Henry Nowak murder

[ayrshire_blue]

Yeah but I’m that hypothetical scenario nobody has been stabbed. If the coppers came round and the victim then says they’ve been stabbed, you’d expect they would give you a thorough check regardless of anything else. Not drag you a few yards and tell you you haven’t been stabbed.

Even if it were the case that his injury was in fact from falling after trying to flee, and it was true he was the assailant, this should not have changed how the police approached the situation. The assailant is injured and cant sit up. What is the injury? Broke a leg? A back? A neck?

The presumed " victims" weren't holding him down, they were holding him up. With blood in his mouth. Head injury perhaps? Should have been one of the first thoughts.

Its a major fuck up. no matter how you look at it.

Even if you assumed every claim by the killer and his family to be true.

Not really disagreeing with either of you here. I've said repeatedly on here that sticking cuffs and reading him his rights was needless (to say the least) at the time they did so and that more time should've been taken to assess the situation. So yeah, I'm kind of with you both here.

My argument was in response to the dog walker comment. The sad irony is that if a dog walker had found him and told the Police, the Police would've been starting from a place of neutrality and it would've been out of concern for a male lying injured. The Police were starting here on the back foot from a place of "he's a criminal, he's just fell trying to run away". It led to them not assessing the situation properly.

 

[bert38]

 

[hampshireblue]

Yeah i knew that and I agree but there isnt any need for such things in this modern world.

I agree but then I suppose the same applies to:

Full Scottish Highland dress incorporates two traditional bladed weapons: the Sgian Dubh (the small knife worn in the sock) and the Dirk (a much larger, ceremonial dagger). Both act as crucial symbolic elements of national pride, linking wearers directly to the historical military and civilian heritage of the wearer.

 

[bert38]

Not really disagreeing with either of you here. I've said repeatedly on here that sticking cuffs and reading him his rights was needless (to say the least) at the time they did so and that more time should've been taken to assess the situation. So yeah, I'm kind of with you both here.

My argument was in response to the dog walker comment. The sad irony is that if a dog walker had found him and told the Police, the Police would've been starting from a place of neutrality and it would've been out of concern for a male lying injured. The Police were starting here on the back foot from a place of "he's a criminal, he's just fell trying to run away". It led to them not assessing the situation properly.

And the essay I have just posted talks about the psychology of anchoring.

People need to remind themselves that the police were tricked by a compelling story.

 

[tonea2003]

He recognises he's been hurt and can see a facial injury. Given the time of night and conditions it's not unreasonable for him to assume that he's been hurt as a result of a fall rather than being stabbed. Henry tells him he's been stabbed, but the officer has been told he's an assailant and has hurt himself trying to run away. I know it's objective, but I do find it understandable, yet totally tragic, that his own report was initially dismissed.

what would make henry less credible in this situation, because someone said something first,
terrible policing by those particular officers

 

[hilts]

I agree but then I suppose the same applies to:

Full Scottish Highland dress incorporates two traditional bladed weapons: the Sgian Dubh (the small knife worn in the sock) and the Dirk (a much larger, ceremonial dagger). Both act as crucial symbolic elements of national pride, linking wearers directly to the historical military and civilian heritage of the wearer.

Yeah tis all bollocks really if you think about it. Unless its necessary to your work and locked away when not in use there isn't a need to be carrying weapons really.

 

[hello]

steady on the ginger...that's a hate crime..or it should be

hate Crime are you joking. Its just a descriptive term to distinguish him from the other deputy prick that spouted the same nonsense in excusing the inexcusable, both of them are undoubtedly cunts, one is balding and ginger, the other might use just for men who knows.

 

[bert38]

hate Crime are you joking. Its just a descriptive term to distinguish him from the other deputy prick that spouted the same nonsense in excusing the inexcusable, both of them are undoubtedly cunts, one is balding and ginger, the other might use just for men who knows.

I was joking!

As a strawberry blonde myself :)

 

[Ohrodneyrodney]

Wow, can't believe folks are still trying to defend the police officer(s), A fucking dog walker stumbling into the victim would have been more use. They would have called an ambulance straight away and at least tried to help/reassure the victim. yet actual paid first responders were told he's got blood in the mouth as they arrived on scene, A scene where everyone else was stood up walking and talking. That initial triage should have took 10 seconds tops, then basic first aid kicks in Airways, Breathing, Circulation at A, Airways block by own blood, he's telling he's been stabbed and can't breathe. Oh I know lets drag him along the floor force him upright and cuff him I remember that on my first aid refresher course.

And that balding ginger **** of a chief constable with a straight face gloating about them switching to first aid mode in only 3 minutes. What a fucking joke.

Absolutely inexcusable mate. The excuses like “other people lied to them” and other such bollocks just don’t wash. As a police officer, or even a dog walker, someone says to you they’ve been stabbed and can’t breathe, the very least you do is try to help or comfort them. I’ve no idea how anyone can lack basic humanity so much that you just say “nah don’t think you have mate” and handcuff him instead.
There are simply no excuses and people should stop trying to make them.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Sadly, the lad was on borrowed time when the police turned up. Not even an on-scene trauma surgeon would have been able to save him from what I've read.

And yet they cuffed him. A helpless individual who was of no threat to anyone, as he lay on the ground.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

He recognises he's been hurt and can see a facial injury. Given the time of night and conditions it's not unreasonable for him to assume that he's been hurt as a result of a fall rather than being stabbed. Henry tells him he's been stabbed, but the officer has been told he's an assailant and has hurt himself trying to run away. I know it's objective, but I do find it understandable, yet totally tragic, that his own report was initially dismissed.

So the officers in attendance have been told he's hurt himself by running away but they still cuffed him, instead of assessing any physical damage ? The first thing they saw was a casualty, on the deck. They monumentally fucked up.
The poor lads last moments should've been of someone attempting to help him, not fucking disable him, in cuffs.
He was the only casualty. The only one showing any signs of injury.
All this 1-3 minutes, it was dark, they were lied to, bollocks, is nothing more than a rejection of the facts .

 

[Snape]

And yet they cuffed him. A helpless individual who was of no threat to anyone, as he lay on the ground.

Exactly this - where were the lawful grounds for cuffing?
The decision must be proportionate and based on an honest assessment that the person poses a risk of -
Violence or assault, to officers, the public, or themselves
Escape, a genuine flight risk following arrest
Self-harm , where there's a credible immediate risk

 

[BlueMoonday]

It's worrying to think what these "Police Officers" are being instructed and taught during training. Common sense policing has gone out of the window and it's dangerous.

 

[UnderControl]

You'd think of all the professions.. If a policeman got radioed whatever 'attend a scene on Belmont Rd, we've had a call saying someone has been racially abused'
You'd go to yourself 'well, I'll keep a fucking open mind when I get there'

 

[BlueMoonday]

You'd think of all the professions.. If a policeman got radioed whatever 'attend a scene on Belmont Rd, we've had a call saying someone has been racially abused'
You'd go to yourself 'well, I'll keep a fucking open mind when I get there'

Unfortunately they haven't got the brains to keep an open mind.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

And yet they cuffed him. A helpless individual who was of no threat to anyone, as he lay on the ground.

Becuse he'd wrongly been identified as the agressor. The actions of any emegency services personnel upon ariving at the scene of an icident it to ensure their own safety and the safety of others.

Nowak was reported to be drunk by Digwa which would have had bearing on how the officers approached the situation. From personal experience, drunk people can go from placcid and unresponsive to lashing out and causing havoc in next to no time. Cuffing him whilst trying to ascertain the facts would have been a no-brainer.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Can I just check where you have got the information that the victim was reported as being drunk?

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Becuse he'd wrongly been identified as the agressor. The actions of any emegency services personnel upon ariving at the scene of an icident it to ensure their own safety and the safety of others.

Nowak was reported to be drunk by Digwa which would have had bearing on how the officers approached the situation. From personal experience, drunk people can go from placcid and unresponsive to lashing out and causing havoc in next to no time. Cuffing him whilst trying to ascertain the facts would have been a no-brainer.

It's definitely not a no brainer. He was the only casualty at the scene and should've been treated and assessed as such. There's no getting away from that.

 

[bert38]

Becuse he'd wrongly been identified as the agressor. The actions of any emegency services personnel upon ariving at the scene of an icident it to ensure their own safety and the safety of others.

Nowak was reported to be drunk by Digwa which would have had bearing on how the officers approached the situation. From personal experience, drunk people can go from placcid and unresponsive to lashing out and causing havoc in next to no time. Cuffing him whilst trying to ascertain the facts would have been a no-brainer.

It’s as the paper on anchoring says-people here are anchored in full knowledge of Henry’s condition-hence the ‘all this 1-3 minutes bollox’

If it was all so easy at the time why didn’t the officer do it, find the wound and treat it…

Just interesting that the whole ‘open mind until I get there’ wouldve then meant questioning everyone at length wasting much more time….and then the same people would say ‘why didn’t you waste time asking the same questions when you already knew?’

In any other walk of life pivoting from one mindset to another in such a short space of time would be impressive.

It’s also impossible to be a ‘trained professional’ and a ‘idiot’ at the same time.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

It's definitely not a no brainer. He was the only casualty at the scene and should've been treated and assessed as such. There's no getting away from that.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the circumstances are investigated about both the brothers being sacked from roles at their Temple and reported to police by the temple for theft of weapons.