Veganism

andyhinch said:
Don't you know farmers go out of their way to torture animals, sure it's time consuming and costs a fortune, but that's what farmers do. This is one seriously deluded fuck wit.
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Well it's true that there are a lot of extremely painful procedures carried out on animals in factory farming. For instance, piglets are often castrated with no anaesthetic. If they watch it happening, I expect most people would agree that it's not unreasonable to describe this as
'torture' (or at least, it's a 'torturous' experience for the piglet).

However, I do think it is unreasonable to refer to someone you disagree with as a 'deluded fuck wit', especially when you're demonstrably wrong on the point in question.
 
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My own mother is a veggie. She cried at free willy and I still thought she was stupid. And told her. She used to love fish. Now won't touch it. We're a nation on an island. Fuck the treatment of cows. Why not eat fish?
 
andyhinch said:
Don't you know farmers go out of their way to torture animals, sure it's time consuming and costs a fortune, but that's what farmers do. This is one seriously deluded fuck wit.
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Do you think the chicks want to be caged? Want to be debeaked? And pigs, do you think they like having teeth cut? tails cut? and as said above, balls cut off? What about other stuff like branding, electrocution, hooked up to milking machines until they collapse?

I don't know what you think it's like in these factory farms mate.
 
BlueTangerine said:
Do you think the chicks want to be caged? Want to be debeaked? And pigs, do you think they like having teeth cut? tails cut? and as said above, balls cut off? What about other stuff like branding, electrocution, hooked up to milking machines until they collapse?

I don't know what you think it's like in these factory farms mate.
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Not all animals are factory farmed. There's plenty of organic/free range meat, poultry, milk, eggs etc. Does your disdain for meat eaters extend to those that buy organic products?
 
BlueTangerine said:
Do you think the chicks want to be caged? Want to be debeaked? And pigs, do you think they like having teeth cut? tails cut? and as said above, balls cut off? What about other stuff like branding, electrocution, hooked up to milking machines until they collapse?

I don't know what you think it's like in these factory farms mate.
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Have you ever worked in one or slaughtered an animal ? I have, I don't buy much supermarket meat, hence one of my posts, I notice you didn't answer my question about how happy you'd be about letting livestock starve to death due to dereliction if we didn't eat meat or the very odd idea about not eating veal, I am an animal lover believe it or not, no harm in seeing the big picture though
 
BlueTangerine said:
Do you think the chicks want to be caged? Want to be debeaked? And pigs, do you think they like having teeth cut? tails cut? and as said above, balls cut off? What about other stuff like branding, electrocution, hooked up to milking machines until they collapse?

I don't know what you think it's like in these factory farms mate.
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Woke up this morning to find one of my goslings dead. The other gosling killed it. Twats to each other aren't they.
 
BlueTangerine said:
Do you think the chicks want to be caged? Want to be debeaked? And pigs, do you think they like having teeth cut? tails cut? and as said above, balls cut off? What about other stuff like branding, electrocution, hooked up to milking machines until they collapse?

I don't know what you think it's like in these factory farms mate.
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I think the animals you have quoted do not have sufficient level of consciousness to have "wants"
 
BlueTangerine said:
Do you think the chicks want to be caged? Want to be debeaked? And pigs, do you think they like having teeth cut? tails cut? and as said above, balls cut off? What about other stuff like branding, electrocution, hooked up to milking machines until they collapse?

I don't know what you think it's like in these factory farms mate.
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Jews chop each others bollocks off. And that's humans to each other. You are still talking through your fucking arse.
 
A few replies to give the alternate viewpoint. Not trying to be an arse; just addressing a few things.

west didsblue said:
Not all animals are factory farmed. There's plenty of organic/free range meat, poultry, milk, eggs etc. Does your disdain for meat eaters extend to those that buy organic products?
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OK, but do you honestly only buy organic animal products? What about all these products on the shelves that contain gelatine, lactose etc. You can bet they those are not organically farmed.

andyhinch said:
I notice you didn't answer my question about how happy you'd be about letting livestock starve to death due to dereliction if we didn't eat meat or the very odd idea about not eating veal
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It's staggering that there are people who still use that argument. Not sure if you're being serious or not, but nobody is expecting everyone to wake up tomorrow and go vegan. But a good number of people are doing it. It's a gradual process. If fewer people demand the product, fewer animals will be produced. Vegans will argue that if they're not born in the first place, then no harm is done.

And do you genuinely consider it odd that people are opposed to veal? The calf is taken from its mother at the age of a few days, then lives its life in a crate where it can't move. The idea is that if they are underdeveloped and the muscles become atrophied, the meat will be more tender. They are intentionally deprived of iron and water to make them anaemic. So they tend to suffer deformities and broken bones etc because of being stuck in this tiny box for their whole life. Can you really not see how people might not like this? You seriously think that's 'odd' that people might be opposed to that?

Damocles said:
I think the animals you have quoted do not have sufficient level of consciousness to have "wants"
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I think they probably do. And I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. It's also very much likely that they feel pain, as I've discussed above.

Yaya_Tony said:
Jews chop each others bollocks off. And that's humans to each other. You are still talking through your fucking arse.
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Serious question: in what way is he talking through his arse? Do you think those practices don't take place on factory farms? Or do you mean that these things do happen but it doesn't matter?
 
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andyhinch said:
Have you ever worked in one or slaughtered an animal ? I have, I don't buy much supermarket meat, hence one of my posts, I notice you didn't answer my question about how happy you'd be about letting livestock starve to death due to dereliction if we didn't eat meat or the very odd idea about not eating veal, I am an animal lover believe it or not, no harm in seeing the big picture though
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So we're doing them a favour? We breed them in these numbers you know. That's where we are different. I am not an animal lover. I don't want to be near a cow or a cat or a sheep. I just don't want a feeling thing harmed unnecessarily. I'm a weirdo.
 
BlueTangerine said:
Yeah you've said many times. What is your view? What will be will be? Don't change anything! Nature knows what it's doing!
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My view is that if you can physically kill it and eat it, or if you can raise it and then kill it, or raise a shitload of them and eat the produce, no fucking problem. Or eat fucking peas all day
 
Stuuuuuu said:
A few replies to give the alternate viewpoint. Not trying to be an arse; just addressing a few things.


OK, but do you honestly only buy organic animal products? What about all these products on the shelves that contain gelatine, lactose etc. You can bet they those are not organically farmed.


It's staggering that there are people who still use that argument. Not sure if you're being serious or not, but nobody is expecting everyone to wake up tomorrow and go vegan. But a good number of people are. It's a gradual process. If less people demand the product, fewer animals will be produced. Vegans will argue that if they're not born in the first place, then no harm is done.

And do you genuinely consider it odd that people are opposed to veal? The calf is taken from its mother at the age of a few days, then lives its life in a crate where it can't move. The idea is that if they are underdeveloped and the muscles become atrophied, the meat will be more tender. They are intentionally deprived of iron and water to make them anaemic. So they tend to suffer deformities and broken bones etc because of being stuck in this tiny box for their whole life. Can you really not see how people might not like this? You seriously think that's 'odd' that people might be opposed to that?


I think they probably do. And I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. It's also very much likely that they feel pain, as I've discussed above.


Serious question: in what way is he talking through his arse? Do you think those practices don't take place on factory farms? Or do you mean that these things do happen but it doesn't matter?
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He's talking through his arse because he's being a twat about a lifestyle decision he's made and expects everyone else to agree with. Newsflash. Not everyone does.
 
Stuuuuuu said:
A few replies to give the alternate viewpoint. Not trying to be an arse; just addressing a few things.


OK, but do you honestly only buy organic animal products? What about all these products on the shelves that contain gelatine, lactose etc. You can bet they those are not organically farmed.


It's staggering that there are people who still use that argument. Not sure if you're being serious or not, but nobody is expecting everyone to wake up tomorrow and go vegan. But a good number of people are. It's a gradual process. If less people demand the product, fewer animals will be produced. Vegans will argue that if they're not born in the first place, then no harm is done.

And do you genuinely consider it odd that people are opposed to veal? The calf is taken from its mother at the age of a few days, then lives its life in a crate where it can't move. The idea is that if they are underdeveloped and the muscles become atrophied, the meat will be more tender. They are intentionally deprived of iron and water to make them anaemic. So they tend to suffer deformities and broken bones etc because of being stuck in this tiny box for their whole life. Can you really not see how people might not like this? You seriously think that's 'odd' that people might be opposed to that?


I think they probably do. And I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. It's also very much likely that they feel pain, as I've discussed above.


Serious question: in what way is he talking through his arse? Do you think those practices don't take place on factory farms? Or do you mean that these things do happen but it doesn't matter?
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So you'd rather they were killed at birth as is the norm? Suppose a gradual decimation of all live stock is also ok, shame for the ones that starve to death, but if it's a long slow death probably works ok, still not sure if you've ever worked with animals in this context, I don't like to prejudge
 
Yaya_Tony said:
He's talking through his arse because he's being a twat about a lifestyle decision he's made and expects everyone else to agree with. Newsflash. Not everyone does.
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I didn't expect everyone to agree with me. But if you believe animals feel pain, and your tastebuds and convenience are more important, then call yourself a selfish twat and move on.
 
andyhinch said:
So you'd rather they were killed at birth as is the norm? Suppose a gradual decimation of all live stock is also ok, shame for the ones that starve to death, but if it's a long slow death probably works ok, still not sure if you've ever worked with animals in this context, I don't like to prejudge
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What on earth are... Sorry but none of your posts seem to make sense. Maybe I'm missing something, but they wouldn't be killed at birth. And they wouldn't starve to death. I'm not sure if you're just on the WUM or if you actually believe what you're saying.
 
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