EU referendum deal (title edited)

[mat]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35230959

PM to make statement at 15:30

I hope whatever your views on it that you turn out and vote.

 

[CTID1988]

I haven't read enough into it to know what the majority opinion seems to be at the moment. Do more people want to stay in or exit the EU?

And what are the real benefits of exiting? At the moment i think id vote to stay with the EU, but im not even sure why

 

[mat]

Personally I want to stay in.

It has a lot of good but also bad. Staying in protects a lot of employment rights. Downside is corporates have started lobbying the EU and agreements such as TTIP are worrying developments.

Sadly I can see the debate being pushed down the immigration route and parties such as UKIP capitalising on it.

 

[urmston]

Personally I want to stay in.

It has a lot of good but also bad. Staying in protects a lot of employment rights. Downside is corporates have started lobbying the EU and agreements such as TTIP are worrying developments.

Sadly I can see the debate being pushed down the immigration route and parties such as UKIP capitalising on it.

Employment rights mean nothing if you don't have a job.

The EU has terrible unemployment problems and in the UK many peoples terms and conditions of employment have suffered greatly because of the freedom of movement of labour.

Here is Labour's Jack Straw admitting this.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/13/jack-straw-labour-mistake-poles


The EU is good for elites and big business. It is bad for everyone else.

 

[manchester blue]

I haven't read enough into it to know what the majority opinion

This is the problem politicians will have. Most people do not know much about it and a lot will make their minds up at the last minute probably for the wrong reasons.
I am against it as I don’t want federalisation. I don’t want a European army. I don’t want a European police force. I don’t want European wide VAT policy. I don’t want open borders. I do want single market access and this is still possible without EU membership. Ask Norway.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Majority of people that I know want out of the EU solely because of immigration. They don't care about anything else.

 

[mat]

Employment rights mean nothing if you don't have a job.

The EU has terrible unemployment problems and in the UK many peoples terms and conditions of employment have suffered greatly because of the freedom of movement of labour.

Here is Labour's Jack Straw admitting this.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/13/jack-straw-labour-mistake-poles


The EU is good for elites and big business. It is bad for everyone else.

The recent TTIP deal enforces that view.

A friend of mine was asked to participate in a debate on liberalisation of European railways and his view after the meeting was "They are all for it as long as the trains are Belgian and they are run by Germans"

I'm lucky enough to be in a job where I can travel around Europe very easily and cheaply so I'm also attracted to staying in for the social aspect. There's no doubt I'd lose some of those privileges by a get out vote winning.

I'd like the government to tell us what would happen should we vote no with regards to laws and rights. Both the perceived good and bad.

 

[happy daze]

This is the problem politicians will have. Most people do not know much about it and a lot will make their minds up at the last minute probably for the wrong reasons.
I am against it as I don’t want federalisation. I don’t want a European army. I don’t want a European police force. I don’t want European wide VAT policy. I don’t want open borders. I do want single market access and this is still possible without EU membership. Ask Norway.

Excellent post, and why though I voted yes first time round will be voting to leave this time.

 

[bugsyblue]

Employment rights mean nothing if you don't have a job.

The EU has terrible unemployment problems and in the UK many peoples terms and conditions of employment have suffered greatly because of the freedom of movement of labour.

Here is Labour's Jack Straw admitting this.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/13/jack-straw-labour-mistake-poles


The EU is good for elites and big business. It is bad for everyone else.

Have you got an example of how people's terms and conditions of trade have been affected by freedom of movement labour?

And please don't try and imply cheap labour in the UK is a result of immigration when it's the government who decides what the minimum wage is. Migration has done a hell of a lot to benefit our economy and saved a number of industries who had vastly under qualified staff. NHS is a prime example of an industry that about ten years ago was starved of a number of qualified staff and benefitted from highly trained Europeans and beyond coming here and working.

Don't get me wrong there are pros and cons to freedom of movement but the benefits far out weigh the cons for me.

My main concern with the EU is centralisation of power in Brussels and non democratically elected EMPs.

 

[urmston]

Have you got an example of how people's terms and conditions of trade have been affected by freedom of movement labour?

Read the guardian article by Jack Straw that I linked to in my last post.

Are you suggesting that allowing a vast new supply of workers to enter the UK had no effect on pay, terms and conditions of those already here?

If EU membership so good for workers, why have we seen a stubbornly high unemployment rate, a vast increase in zero hours contracts and much more underemployment on short hours?

And why did every older EU country except the UK, Sweden and Ireland ban immigration for workers from newer ones like Poland in 2004?

The EU is good for big business.

If you are a big business boss then vote to stay in.

 

[Nails]

Read the guardian article by Jack Straw that I linked to in my last post.

Are you suggesting that allowing a vast new supply of workers to enter the UK had no effect on pay, terms and conditions of those already here?

If EU membership so good for workers, why have we seen a stubbornly high unemployment rate, a vast increase in zero hours contracts and much more underemployment on short hours?

And why did every older EU country except the UK, Sweden and Ireland ban immigration for workers from newer ones like Poland in 2004?

The EU is good for big business.

If you are a big business boss then vote to stay in.

Because of the incompetent bell-ends who are the government. I live in Sweden. We love the EU, although we kept our currency. When they hear of the anti-EU nonsense in the UK press and the Tories being voted in again, people here just shake their heads. They genuinely think the British are unhinged. I think they might be right.

 

[Len Rum]

This is the problem politicians will have. Most people do not know much about it and a lot will make their minds up at the last minute probably for the wrong reasons.
I am against it as I don’t want federalisation. I don’t want a European army. I don’t want a European police force. I don’t want European wide VAT policy. I don’t want open borders. I do want single market access and this is still possible without EU membership. Ask Norway.

Not Norway again.
They have to comply with a lot of EU legislation to get their trade deal with the EU.
Crucially though they are a much smaller country than the UK and no way could the EU allow a member state the size of the UK to leave but still trade on favourable terms without being a full member of the club.
If they did this the whole pack of cards would come crashing down as other states rushed to get the same favourable deal i.e. all the benefits but without the cost.

 

[urmston]

Because of the incompetent bell-ends who are the government. I live in Sweden. We love the EU, although we kept our currency. When they hear of the anti-EU nonsense in the UK press and the Tories being voted in again, people here just shake their heads. They genuinely think the British are unhinged. I think they might be right.

Sweden?

You mean the country that so loves the EU ethos that it has just re-introduced border controls?

 

[bugsyblue]

Read the guardian article by Jack Straw that I linked to in my last post.

Are you suggesting that allowing a vast new supply of workers to enter the UK had no effect on pay, terms and conditions of those already here?

If EU membership so good for workers, why have we seen a stubbornly high unemployment rate, a vast increase in zero hours contracts and much more underemployment on short hours?

And why did every older EU country except the UK, Sweden and Ireland ban immigration for workers from newer ones like Poland in 2004?

The EU is good for big business.

If you are a big business boss then vote to stay in.

I'm not saying it has no effect I'm saying it has the effect the government allows it to have. Zero hour contacts... Blame immigration. English people paid less... Blame immigration. Why don't you try blaming the government who actually directly impacts and has power to change these things?

And we don't have a high unemployment rate? Where have you got that from? I imagine other countries banned immigration for workers because they didn't have the jobs available in the first place. I'd argue we do.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Employment rights mean nothing if you don't have a job.

The EU has terrible unemployment problems and in the UK many peoples terms and conditions of employment have suffered greatly because of the freedom of movement of labour.

Here is Labour's Jack Straw admitting this.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/13/jack-straw-labour-mistake-poles


The EU is good for elites and big business. It is bad for everyone else.

Being in the EU is good for elites and big business. Being out of the EU is also good for elites and big business. The status quo and all the alternatives are bad for everyone else. The sooner we have a government that governs for the benefit of the population rather than the elites and big business the better for everyone else. Unfortunately I am too cynical to think it will ever happen.

I am in favour of an ECONOMIC union but this has been hijacked into a political and social union where the economic benefits are tied to ever increasing union. When the chips are down, though, as we have seen with refugee crisis, every nation puts its own interest at the top of the agenda, whatever the 'rules' of the EU might be, and they are clearly in 'fuck the Union mode'!

 

[grunge]

I'm not saying it has no effect I'm saying it has the effect the government allows it to have. Zero hour contacts... Blame immigration. English people paid less... Blame immigration. Why don't you try blaming the government who actually directly impacts and has power to change these things?

And we don't have a high unemployment rate? Where have you got that from? I imagine other countries banned immigration for workers because they didn't have the jobs available in the first place. I'd argue we do.

While I don't doubt there are certain industries that have been impacted wage wise by immigration, a larger work force will mean people willing to work for less to make sure they get the job. but I doubt its a major impact, and if its a problem the government should raise the minimum wage to rectify it. Zero hour contracts are helpful to the government as they make job figures look rosier than they are, but they dont really help the people on them.

Saying that I will ( unless something major changes between now and then ) be voting to stay in the EU, I honestly see leaving the EU would be disaterous to the UK in the short to mid term.

 

[Nails]

Sweden?

You mean the country that so loves the EU ethos that it has just re-introduced border controls?

Yes, because unlike the dead-eyed British, we actually took in people fleeing war and torture. We took as many as we could accommodate (190,000 in 2015) but can take no more. I don't see what your point is. I'm not even sure you understand what your point is. We more than fulfilled our obligations as an EU member state. The UK is barely fulfilling its function as a society. It's as close to bankrupt as a first world nation will ever be.

 

[BimboBob]

Out.

It's plain that the EU members want us to stay in for their own economic reasons and little else.

They will still flourish without us and so will we especially as we will be free from so much bureaucracy.

 

[CityStu]

Yes, because unlike the dead-eyed British, we actually took in people fleeing war and torture. We took as many as we could accommodate (190,000 in 2015) but can take no more. I don't see what your point is. I'm not even sure you understand what your point is. We more than fulfilled our obligations as an EU member state. The UK is barely fulfilling its function as a society. It's as close to bankrupt as a first world nation will ever be.

What if the UK has taken as many immigrants as it can accommodate and can therefore take no more people? I'd welcome more refugees if we could house, educate and treat them if needed, but we can't.

England's population density is the highest of any reasonably sized nation in the EU, so why should we keep taking more and more people?

 

[Nails]

What if the UK has taken as many immigrants as it can accommodate and can therefore take no more people? I'd welcome more refugees if we could house, educate and treat them if needed, but we can't.

England's population density is the highest of any reasonably sized nation in the EU, so why should we keep taking more and more people?

I said the UK. Not England.