Sunderland Vs City Post Match Thread

[steviemc]

Yet we managed to win 4-1 without risking further injury to Silva, giving him some much needed recuperation and all told we should have scored 7/8. Hart was never going to be involved in this game.
Your definition of lucky is flawed.

I think bluemc1's post was tongue-in-cheek. At least I hope it was :)

 

[Damocles]

Manager's first priority is bringing trophies back to City. That's why we spent £150m in the Summer.

You seem to have forgotten that 3 young players got game time.

One. Roberts has just been bought for £8m-12m and was playing first team football at his previous club, including games in the Premier League. If I've got my dates right here, he will NEVER qualify as a club trained player. Evans got about 3 minutes including injury time. Garcia was the only one to have any form of significant game time from the EDS and he played 16 minutes.

We were 4-0 up at the 36th minute...

 

[Marvin]

Both players had injury problems.

We did it perfectly in my opinion. Had it been lower league opposition at home you'd have a point.

Overall, bringing young players through is something we have yet to do, but it's extraordinarily difficult to do given the players in the squad and the pressures involved. Two good Cup runs will help. Perhaps Kelechi would have played had he been available. He has already played, and Pellegrini could have gone into the transfer mkt to replace Dzeko/Jovetic but he didn't.

 

[Big_Alan]

Did we lose last night or something?

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

Because this isn't one game. It's a consistent trend across 8 years where we have consistently failed to do something. The Dunning Kruger post was about hindsight and the discussion of tactics and how it could affect causality. This is about an overarching problem with how we approach bringing players through our youth system that has spanned near a decade. Many people misunderstood that as "well it's impossible to have an informed opinion on anything", of course it isn't. It isn't impossible to see that Sergio Aguero is our best striker because he has a record that can be referenced in comparison across many datapoints. It's impossible to say that Aguero would have been a better striker for a specific game than Bony because you're not working off of any data points alone in context of a single game.

Essentially, if you don't have any data to work from then it applies but if you do have data to work from that spans what is a relatively long period of time then you can form judgements based upon that. It's not necessarily correct, but you can at least have an actual opinion that is backed up.

Thanks for that Damo - appreciated sir.

 

[uwe rosler 28]

Decent performance but no better than that kolarov and sergio didn't look interested! The back line seemed incredibly slow! Willy played well as did kdb and sterling nice little cameo by roberts who will be pushing for navas spot in the squad soon! Nice easy home draw tonight please!

 

[Phil1]

I was happy with the team he put out, I gave my reasons in the pre match thread. That said there's no reason whatsoever for not giving a full half to at least two of the young lads once the score line is 4-0.
It worked out though, we got a much needed confidence booster before the weekend and nobody suffered through injury.

 

[bluemc1]

Yet we managed to win 4-1 without risking further injury to Silva, giving him some much needed recuperation and all told we should have scored 7/8. Hart was never going to be involved in this game.
Your definition of lucky is flawed.

Whooooooooosh

its early so ill let you off lol

 

[Damocles]

Both players had injury problems.

We did it perfectly in my opinion. Had it been lower league opposition at home you'd have a point.

Overall, bringing young players through is something we have yet to do, but it's extraordinarily difficult to do given the players in the squad and the pressures involved. Two good Cup runs will help. Perhaps Kelechi would have played had he been available. He has already played, and Pellegrini could have gone into the transfer mkt to replace Dzeko/Jovetic but he didn't.

• 13 Caballero
• 03 Sagna
• 11 Kolarov
• 20 Mangala
• 26 Demichelis
• 25 Fernandinho
• 18 Lampard
• 42 Y Touré
• 07 Milner
• 15 Jesús Navas
• 10 Dzeko

That was our line up in the League Cup last year at home against lower league opposition.

 

[Marvin]

One. Roberts has just been bought for £8m-12m and was playing first team football at his previous club, including games in the Premier League. If I've got my dates right here, he will NEVER qualify as a club trained player. Evans got about 3 minutes including injury time. Garcia was the only one to have any form of significant game time from the EDS and he played 16 minutes.

We were 4-0 up at the 36th minute...

So you want to argue over the optimal timing of substitutions. No thanks

 

[Phil1]

Whooooooooosh

its early so ill let you off lol

Haha! It's not easy this forum lark.

 

[Damocles]

So you want to argue over the optimal timing of substitutions. No thanks

No I want to argue that a signing that cost potentially 7 figures who has already played in the Premier League and has 25 professional games to his name who will never be club trained, and a player coming on in injury time as a feel good story don't count as effective game time for young players when we were winning 4-0 with 60 minutes of the game left

 

[Big_Alan]

So if he starts with four youngsters last night and we lose, how much game time would they get for the rest of the season?...At least we are in the pot so more games to try and integrate them..How much would it have helped if we started with four youngsters and lost and the crowd started booing? Great confidence booster..

 

[inbetween]

A good performance and I don't think we can argue too much with the selection, had we lost or played differently with the kids I'm sure many would be calling the selection, in hindsight there is no guarantee we would of won either way. Some of them got a solid bit of playing time so it isn't like they weren't involved at all. We played at snail pace for the last 15 minutes so it is not like this game has really taken the wind out of our sails.

Either way Pellegrini can't win but at the end of the day we won the game with no injuries and more importantly we reinstated some of the confidence that was chipped away last week. Now onto Spurs away.

 

[bluetonium]

I personally think Pellegrini will not be fully happy with that display. We did enough, at times we were unplayable, but we struggled with some basic things such as concentration and positioning, especially early on.

Still, many positives, first of which is KDB, seriously had my doubts about us getting him but now for me it is clear, he's a bit of Silva and a bit of Yaya, pure class and that is what you pay for. Was like watching the older kid playing with juniors at time. Plus we got some of our actual kids some game time, Manu looked at home and great to see Roberts and a local lad in Evans getting the chance.

Maybe understandable result considering how we became disjointed later on, and possibly how we had to battle and put down Sunderland's early fight, but we all could see there were more goals for us in that one and we should be ruthless.

For Sunderland, I was impressed with De Yedlin and the goalscorer, and Borini will cause problems for some defenders. Their main problem is at the back, Coates is either not at the right level or completely out of form, O' Shea didn't look up for it and the lack of discipline and understanding was summed up by their left back continually exposing the keeper, be it playing us onside or making the wrong decision to come out or hold off, he just didn't know what his teammates were doing. Also kind of justified our decision to offload Rodwell and Johnson, but I hope to see them bounce back and wish them well.

I think the best Sunderland can do now is look at someone line Fat Sam, looks like their players are not responding well to Dick.

 

[Paulpowersleftfoot]

Closing the A19 and A1 at the same time
Fucking genius move that,didn't get home until 2am and up for work at 6
Cunts

 

[moomba]

We do develop youth. If they reach our standard they'll play for us. Otherwise they go elsewhere. They'll have had a good experience with us and will go on to appropriate opportunities elsewhere if they don't make it with us. No room for sentiment.

It's not an issue of sentiment. For me creating a pathway for kids has huge benefits to any club. On the flip side, playing a first team every three to four days can be detrimental, particularly with our current injury problems.

 

[supercity88]

No, it's not the main thing. Nobody gives a shit about the League Cup and in fact it's a massive detriment that heavily impacts on the rest come January when you're playing two leg semis at Wembley, presumably still in the FA Cup and the league games. In 13/14 when we went to the semis we killed our squad by overplaying them in December/January, we had 17 games in 2 months and by the time early February game around and it was time to face a just winter breaked Barcelona we were dead on our feet. This is why outright Pellegrini will never win the Champions League because his idea of squad management is playing your best team in every game which batters our squad. Playing Sergio against Juventus, West Ham and in a fucking League Cup game when he's obviously unfit is yet another blunder in this department. No different from how he played Negredo in a League Cup game when were were 6-0 who then picked up a shoulder injury and never recovered his form. It's also why he did well at clubs like Villareal and Malaga who didn't have these fixtures to juggle.

But that's irregardless to the actual point. The actual point is that we're already starting to lose highly talented players because they can't even get a game during the League cup against Championship opposition. Sunderland are soon to be Championship opposition and we gave a £8m signing a debut who has already played numerous competitive league games, played Manu Garcia for 20 minutes then gave George Evans 3 minutes espite the game being won with 60 minutes to go. This is now the 8th consecutive year that we have failed to bring through any youth players into the squad so far. 8 years. Not one player.

We are the only team in the Champions League with 0 homegrown players, meaning we have an actual squad of 21 players unlike the 25 others have which again leads into the other problems

This is a pointless argument on here and I've been having it for years because people have no idea how good our youth players are. Unlike Nacho comes on and scores immediately and now gets posts saying he should play. Obviously he must have taken a major jump in talent in that last two weeks. People on here can't see the wood from the trees, so utterly petrified are they of our youth players that they automatically think that we'll get beat if we play them. Maffeo could walk into most Premier League sides tomorrow. He'd be the best player in any Championship side. Denayer is even better than that and is currently standing out at yet another Champions League club (after previously standing out at a different Champions League club) after we promised him first team football to get him to sign a contract then spunked £30m on a new centre back and fucked him off elsewhere. Think he's happy now? Think he's here for the long term?

I said two years ago that if you couldn't see that this was a developing problem you just weren't paying attention. Now we have 0 homegrown players, constantly knocked out of the February CL game, haven't integrated a new young player into the squad in 8 years and are pissing off most of the youth players who stand a chance to gain actual first team footballer here. If you still can't see it's a problem then it's wilful stupidity.

I wish I could argue with you but you’re completely correct in everything you say.


The starting lineup I can understand but I’m one of those people that feels nervous about fielding a young side and do anticipate a poor result if we put too many young players in the starting lineup. That’s by no means true, with a decent spine (including Caballero, Demichelis, Yaya, De Bruyne) we could have fielded just about anyone and been okay. There’s so much experience and success in that line up to “carry” the other players through.


The season is long and right now, with a 2pt lead most City fans are so happy they’re not concerned about the long term issues that could arise from picking the side we did last night. The league cup is a competition I still want City to win, but I’d prioritise the other three over it without a doubt.


If we ignore the starting lineup and look at it as a chance to allow our new players to gel, we should have made changes at half time. 4-0 up, you’d call that a success in terms of KDB, Sterling and Aguero combining. I’d have then taken Sterling, Yaya and Aguero off for Barker, Roberts and Garcia. But that’s a tough call because Maffeo should 100% have been starting last night and giving Sagna a rest. We would also have been wise to give Kolarov a break.


What is more frustrating from my point of view is the fact Sterling has been taken off the pitch twice in our two defeats, when he’s clearly been a major threat to the opposition and should have stayed on. I thought this may have been a case of protecting him from too many minutes and over exposure… but then he plays again last night and is kept on despite the lead! That’s crazy in my mind. That shows that Pellegrini not only actually means it when he says he thinks the League Cup is important and a competition we want to win, he also thinks taking Sterling off against Juve and West Ham was tactically the right thing to do.


If we suffer a major dip in form towards the end of the season then it’s decisions like this that can cost us. We should be sheltering players even at this early stage. Particularly when we’ve been without options in central midfield and at full back for most of the season.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Positives, Fernando looked sharp and as good as I`ve seen him, Kevin De Bruyne looked brilliant, Otamendi and Demichelis formed a great partnership, Willy had a good game. Negative Sergio is struggling for form.

 

[Kaini Industries]

Can't believe we actually lost last night. Gutted :(

If nobody gives a shit about the League Cup then presumably the experience of playing in it isn't worth anything.