Henry Nowak murder

[bert38]

He recognises he's been hurt and can see a facial injury. Given the time of night and conditions it's not unreasonable for him to assume that he's been hurt as a result of a fall rather than being stabbed. Henry tells him he's been stabbed, but the officer has been told he's an assailant and has hurt himself trying to run away. I know it's objective, but I do find it understandable, yet totally tragic, that his own report was initially dismissed.

Indeed-I think we are all pretty much on the same page, aside from the rare pitchfork bearer-its an absolutely horrific murder and the circumstances of all it hard to grasp.

 

[Dax777]

I'm trying to put myself in his shoes-I think he sees an intoxicated male and his brain is then blind to the alternative and he treats Henry's pleas as just drunken rambling.

This error is unacceptable though. He knew tha kid was hurt. :(

 

[hello]

Wow, can't believe folks are still trying to defend the police officer(s), A fucking dog walker stumbling into the victim would have been more use. They would have called an ambulance straight away and at least tried to help/reassure the victim. yet actual paid first responders were told he's got blood in the mouth as they arrived on scene, A scene where everyone else was stood up walking and talking. That initial triage should have took 10 seconds tops, then basic first aid kicks in Airways, Breathing, Circulation at A, Airways block by own blood, he's telling he's been stabbed and can't breathe. Oh I know lets drag him along the floor force him upright and cuff him I remember that on my first aid refresher course.

And that balding ginger **** of a chief constable with a straight face gloating about them switching to first aid mode in only 3 minutes. What a fucking joke.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

He recognises he's been hurt and can see a facial injury. Given the time of night and conditions it's not unreasonable for him to assume that he's been hurt as a result of a fall rather than being stabbed. Henry tells him he's been stabbed, but the officer has been told he's an assailant and has hurt himself trying to run away. I know it's objective, but I do find it understandable, yet totally tragic, that his own report was initially dismissed.

It’s really not understandable at all to me.

You have someone in front of you who you yourself have immediately assessed as being injured. You put them face down, you drag them, and you do nothing until your fellow police officer tells you they are unresponsive.

If you think that is acceptable policing I’m not sure what to say really.

Everyone view things differently through their own lens I suppose.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Wow, can't believe folks are still trying to defend the police officer(s), A fucking dog walker stumbling into the victim would have been more use. They would have called an ambulance straight away and at least tried to help/reassure the victim.

A dog walker stumbling into the victim wouldn't have been lied to by others telling the dog walker that he fell whilst trying to run away after committing a crime.

The problem here is that they were hugely misled by several people who, at the time, would've appeared credible.

 

[hilts]

Just worth pointing out that the murderer in this case was already wearing a much smaller ceremonial kirpan round his neck, that met his religious obligations. The murder weapon was one of a number of larger weapons he owned which were more to do with him being a wrong 'un rather than any required religious adherence.

I'm not saying we can't/shouldn't have the debate but I think we need to be clear eyed that this wasn't a man who used a religious symbol as a weapon. It was a man who committed a murder with a lethal weapon that he had no religious need to own or carry, full stop.

Yeah i knew that and I agree but there isnt any need for such things in this modern world.

 

[hilts]

A dog walker stumbling into the victim wouldn't have been lied to by others telling the dog walker that he fell whilst trying to run away after committing a crime.

The problem here is that they were hugely misled by several people who, at the time, would've appeared credible.

Yeah just believing people is a great characteristic for a copper.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Yeah just believing people is a great characteristic for a copper.

They were provided a plausible description of events by persons whom - at the time - they had no reason to disbelieve. It's a rare and extreme, tragic case where they've been completely lied to upon taking an initial report.

If you call the Police tonight to tell them you've been beaten up and had your wallet stolen and at least 2 other people are backing up your story - rest assured you'd expect them to believe you. If an investigation took place and it turned out you and everyone else was lying, they'd find that out in due course. Sadly here, they didn't have "due course". They had 3 minutes.

 

[hilts]

They were provided a plausible description of events by persons whom - at the time - they had no reason to disbelieve. It's a rare and extreme, tragic case where they've been completely lied to upon taking an initial report.

If you call the Police tonight to tell them you've been beaten up and had your wallet stolen and at least 2 other people are backing up your story - rest assured you'd expect them to believe you. If an investigation took place and it turned out you and everyone else was lying, they'd find that out in due course. Sadly here, they didn't have "due course". They had 3 minutes.

What did they say happened when they rang the police?

 

[ayrshire_blue]

What did they say happened when they rang the police?

Watch the video and see what they said when Police arrived.

 

[LangleyBlue1970]

They were provided a plausible description of events by persons whom - at the time - they had no reason to disbelieve. It's a rare and extreme, tragic case where they've been completely lied to upon taking an initial report.

If you call the Police tonight to tell them you've been beaten up and had your wallet stolen and at least 2 other people are backing up your story - rest assured you'd expect them to believe you. If an investigation took place and it turned out you and everyone else was lying, they'd find that out in due course. Sadly here, they didn't have "due course". They had 3 minutes.

Yeah but I’m that hypothetical scenario nobody has been stabbed. If the coppers came round and the victim then says they’ve been stabbed, you’d expect they would give you a thorough check regardless of anything else. Not drag you a few yards and tell you you haven’t been stabbed.

 

[Dax777]

A dog walker stumbling into the victim wouldn't have been lied to by others telling the dog walker that he fell whilst trying to run away after committing a crime.

The problem here is that they were hugely misled by several people who, at the time, would've appeared credible.

Even if it were the case that his injury was in fact from falling after trying to flee, and it was true he was the assailant, this should not have changed how the police approached the situation. The assailant is injured and cant sit up. What is the injury? Broke a leg? A back? A neck?

The presumed " victims" weren't holding him down, they were holding him up. With blood in his mouth. Head injury perhaps? Should have been one of the first thoughts.

Its a major fuck up. no matter how you look at it.

Even if you assumed every claim by the killer and his family to be true.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

They were provided a plausible description of events by persons whom - at the time - they had no reason to disbelieve. It's a rare and extreme, tragic case where they've been completely lied to upon taking an initial report.

If you call the Police tonight to tell them you've been beaten up and had your wallet stolen and at least 2 other people are backing up your story - rest assured you'd expect them to believe you. If an investigation took place and it turned out you and everyone else was lying, they'd find that out in due course. Sadly here, they didn't have "due course". They had 3 minutes.

Sadly, the lad was on borrowed time when the police turned up. Not even an on-scene trauma surgeon would have been able to save him from what I've read.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Yeah but I’m that hypothetical scenario nobody has been stabbed. If the coppers came round and the victim then says they’ve been stabbed, you’d expect they would give you a thorough check regardless of anything else. Not drag you a few yards and tell you you haven’t been stabbed.

Even if it were the case that his injury was in fact from falling after trying to flee, and it was true he was the assailant, this should not have changed how the police approached the situation. The assailant is injured and cant sit up. What is the injury? Broke a leg? A back? A neck?

The presumed " victims" weren't holding him down, they were holding him up. With blood in his mouth. Head injury perhaps? Should have been one of the first thoughts.

Its a major fuck up. no matter how you look at it.

Even if you assumed every claim by the killer and his family to be true.

Not really disagreeing with either of you here. I've said repeatedly on here that sticking cuffs and reading him his rights was needless (to say the least) at the time they did so and that more time should've been taken to assess the situation. So yeah, I'm kind of with you both here.

My argument was in response to the dog walker comment. The sad irony is that if a dog walker had found him and told the Police, the Police would've been starting from a place of neutrality and it would've been out of concern for a male lying injured. The Police were starting here on the back foot from a place of "he's a criminal, he's just fell trying to run away". It led to them not assessing the situation properly.

 

[bert38]

 

[hampshireblue]

Yeah i knew that and I agree but there isnt any need for such things in this modern world.

I agree but then I suppose the same applies to:

Full Scottish Highland dress incorporates two traditional bladed weapons: the Sgian Dubh (the small knife worn in the sock) and the Dirk (a much larger, ceremonial dagger). Both act as crucial symbolic elements of national pride, linking wearers directly to the historical military and civilian heritage of the wearer.

 

[bert38]

Not really disagreeing with either of you here. I've said repeatedly on here that sticking cuffs and reading him his rights was needless (to say the least) at the time they did so and that more time should've been taken to assess the situation. So yeah, I'm kind of with you both here.

My argument was in response to the dog walker comment. The sad irony is that if a dog walker had found him and told the Police, the Police would've been starting from a place of neutrality and it would've been out of concern for a male lying injured. The Police were starting here on the back foot from a place of "he's a criminal, he's just fell trying to run away". It led to them not assessing the situation properly.

And the essay I have just posted talks about the psychology of anchoring.

People need to remind themselves that the police were tricked by a compelling story.

 

[tonea2003]

He recognises he's been hurt and can see a facial injury. Given the time of night and conditions it's not unreasonable for him to assume that he's been hurt as a result of a fall rather than being stabbed. Henry tells him he's been stabbed, but the officer has been told he's an assailant and has hurt himself trying to run away. I know it's objective, but I do find it understandable, yet totally tragic, that his own report was initially dismissed.

what would make henry less credible in this situation, because someone said something first,
terrible policing by those particular officers

 

[hilts]

I agree but then I suppose the same applies to:

Full Scottish Highland dress incorporates two traditional bladed weapons: the Sgian Dubh (the small knife worn in the sock) and the Dirk (a much larger, ceremonial dagger). Both act as crucial symbolic elements of national pride, linking wearers directly to the historical military and civilian heritage of the wearer.

Yeah tis all bollocks really if you think about it. Unless its necessary to your work and locked away when not in use there isn't a need to be carrying weapons really.

 

[Ohrodneyrodney]

Wow, can't believe folks are still trying to defend the police officer(s), A fucking dog walker stumbling into the victim would have been more use. They would have called an ambulance straight away and at least tried to help/reassure the victim. yet actual paid first responders were told he's got blood in the mouth as they arrived on scene, A scene where everyone else was stood up walking and talking. That initial triage should have took 10 seconds tops, then basic first aid kicks in Airways, Breathing, Circulation at A, Airways block by own blood, he's telling he's been stabbed and can't breathe. Oh I know lets drag him along the floor force him upright and cuff him I remember that on my first aid refresher course.

And that balding ginger **** of a chief constable with a straight face gloating about them switching to first aid mode in only 3 minutes. What a fucking joke.

Absolutely inexcusable mate. The excuses like “other people lied to them” and other such bollocks just don’t wash. As a police officer, or even a dog walker, someone says to you they’ve been stabbed and can’t breathe, the very least you do is try to help or comfort them. I’ve no idea how anyone can lack basic humanity so much that you just say “nah don’t think you have mate” and handcuff him instead.
There are simply no excuses and people should stop trying to make them.