the “progress” of Europe. This resulted in a significant white privilege among the elite and middle class. In popular culture, blacks were portrayed, according to Matthew Karush in his article “Blackness in Argentina: Jazz, Tango and Race Before Perón,” as the archetypical supporter of the demonized dictator Rosas and thus the enemies of progress. They were often the criminals and the idiots, playing second fiddle to strong white characters. These policies, both intentional and unintentional, took their toll on the African population. Sarmiento is even known to have said “En Buenos Aires, en veinte años más, será preciso ir al Brasil para verlos en toda la pureza de su raza” (In Buenos Aires in twenty years, it will be necessary to go to Brazil to see pure Africans).

Look at the youtube video:

How Argentina Erased Its Black People From History​

 
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Dax777 said:
To each their own. This sounds more like a dig at France to me. While i personally disagree with the sentiment, a lot of Africans I know sorta agree with it... They think France is robbing lots of African teams of talent that could be representing them.

Lots of Africans even joke that France is Africa's national team. Others take a much more negative and corrosive view by claiming France continues to colonize Africa by using Africa's human resources to France's advantage.

I think the whole anti-France narrative is stupid. French players should be able to play for France without anyone moaning about it regardless of what their parental heritage is.. Seeing as the corollary is worse. I mean, imagine a scenario where France only allows players of European descent to play for France. We'd all be here killing France for being the most racist Country ever. We cant have it both ways. That said, i get what the Argentineans are hinting at... What they are saying is that France is cheating ( or has an undue advantage ) by having a global pool of talent compared to other nations.


Anyway, this to me is more anti- French banter by Argentine players. Sure one can infer some nativists undertones from it. But Im not sure labelling the guy who shared the video a racist is correct. As that blurs all nuance.
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Your entitled to your opinion even if it's wrong
 
bhayes said:
Your post is complete ignorance. Argentina systematically tried to erase its African population through various methods.

Africans and people of African descent made up more than fifty percent of the population in these areas according to Jonathan C. Brown. According the George Reid Andrews in his book The Afro-Argentines of Buenos Aires, 1800-1900, Buenos Aires’s population itself was a third black at the time of the revolution.

However, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, huge numbers of Europeans poured into the country, rapidly and significantly altering the demographics of the nation. Immigration pushed the racial makeup of Argentina toward a lighter-skinned population. Simultaneously, as Andrews and others have convincingly demonstrated, part of the decline was an intentional “whitening” of the population during the late 19th century, which was pushed by positivist leaders who attempted to transform Argentina into a more European and “civilized” nation. In the process, they castigated their indigenous, Spanish, and African heritage in favor of the “progress” of Europe. This resulted in a significant white privilege among the elite and middle class. In popular culture, blacks were portrayed, according to Matthew Karush in his article “Blackness in Argentina: Jazz, Tango and Race Before Perón,” as the archetypical supporter of the demonized dictator Rosas and thus the enemies of progress. They were often the criminals and the idiots, playing second fiddle to strong white characters. These policies, both intentional and unintentional, took their toll on the African population. Sarmiento is even known to have said “En Buenos Aires, en veinte años más, será preciso ir al Brasil para verlos en toda la pureza de su raza” (In Buenos Aires in twenty years, it will be necessary to go to Brazil to see pure Africans).

Look at the youtube video:

How Argentina Erased Its Black People From History​

Click to expand...
I never once said they erased anything, so calm down and stop distorting my post to defend a player you like.

Also reply if you want I won't respond as it does nothing to advance the transfer talk
 
ALDN_Ko said:
It’s both. All countries mentioned have black populations. Again, they could’ve mentioned other ethnicities other than African ones but chose not to. They knew what they were doing
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It’s possible that they don’t know about Griezeman’s parents etc
 
bhayes said:
Your entitled to your opinion even if it's wrong
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He is mostly right regarding the song itself, it's a dig on the French for using their former colonies to allure players from Africa and revamp the NT, that's the main dig. Not that Enzo despises black people, in fact Enzo is a "brown/poor origin" fella that sadly must have deal in more than one ocassion with discrimination.

YET, there is an undeniable racist base when the concept implies that being African it's a synonim of being black and French people is just white. Sadly there are BTW way worse football chants than this one regarding xenophobia and racism, way more direct and over the top.

The thing it's that what it's actually wrong, and needs to be fixed, it's the bashing culture in Argie crowds since ever (guess is global, yet down here it's to the max), using everythng there is out there as far from political correct it can be to "attack" the rival's crowd, meaning using being: gay, black, brown, poor, women, etc etc as derogatory terms.

It's sthg that will be extremely hard to make it dissapear and many even think that being critical to that lame subculture, is being woke, made of crystal, etc...that in football everything goes to "hurt" the rival and what happens in the pitch, stays in the pitch. Dunno if at some point that will change.

I think that in part even exists, because on daily basis, living down here, does not have even remotely a great deal of discrimination towards black people and it's "brown", poor and xenophobia the more at hand issues (an ethnic group most argie players belong). Not dealing in the past, nor currently, with the extreme situations that were lived and still are lived in USA, or even France itself and Europe in general, since people down here are mostly mixed among diff ethnic backgrounds and religions, but still exists that derogatory, even if in jest, atmosphere.

This actually being extremely stupid, because by now, the huge majority of the population looks more brown than white as it was in the past. In fact like it happens in USA with the Mexican inmigration, the lesser Argie white population blames on those inmigrants, like happens in Europe too with Latin Americans (Panchitos, Sudacas) and worse African/Arabic/Muslim inmigration.

Anyway, to reduce everything to Enzo being a racist, it's silly, to understand that the chant has racist conotations and that not only Enzo, every pro player chanting must leave the stupid ultra thing chant and be more empathetic, more understanding of the implications of that subculture, that since years has been trying to be erase and for good reason in Europe, it's not only a human thing, it's a practical and logical thing to avoid.
 
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bhayes said:
Your post is complete ignorance. Argentina systematically tried to erase its African population through various methods.

Africans and people of African descent made up more than fifty percent of the population in these areas according to Jonathan C. Brown. According the George Reid Andrews in his book The Afro-Argentines of Buenos Aires, 1800-1900, Buenos Aires’s population itself was a third black at the time of the revolution.

However, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, huge numbers of Europeans poured into the country, rapidly and significantly altering the demographics of the nation. Immigration pushed the racial makeup of Argentina toward a lighter-skinned population. Simultaneously, as Andrews and others have convincingly demonstrated, part of the decline was an intentional “whitening” of the population during the late 19th century, which was pushed by positivist leaders who attempted to transform Argentina into a more European and “civilized” nation. In the process, they castigated their indigenous, Spanish, and African heritage in favor of the “progress” of Europe. This resulted in a significant white privilege among the elite and middle class. In popular culture, blacks were portrayed, according to Matthew Karush in his article “Blackness in Argentina: Jazz, Tango and Race Before Perón,” as the archetypical supporter of the demonized dictator Rosas and thus the enemies of progress. They were often the criminals and the idiots, playing second fiddle to strong white characters. These policies, both intentional and unintentional, took their toll on the African population. Sarmiento is even known to have said “En Buenos Aires, en veinte años más, será preciso ir al Brasil para verlos en toda la pureza de su raza” (In Buenos Aires in twenty years, it will be necessary to go to Brazil to see pure Africans).

Look at the youtube video:

How Argentina Erased Its Black People From History​

Click to expand...

More than intentionally wanting to erase black people, what happened it's that during wars, the cannon fodder were troops mostly chosen from indigenous, black and even Euro origin (mercenaries, pirates, ex or current convicts). Like in the USA, many black people were at times promised of better futures if they fought those wars, finding death in them.Still happens all over thr world, mostly with poor (and better the less educated fellas) to be drafted.

On the other side of the coin, early as 1813 started the process of abolition of slavery and never existed an Apartheid alike situation even insa lesser way. Sometimes I came across some silly vid questioning why there are now Black People in the NT well, because there are few to noen Argie black footballers and also it's not true taht we never had them, Baley, Delgado, too excelent black NT players.
You can bet that even if the AF was ran by the biggest biggote ever, would never reject any merely proper blak player, we always lacked that to be even better.
 
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bhayes said:
I will like this club a lot less if we bring in a known racist. Tbh i am not sure I could even support the club anymore. What a slap in the face to every African fan of city and to be honest, every immigrant fan of city as well. Shame on the club.
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Trautmann was at one time a racist. He was a brownshirt in Germany. His ideas changed through the course of his life.

We are owned by Sheikh Mansour, and our Chairman is Khaldoon Mubarak. Do you know who they are and what they believe in?

City were founded by a church. I regard Christian doctrines as ridiculous nonsense but I am still a City fan. Key people in the history of MCFC have held all manner of contradictory ideas.
 
Houseman said:
He is mostly right regarding the song itself, it's a dig on the French for using their former colonies to allure players from Africa and revamp the NT, that's the main dig. Not that Enzo despises black people, in fact Enzo is a "brown/poor origin" fella that sadly must have deal in more than one ocassion with discrimination.

YET, there is an undeniable racist base when the concept implies that being African it's a synonim of being black and French people is just white. There are BTW way worse football chants than this one regarding xenophobia and racism, way more direct and over the top.

The thing it's that what it's actually wrong, and needs to be fixed, it's the bashing culture in Argie crowds since ever, using everythng there is out there as far from political correct it can be to "attack" the rival's crowd, meaning using being: gay, black, brown, poor, women, etc etc as derogatory terms.
It's sthg that will be extremely hard to make it dissapear and many even see critics to that bashing, as being woke, made of crystal, that in football everything goes to "hurt" the rival and what happens in the pitch, stays in the pitch. Dunno if at some point that will change.

In part even exists, because on daily basis, living down here, does not have even remotely a great deal of discrimination towards black people and it's "brown", poor and xenophobia the more at hand issues (an ethnic group most argie players belong). Not to the extreme of some situations that were lived and still are lived in USA, France itself, Europe in general, since people down here mostly mixed among diff ethnic backgrounds and religions, but still exists that derogatory, even if in jest, atmosphere.

This actually being extremely stupid, because by now, the huge majority of the population looks more brown than white as it was in the past. In fact like it happens in USA with the Mexican inmigration, the lesser Argie white population blames on those inmigrants, like happens in Europe too with Latin Americans (Panchitos, Sudacas) and worse African/Arabic/Muslim inmigration.

Anyway, to reduce evrything to Enzo being a racist, it's silly, to understand that the chant has racist conotations and that not only Enzo, every pro player chanting must leave the stupid ultra thing chant and be more empathetic, more understanding of the implications of that subculture, that since years has been trying to be erase and for good reason in Europe, it's not only a human thing, it's a practical and logical thing to avoid.
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If that video of me & half the Kippax singing ‘feed the scousers let them know it’s Christmas time’ ever surfaces we will be Strangeways bound
 
Houseman said:
He is mostly right regarding the song itself, it's a dig on the French for using their former colonies to allure players from Africa and revamp the NT, that's the main dig. Not that Enzo despises black people, in fact Enzo is a "brown/poor origin" fella that sadly must have deal in more than one ocassion with discrimination.

YET, there is an undeniable racist base when the concept implies that being African it's a synonim of being black and French people is just white. There are BTW way worse football chants than this one regarding xenophobia and racism, way more direct and over the top.

The thing it's that what it's actually wrong, and needs to be fixed, it's the bashing culture in Argie crowds since ever, using everythng there is out there as far from political correct it can be to "attack" the rival's crowd, meaning using being: gay, black, brown, poor, women, etc etc as derogatory terms.
It's sthg that will be extremely hard to make it dissapear and many even see critics to that bashing, as being woke, made of crystal, that in football everything goes to "hurt" the rival and what happens in the pitch, stays in the pitch. Dunno if at some point that will change.

In part even exists, because on daily basis, living down here, does not have even remotely a great deal of discrimination towards black people and it's "brown", poor and xenophobia the more at hand issues (an ethnic group most argie players belong). Not to the extreme of some situations that were lived and still are lived in USA, France itself, Europe in general, since people down here mostly mixed among diff ethnic backgrounds and religions, but still exists that derogatory, even if in jest, atmosphere.

This actually being extremely stupid, because by now, the huge majority of the population looks more brown than white as it was in the past. In fact like it happens in USA with the Mexican inmigration, the lesser Argie white population blames on those inmigrants, like happens in Europe too with Latin Americans (Panchitos, Sudacas) and worse African/Arabic/Muslim inmigration.

Anyway, to reduce evrything to Enzo being a racist, it's silly, to understand that the chant has racist conotations and that not only Enzo, every pro player chanting must leave the stupid ultra thing chant and be more empathetic, more understanding of the implications of that subculture, that since years has been trying to be erase and for good reason in Europe, it's not only a human thing, it's a practical and logical thing to avoid.
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On worse football chants, I remember the Kippax hissing at Spurs to mimic the gas chambers.
 
Still those chants should be erase of the fan subculture and if it does not happen, it's extremely STUPID to chant those being a Pro Player, no matter how exited you might be after winning anything.
 
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