Refugee crisis

http://t.co/b66xZkykcG
Four suspected smugglers from Syria were detained in connection with the tragedy.
A Canadian relative of the family was devastated.
“They didn’t deserve to die, they didn’t. They were going for a better life. That shouldn’t have happened,” Teema Kurdi, Abdullah’s sister, told reporters in Vancouver on Thursday. “I’m blaming the whole world for this.”
Meanwhile, Abdullah Kurdi said he turned down an offer of Canadian citizenship.
Abdullah Kurdi said he turned down an offer of Canadian citizenship
Er WHY?bit cold or not economically tempting,methinks the relative should be blaming someone closer to home.
 
grunge said:
I think there are multiple answers to this. the main one being that young men are the ones that get kidnapped and forced into battles against there will. so family's will send there young men away first to get them out of the danger zone quicker.. the other being they are young and fit so have travelled faster than the families so we are seeing mostly young men at Calais so people automatically think its only young men running.


Plus I would think that families are more likely to resist the move of uprooting and running away until there is no other option, dont forget these people probably didn't believe war would effect them, just like we dont think that this could happen to us!.

seems pretty fitting on that last point to link to this.
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Sorry, that is nonsense.
Women are kidnapped, raped and murdered in warzones, the first to be sent away would be women and children, the last thing men would do is piss off and leave them to it.
So the fit ones are in Calais, and we are about to see their equivalent number of women and children very soon, as soon as they catch up? We wait with bated breath.
The excuses just keep on coming.
 
CityStu said:
They are the ones that should be fighting against ISIS.

What do those saying "welcome them all (or large numbers of them)" think will happen to Syria? Do they imagine that ISIS will simply go away? Or do they believe that the West should send in troops? The former is naive and the second hasn't gone too well when done recently.

The people that need to stand up and fight for Syria are those young, fit men currently hanging out in Hungary trying to get to Germany. By all means, assist them with training, troops and weapons but the Syrian people need to be the driving force for change.

Currently they are running from their problems.
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Can you just explain who they ought to fight for? Their own government that is killing Syrians? Or ISIS who are killing Syrians? Or one of the other rebel groups, that would no doubt be killing Syrians if they came to power? There's not a clear good vs evil scenario here where the people of Syria can unite and rid themselves of ISIS or Assad. It's a war being fought by numerous factions and if I were caught in the middle of it my main concern would be to get my family out. Also, who should the Syrian Kurds fight against?
 
geoff clipp said:
Can you just explain who they ought to fight for? Their own government that is killing Syrians? Or ISIS who are killing Syrians? Or one of the other rebel groups, that would no doubt be killing Syrians if they came to power? There's not a clear good vs evil scenario here where the people of Syria can unite and rid themselves of ISIS or Assad. It's a war being fought by numerous factions and if I were caught in the middle of it my main concern would be to GET MY FAMILY OUT. Also, who should the Syrian Kurds fight against?
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You are right, the main concern would be to get your family out, which is obviously not much of a concern to the majority we're seeing in Europe, they left them behind.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Sorry, that is nonsense.
Women are kidnapped, raped and murdered in warzones, the first to be sent away would be women and children, the last thing men would do is piss off and leave them to it.
So the fit ones are in Calais, and we are about to see their equivalent number of women and children very soon, as soon as they catch up? We wait with bated breath.
The excuses just keep on coming.
Click to expand...

Its not nonsense at all, Google it, That's all I did. there is a vast quantity of info out there about it, that was one of the reasons given.

when you think of it this way. statistically, in Casalis there are a few thousand people camping out. that's about 0.001% of the refugees from Syria alone, not including all the others from other war torn areas that are heading into Europe from Africa. Its not hard to image that there are some out there that would abandon families, that would take families advice and run, or just dont have families anymore because they have been killed!. 0.001%.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
You are right, the main concern would be to get your family out, which is obviously not much of a concern to the majority we're seeing in Europe, they left them behind.
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You have no idea whether they've left them behind or not so stop trolling. We're taking a hard line on this thread against anyone we feel is just trying to wind other people up so be warned.

It's more likely they've paid people smugglers to get themselves out and can only afford to send one person. Obviously you'd send the person best able to cope.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
You are right, the main concern would be to get your family out, which is obviously not much of a concern to the majority we're seeing in Europe, they left them behind.
Click to expand...

Can you provides some stats to back up the claims? or are you just going by Daily mail pics?
 
geoff clipp said:
Can you just explain who they ought to fight for? Their own government that is killing Syrians? Or ISIS who are killing Syrians? Or one of the other rebel groups, that would no doubt be killing Syrians if they came to power? There's not a clear good vs evil scenario here where the people of Syria can unite and rid themselves of ISIS or Assad. It's a war being fought by numerous factions and if I were caught in the middle of it my main concern would be to get my family out. Also, who should the Syrian Kurds fight against?
Click to expand...

So what do you imagine the end game will be? All of the peaceful Syrian's housed in neighbouring and European countries and Syria left a wasteland inhabited by terrorists? I really can't see an alternative to that if we are intent on offering every decent Syrian asylum. And if you aren't going to offer them all asylum, how do you pick who gets lucky?
 
grunge said:
Its not nonsense at all, Google it, That's all I did. there is a vast quantity of info out there about it, that was one of the reasons given.

when you think of it this way. statistically, in Casalis there are a few thousand people camping out. that's about 0.001% of the refugees from Syria alone, not including all the others from other war torn areas that are heading into Europe from Africa. Its not hard to image that there are some out there that would abandon families, that would take families advice and run, or just dont have families anymore because they have been killed!. 0.001%.
Click to expand...
Every scene of would be immigrants shows men in the overwhelming majority, be it Calais, Greece, Italy, Hungary, wherever.
Taking family advice and run, do you actually believe that?
It goes against every human instinct when danger is threatening you and your family.
They have left for economic reasons, not all but the vast majority.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
You have no idea whether they've left them behind or not so stop trolling. We're taking a hard line on this thread against anyone we feel is just trying to wind other people up so be warned.

It's more likely they've paid people smugglers to get themselves out and can only afford to send one person. Obviously you'd send the person best able to cope.
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Trolling? Sorry, merely observing and commenting, I'm of the opinion that most folk would ensure their families were safe and arrange for them to leave for safety reasons, but maybe not.
Anyway, off to Wales for weekend, weather a bit iffy but hey ho, fish and chips for tea.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Every scene of would be immigrants shows men in the overwhelming majority, be it Calais, Greece, Italy, Hungary, wherever.
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you seem to be seeing what you want to see, or more likley what the media want you to see.

Ancient Citizen said:
Taking family advice and run, do you actually believe that?
It goes against every human instinct when danger is threatening you and your family.
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so you don't think that even a small % would take Mum and Dads advice and run? , the ones that have Mum's and Dads left!. and if you had say a 16 year old boy who could get forced into battle by either side, you wouldn't tell them to leave?


Ancient Citizen said:
They have left for economic reasons, not all but the vast majority.
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I think you have that the wrong way around, a small % may try to take advantage.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
You have no idea whether they've left them behind or not so stop trolling. We're taking a hard line on this thread against anyone we feel is just trying to wind other people up so be warned.

It's more likely they've paid people smugglers to get themselves out and can only afford to send one person. Obviously you'd send the person best able to cope.
Click to expand...
Sorry but this makes no sense at all. If the need is safety then the women and children would go first.
There is a great deal of bullshit floating around this issue.
Why not ask the experts what they think? Oh that's right the UNHCR think they should stay put the first country of safety.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
Why not ask the experts what they think? Oh that's right the UNHCR think they should stay put the first country of safety.
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Do you think every man woman and child running for there lives would know what the UNHCR is, or says? or do you think they will run as far away from the danger as possible.
 
One assumption im making here is that there must be a lot of word of mouth going around turkey's refugees that ISIS is heading there way so they are moving further west. the influx over recent weeks/months does suggest something is happening or rumoured to be happening.
 
grunge said:
One assumption im making here is that there must be a lot of word of mouth going around turkey's refugees that ISIS is heading there way so they are moving further west. the influx over recent weeks/months does suggest something is happening or rumoured to be happening.
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The word of mouth is that they are all welcome in germany. They are running to not from.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
do you? do you disagree with them? have you asked the government to stop giving them your money?
Click to expand...

Personally I think if they are localised in one place then aid can be distributed better so UNHCR are right in that sense, if it becomes a problem the other countries can step in to ease the load which is where we are at now.

Do I think refugees know or care what UNHCR say?, who knows, when your destitute living on the streets of a strange country, not knowing where your next meal or drink of water is coming from I would guess getting info is pretty tough going!. and if that info is "Stay put" it would be pretty hard to follow.
 
grunge said:
Personally I think if they are localised in one place then aid can be distributed better so UNHCR are right in that sense, if it becomes a problem the other countries can step in to ease the load which is where we are at now.
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This for me is the solution short term to the problems they face and the problems so many numbers of refuges can cause on infrastructure. The main concern for them is immediate, safe shelter food warmth and compassion after we have achieved that we should then be talking about how to make their former homes safe to go back to. That would probably involve killing a lot of people in the process but I see no other alternative.
Let's help these people out first and foremost.
 
grunge said:
I think there are multiple answers to this. the main one being that young men are the ones that get kidnapped and forced into battles against there will. so family's will send there young men away first to get them out of the danger zone quicker.. the other being they are young and fit so have travelled faster than the families so we are seeing mostly young men at Calais so people automatically think its only young men running.


Plus I would think that families are more likely to resist the move of uprooting and running away until there is no other option, dont forget these people probably didn't believe war would effect them, just like we dont think that this could happen to us!.

seems pretty fitting on that last point to link to this.
Click to expand...

Could easily be my daughter. An upsetting tape.
 
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