Head above the parapet time here - I'm going to side with Shallyman. IIRC, the United/Liverpool rivalry started to spice up a bit in the late seventies, when Liverpool started to win the league more regularly (they won it three times in the 12 years in the top flight under Shankly, then 8 times in 11 seasons from 1975/6 onwards). It became quite nasty from both sides pretty quickly, as well. The Manc derby was different in that it was the game that you'd get merciless stick for at school if you lost, and certainly in the late seventies, it was a huge event on both sides. But then, the match could definitely go either way, City had more Wembley appearances and the like through the seventies, and by the time we were averaging home gates of over 40K between 76 and 78, that probably meant that the Manchester region had fairly equal numbers of match-going fans for both clubs. (United's gates were bigger than ours, but even then, they used to draw a lot of out-of-towners).
What really turned things round was that City were so poor for so long. After our victory in the derby at Maine Road in February 1981, we won one more competitive fixture against United in the next 21 years and 9 months. After we went down in 1983, we played outside the top flight for nine of the next 20 seasons, so for nearly 50% of the time, there wasn't even a proper Manchester derby, just the odd friendly or testimonial. In the light of that, it's hardly surprising that the occasion lost its edge and United fans started to regard Liverpool as the bigger game - and it happened very quickly after we failed to offer any meaningful derby challenge.
If, over the coming years, we have City and United competing with each other in the title race and having more major Cup games against one another while Liverpool predominantly finish in the Europa League places, things will probably start to change. However, it will take some time, I'd have thought. We certainly always got to them a bit even when we were shit and they were winning everything in sight. Any protestations that they saw us irrelevant to them were given the lie by things like that banner, while you could often hear lots of signing about us when they played in one of their rare (arf!) televised games. But I think we're deluding ourselves a little if we suggest that the derby has, in the last couple of decades or a bit more, generally been the game even local United fans would regard as their biggest.
Can't say it matters to me anyway. We're not the City of old any more and they know they've got a hell of a fight if they want to be the more successful club in Manchester these days. That's what counts for me now.
I'd say this was a very accurate précis.Head above the parapet time here - I'm going to side with Shallyman. IIRC, the United/Liverpool rivalry started to spice up a bit in the late seventies, when Liverpool started to win the league more regularly (they won it three times in the 12 years in the top flight under Shankly, then 8 times in 11 seasons from 1975/6 onwards). It became quite nasty from both sides pretty quickly, as well. The Manc derby was different in that it was the game that you'd get merciless stick for at school if you lost, and certainly in the late seventies, it was a huge event on both sides. But then, the match could definitely go either way, City had more Wembley appearances and the like through the seventies, and by the time we were averaging home gates of over 40K between 76 and 78, that probably meant that the Manchester region had fairly equal numbers of match-going fans for both clubs. (United's gates were bigger than ours, but even then, they used to draw a lot of out-of-towners).
What really turned things round was that City were so poor for so long. After our victory in the derby at Maine Road in February 1981, we won one more competitive fixture against United in the next 21 years and 9 months. After we went down in 1983, we played outside the top flight for nine of the next 20 seasons, so for nearly 50% of the time, there wasn't even a proper Manchester derby, just the odd friendly or testimonial. In the light of that, it's hardly surprising that the occasion lost its edge and United fans started to regard Liverpool as the bigger game - and it happened very quickly after we failed to offer any meaningful derby challenge.
If, over the coming years, we have City and United competing with each other in the title race and having more major Cup games against one another while Liverpool predominantly finish in the Europa League places, things will probably start to change. However, it will take some time, I'd have thought. We certainly always got to them a bit even when we were shit and they were winning everything in sight. Any protestations that they saw us irrelevant to them were given the lie by things like that banner, while you could often hear lots of signing about us when they played in one of their rare (arf!) televised games. But I think we're deluding ourselves a little if we suggest that the derby has, in the last couple of decades or a bit more, generally been the game even local United fans would regard as their biggest.
Can't say it matters to me anyway. We're not the City of old any more and they know they've got a hell of a fight if they want to be the more successful club in Manchester these days. That's what counts for me now.
The 45 passes + goal vs Southampton.
I haven't seen or heard yet a mention of the fact that not one single tackle, let alone any close attention, was made by a Southampton player in the build up to that goal.
Some quotes:
"they were mesmerised"
"passed to death"
"hypnotic" also got a mention.
If this gets into the goal of the season contenders, then people need their eyes tested, including the ex-pro pundits.
Again Utd were lucky, surely it can't carry on, unlike the agenda bandwagon.
AgreedPlease. This very informative debate is doing my head in....We are now the biggest scalp. They don't like it cuz we're NOT going away anytime soon...So can we please get this thread back on track.....
SCUM!
Head above the parapet time here - I'm going to side with Shallyman. IIRC, the United/Liverpool rivalry started to spice up a bit in the late seventies, when Liverpool started to win the league more regularly (they won it three times in the 12 years in the top flight under Shankly, then 8 times in 11 seasons from 1975/6 onwards). It became quite nasty from both sides pretty quickly, as well. The Manc derby was different in that it was the game that you'd get merciless stick for at school if you lost, and certainly in the late seventies, it was a huge event on both sides. But then, the match could definitely go either way, City had more Wembley appearances and the like through the seventies, and by the time we were averaging home gates of over 40K between 76 and 78, that probably meant that the Manchester region had fairly equal numbers of match-going fans for both clubs. (United's gates were bigger than ours, but even then, they used to draw a lot of out-of-towners).
What really turned things round was that City were so poor for so long. After our victory in the derby at Maine Road in February 1981, we won one more competitive fixture against United in the next 21 years and 9 months. After we went down in 1983, we played outside the top flight for nine of the next 20 seasons, so for nearly 50% of the time, there wasn't even a proper Manchester derby, just the odd friendly or testimonial. In the light of that, it's hardly surprising that the occasion lost its edge and United fans started to regard Liverpool as the bigger game - and it happened very quickly after we failed to offer any meaningful derby challenge.
If, over the coming years, we have City and United competing with each other in the title race and having more major Cup games against one another while Liverpool predominantly finish in the Europa League places, things will probably start to change. However, it will take some time, I'd have thought. We certainly always got to them a bit even when we were shit and they were winning everything in sight. Any protestations that they saw us irrelevant to them were given the lie by things like that banner, while you could often hear lots of signing about us when they played in one of their rare (arf!) televised games. But I think we're deluding ourselves a little if we suggest that the derby has, in the last couple of decades or a bit more, generally been the game even local United fans would regard as their biggest.
Can't say it matters to me anyway. We're not the City of old any more and they know they've got a hell of a fight if they want to be the more successful club in Manchester these days. That's what counts for me now.
VanGaalEra if you're reading this thread, which I'm sure you are, then can I just point something out to you.
WE ARE NOT SHITTING IT THAT YOU'RE 2 PTS BEHIND US as your post on ragcafe pointed out.
Thanks petal.
Some people need to get a life.4000 posts on a football forum in 14 months.
Some people need to get a life.
He sounds a bit of a needy **** if you ask me. I pm'd him on ragcafe (I know I know but I joined in 2011 after we won the fa cup to gloat like fuck but it didn't happen. ) anyway I pm'd him and asked what his bluemoon name was and signed off with cheers bertie and a kiss .....the weird **** got all precious and got me banned.....absolutely devastated I was. Ha ha4000 posts on a football forum in 14 months, has van gaal era ever satisfied a woman? And does his post code have M in it? Two big questions of the day.
He sounds a bit of a needy **** if you ask me. I pm'd him on ragcafe (I know I know but I joined in 2011 after we won the fa cup to gloat like fuck but it didn't happen. ) anyway I pm'd him and asked what his bluemoon name was and signed off with cheers bertie and a kiss .....the weird **** got all precious and got me banned.....absolutely devastated I was. Ha ha
I guess he's your typical gobshite utd fan. Can't shut them up if they win and dissappear when they lose. I kind of think he posts on here already but acts as a city fan. Apparently him and his plastic mates try and get the words rags and bitter in their posts on here.What could 4000 posts be about on united considering how abject shite they've been since 2014? If he spends all his time being a voyeur on here why don't he sign up and we will talk to him. There's nothing wrong with dialogue is there?
To be fair, what you're agreeing with there is that the rivalry only started in the late 70's when Liverpool started winning things... in other words United fans were jealous of them and created the 'rivalry', so you're actually saying Shallyman is wrong! – as Gary has commented, things were probably worse at Leeds v United games back then and I know Rags who still have a deep down hatred of Leeds down to this, but just laugh at Scousers these days. The other thing worth noting is that in a lot of cases the Liverpool/United rivalry was used by Rags as wind-up to us because we were so shit... kind of a "you're not even good enough to be our rivals" thing.
Head above the parapet time here - I'm going to side with Shallyman. IIRC, the United/Liverpool rivalry started to spice up a bit in the late seventies, when Liverpool started to win the league more regularly (they won it three times in the 12 years in the top flight under Shankly, then 8 times in 11 seasons from 1975/6 onwards). It became quite nasty from both sides pretty quickly, as well. The Manc derby was different in that it was the game that you'd get merciless stick for at school if you lost, and certainly in the late seventies, it was a huge event on both sides. But then, the match could definitely go either way, City had more Wembley appearances and the like through the seventies, and by the time we were averaging home gates of over 40K between 76 and 78, that probably meant that the Manchester region had fairly equal numbers of match-going fans for both clubs. (United's gates were bigger than ours, but even then, they used to draw a lot of out-of-towners).
What really turned things round was that City were so poor for so long. After our victory in the derby at Maine Road in February 1981, we won one more competitive fixture against United in the next 21 years and 9 months. After we went down in 1983, we played outside the top flight for nine of the next 20 seasons, so for nearly 50% of the time, there wasn't even a proper Manchester derby, just the odd friendly or testimonial. In the light of that, it's hardly surprising that the occasion lost its edge and United fans started to regard Liverpool as the bigger game - and it happened very quickly after we failed to offer any meaningful derby challenge.
If, over the coming years, we have City and United competing with each other in the title race and having more major Cup games against one another while Liverpool predominantly finish in the Europa League places, things will probably start to change. However, it will take some time, I'd have thought. We certainly always got to them a bit even when we were shit and they were winning everything in sight. Any protestations that they saw us irrelevant to them were given the lie by things like that banner, while you could often hear lots of signing about us when they played in one of their rare (arf!) televised games. But I think we're deluding ourselves a little if we suggest that the derby has, in the last couple of decades or a bit more, generally been the game even local United fans would regard as their biggest.
Can't say it matters to me anyway. We're not the City of old any more and they know they've got a hell of a fight if they want to be the more successful club in Manchester these days. That's what counts for me now.
I guess he's your typical gobshite utd fan. Can't shut them up if they win and dissappear when they lose. I kind of think he posts on here already but acts as a city fan. Apparently him and his plastic mates try and get the words rags and bitter in their posts on here.
There are different types of rivalries.
You could argue that Chelsea are our biggest rivals and our games against them are our most important. They are our biggest on pitch rivals.
But on the terraces and in the pubs and work place, utd are , and will always be our biggest rivals.
I've moved away from Manchester a few years ago now, not too far, but in my workplace, and local pubs there are a lot of Liverpool fans, so to me, that game is now extremely important to me on a personal level.
Here's another poem..I doff my cap to you, Sir. Not only an impressive memory for details, but articulated in such a way that I was nodding furiously. You're a better man that most.
There's a short poem that journalist's and writers often use. It goes...
Facts all come with a point of view
Facts don't do what I want them to