champions league performances - tactically unsophisticated

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blue city199

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I know Patrice evra is a rag but he makes a good point about English teams in Europe . To his credit he also says rags could have won more in Europe if rednose had any tactical nous.
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/im-worried-about-english-football-evra#iPRfkOmrMP7vr2WO.99
'I'm worried about English football' - Evra

Former Manchester United defender Patrice Evra says English clubs are tactically inferior to their European rivals.

Patrice Evra says English clubs struggle in Europe due to a lack of tactical sophistication and claims he was not worried when Juventus faced Manchester City in the Champions League.

The French full-back spent eight years in England with Manchester United, winning the Champions League and reaching the final twice.

He left Old Trafford for Juve in July 2014, winning Serie A in his first season and appearing in another European final, losing the tournament's decider to personal nemeses Barcelona for the third time in his career.

After strong continental showings between 2005 and 2011, Premier League clubs have struggled to make an impact in recent years.

And Evra has told the Sunday Times he believes English teams are not preparing thoroughly enough to be successful in the Champions League.

"I'm a little bit worried about English football," he said.

"Why? In Europe, being fast, being strong, playing only with your quality, you are going to struggle against teams that prepare. That is where England has to work, it is about tactics. But it is not easy, because the players won't accept it.

"When Juventus played Manchester City … I was not worried," he added, referring to a clash the Italian side won 2-1 at the Eithad Stadium in September.

The 34-year-old also claimed he was surprised to discover how strategic the approach to winning is in Italy, something he feels could have been of benefit to United even as they collected an extraordinary haul of silverware under former manager Alex Ferguson.

"I learnt a lot about a way to be more professional - even if I was already a massive professional in Manchester," he said.

"I was sometimes thinking, 'You win a lot of trophies for Manchester but you could have done much more if you had known the more cultured European way to play.'

"The Premier League is like two boxers fighting. The one who is least strong gets tired, he goes down. Here it is like a chess game and you have to understand every move before you play with your quality, your strength, your skill. That's the difference."
 
I don't see how or why they are like this though.

Take us for example, the vast majority of our players have come from other, more "tactically superior" leagues. Our manager has coached for many years in Spain, as has his assistant. Our footballing director came from FC Barcelona. Why are we much different then to other teams in Europe? Is is the calibre and type of opponents we generally face week in week out that leaves us under prepared?
 
We do have some tricks to learn that's for sure. Juve killed that game stone dead at 2-1 up. It was a master class in how to waste time until the final whistle.
 
ws01 said:
I don't see how or why they are like this though.

Take us for example, the vast majority of our players have come from other, more "tactically superior" leagues. Our manager has coached for many years in Spain, as has his assistant. Our footballing director came from FC Barcelona. Why are we much different then to other teams in Europe? Is is the calibre and type of opponents we generally face week in week out that leaves us under prepared?
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Exactly. If it's just a question of tactics, then how come Ancelotti and Mourinho can't do it with an English club but can in every other country? How come Roberto Di Matteo and Rafa Benitez can win it with teams that are clearly not the most talented in the competition?

It's a cup competition, so there's always an element of luck involved, especially with similarly matched sides. But in general, the countries with the better teams do better on average. The reason why English clubs haven't done well in the past few years is because they haven't had great teams. Between 2005 and 2009, we had 6 out of the 10 finalists. Since then, we've had just one finalist, because we haven't had teams that are as good as Barca, Real, Bayern, etc. Since then, Chelsea suffered a slump in quality (although ironically won the CL with a far worse team than their best), Arsenal sold their best players every season for years, and are only now getting back to where they were, Liverpool have completely dropped off the map as a Premier League force, and the rags have sold world class players, had world class players retire, and have failed to replace them.

We've struggled to get to grips with the competition for a number of reasons. We're quite unique in being one of the only teams in history to be a massive scalp before we've even played a game in the competition. We've also been incredibly unlucky with draws (well not unlucky, it's designed that way), going up against the best Bayern team ever, the best Dortmund team for decades, the best Barcelona team ever... We've also failed to be organised enough defensively in the league, never mind the CL, so it's not a massive surprise to see that against better teams in a knock out competition, that becomes a problem. Hopefully we've addressed that somewhat this season.
 
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It's hard for PL clubs but the biggest factor for me is the physicality, in the Champions League, every tackle is a yellow card, it's a competition ridden with diving and play acting, whereas in the PL 50/50 tackles are allowed, it's a completely different style too. Look at how many red cards we've been given for fairly innocuous challenges, it's borderline ridiculous.

I believe it's a bit too fanciful to just use tactics, as look at the calibre of managers we've had over here. I doubt any of them are tactically naive enough, or the players unprofessional enough to deny their managers.
 
I've always had the sense that tactics in Italy come higher up the footballing values scale than in England. Whether that applies to continental football in general, I'm not sure.
 
What a load of bollocks. The English league is tough and the number of games, with cup competitions makes it very hard to succeed domestically and in Europe. Generally a club suffers in one or both. No winter break doesn't help either. The other European sides are rested and come back for the CL knockouts fresh, we go into them after a heavy run of fixtures and the third round of the FA Cup. And then League Cup semi's are played as well... Juve generally can coast domestically and prioritise Europe. So can Spanish teams. It's so much easier for them and then they can keep up their performance levels.

The prem has weakened in quality slightly and become more competitive but I do not believe we're tactically weaker than anywhere else.
 
The PL is just crash bang wallop shite. Players get used to playing that way and then find it harder to readapt to playing Euro football 6 times in autumn and winter.

PL teams are getting humped by Swiss clubs and struggling all over Europe. Italian and Spanish teams are light years ahead including the smaller clubs.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
We do have some tricks to learn that's for sure. Juve killed that game stone dead at 2-1 up. It was a master class in how to waste time until the final whistle.
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That's exactly what happened. MP should have shut up shop at 1-0 and said try and break us down. But hey ho, all part of the roller coaster ride.
 
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