EU referendum deal (title edited)

[BigJoe#1]

10 billion won't go along way to potential losses in trade deals or replacing all the new civil service and infrastructure to deal with the 1000's of new treaties and agreement s and enforcing them. The U.K. Could blow this amount in one crappy millitary deal

10 billion is a piddling amount to take any major risk for

That's the thing though isn't it...? What makes you think we'd be any worse off, if not even better off?

3m jobs in the UK depend upon European contract, apparently 5m jobs in Europe droned on British contracts.

As for the ten billion, which by the way, would enable all the current European subsidies and grants to be paid would fund the NHS without further taxation and cuts.....

I appreciate it may be a piddling amount to done, but used wisely it would a massive boost to the economy and fund huge growth.

 

[BigJoe#1]

You sure you've not seen his speech early?

That looks spot on what he'll say.

Gut feeling... lol

 

[EalingBlue2]

That's the thing though isn't it...? What makes you think we'd be any worse off, if not even better off?

3m jobs in the UK depend upon European contract, apparently 5m jobs in Europe droned on British contracts.

As for the ten billion, which by the way, would enable all the current European subsidies and grants to be paid would fund the NHS without further taxation and cuts.....

I appreciate it may be a piddling amount to done, but used wisely it would a massive boost to the economy and fund huge growth.

It wouldn't be able to be used wisely it would be used to address the downsides of going out, there will be pros and cons and the same problems will be there - in or out is almost irellevant to so many of the substantive issues facing the uk. The debate is sad as it is one group of people looking to blame others for their own problems vs another group who don't accept their problems. Both in so many ways are wrong!

The U.K. Actually needs to address the big issues it needs to face up to, determine what needs to be done and then with an actual plan determine whether that can best be done in or out of Europe . At the moment The UK resembles a husband and wife arguing about whether to take the M1 or M6 to drive from London to Cornwall

 

[SWP's back]

It wouldn't be able to be used wisely it would be used to address the downsides of going out, there will be pros and cons and the same problems will be there - in or out is almost irellevant to so many of the substantive issues facing the uk. The debate is sad as it is one group of people looking to blame others for their own problems vs another group who don't accept their problems. Both in so many ways are wrong!

The U.K. Actually needs to address the big issues it needs to face up to, determine what needs to be done and then with an actual plan determine whether that can best be done in or out of Europe . At the moment The UK resembles a husband and wife arguing about whether to take the M1 or M6 to drive from London to Cornwall

If it's so irrelevant, why do you press the pro side so often?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Apparently, we're on a century long decline, not relevant, and generally unable to look after ourselves without being
told how to by Germany. In a counter argument we also hear how rich we are as a country, so we're well able to solve
the worlds problems.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Apparently, we're on a century long decline, not relevant, and generally unable to look after ourselves without being
told how to by Germany. In a counter argument we also hear how rich we are as a country, so we're well able to solve
the worlds problems.

Those are a few of the things Britain needs to resolve for itself before it makes decisions in Europe.

There is no strategy for the UK, people want lots of things but don't want to pay for them, they want the growth immigration brings without the immigration, the NHS without the cost, living into old age without sacrifices today to pay for it.
Britain wants immigrants but only if a certain kind and with no model of how to attract them , great trade deals with no plan of what to offer in the long term. More freedom but without a plan to do with it.

Hell the UK doesn't even know if it wants to be the UK or splitting up into many countries, it doesn't know if it wants to be relevant to the world politically,? Militarily? Economically? And if so how.

Until the UK has made its mind up on a goal, an identity and what it wants to become voting on Europe is just voting on which wrong direction to take

 

[EalingBlue2]

If it's so irrelevant, why do you press the pro side so often?

It's not so much the pro side as the stupidity of making change with no goals , no plan just to put off problems and allow others to be blamed rather than addressing the issues.

My inclination is to be pro but frankly at the moment there is no more a plan and strategy and end goal for pro than anti and there is an equally poor and flawed campaign.

 

[foxy]

I'm sick of news reporters and the BBC suggesting the main reason for #brexit is immigration. It's not, it's the money that goes in to the EU and what Britain gets out of it. On top of that the EU undermines UK democracy as EU laws dictate UK. There's too much scaremongering going about, especially people warning about defence. Regardless of whether we are in the EU or not we are part of NATO.

 

[EalingBlue2]

I'm sick of news reporters and the BBC suggesting the main reason for #brexit is immigration. It's not, it's the money that goes in to the EU and what Britain gets out of it. On top of that the EU undermines UK democracy as EU laws dictate UK. There's too much scaremongering going about, especially people warning about defence. Regardless of whether we are in the EU or not we are part of NATO.

This is the point - there is this point that it is wrong EU laws overrule UK Laws it really isn't a problem. What matters is whether the law is good or bad and a good EU law will always beat a bad UK let and vice versa. Democracy again irellevant whether it is democracy for A council ward, a city, a country, a nation or a continent what matters is what that democracy brings. Huge democracies can easily make better decisions than small ones and vice versa.
The scaremongering is suggesting that per se EU laws are worse than British ones or that democracy is weaker in a small area than a big one.
Would Mississippi vote for a better President than the USA, would Alaska set better Laws than the US etc.
The discussion should be about what laws are actually harming things, why and what should be done. The question should be about what a large democracy costs a smaller democracy and where that is better and where it doesn't work .
All are arbitrary areas and determining that something is good or bad based on size or what was determined 500 years ago is daft, judging based on specific laws and specific votes and their consequences is sensible.

 

[foxy]

This is the point - there is this point that it is wrong EU laws overrule UK Laws it really isn't a problem. What matters is whether the law is good or bad and a good EU law will always beat a bad UK let and vice versa. Democracy again irellevant whether it is democracy for A council ward, a city, a country, a nation or a continent what matters is what that democracy brings. Huge democracies can easily make better decisions than small ones and vice versa.
The scaremongering is suggesting that per se EU laws are worse than British ones or that democracy is weaker in a small area than a big one.
Would Mississippi vote for a better President than the USA, would Alaska set better Laws than the US etc.
The discussion should be about what laws are actually harming things, why and what should be done. The question should be about what a large democracy costs a smaller democracy and where that is better and where it doesn't work .
All are arbitrary areas and determining that something is good or bad based on size or what was determined 500 years ago is daft, judging based on specific laws and specific votes and their consequences is sensible.

But there is no democracy in the EU. Who voted for Angela Merkel to dictate on foreign policy? Who voted for Donald Tusk to lecture us on benefit reforms?