EU referendum

[whp.blue]

What I would love to know from the outters is what is Britains future in the world?
Do you want EEA - I assume not based on comments on controlling law/immigration?
What does Britain offer in trade deals that other countries cannot get for themselves?
What is the future of Britain's economy?
Where will economic growth come from without immigration? If immigration continues where will it come from?
How will returning Brits be accommodated and how will this ageing of the population be addressed?
What are the actual laws that need to be changed?
How will Britain approach a world outside Europe? What level of UK bueraucracy will need to be changed?
Etc etc

I don't get where the Returning Brits notion comes from returning from where? I have seen people use this scare on here before but it makes very little sense

if we vote out do you seriously think every brit in the eu will be sent home? absolute drivel The Spanish economy is a basket case now and if all the ex pats came home Spain would go bust even before the backlash of Brits not going there on holiday

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The returning Brits is a point raised by EU supporters attempting to justify their support for untrammelled immigration, by
inferring that other European countries would retaliate against controls. What is ignored is the fact that the majority of British ex pats
are retired folk, who've bought homes, are in receipt of a stable income, are not claiming benefits, and are net contributors to their
adopted country. This kind of immigrant is welcome anywhere, and are not going to be kicked out, the host countries would be mad to
do so.

 

[grunge]

I don't get where the Returning Brits notion comes from returning from where? I have seen people use this scare on here before but it makes very little sense

if we vote out do you seriously think every brit in the eu will be sent home? absolute drivel The Spanish economy is a basket case now and if all the ex pats came home Spain would go bust even before the backlash of Brits not going there on holiday

Its just one of the many things that will have to be negotiated. Can't see us kicking out all the eu migrants and I can't see the eu forcing a return of all the uk ones back. But it would need to negotiated.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I am a bit of a loss as to what the Eurocrats are really after. Their supporters, mostly the kind who end up as MEPs, Commissioners, of the likes of Kinnock, former apparatchiks such Clegg, and general hangers-on, offer their allegiance because it is a highly lucrative career. But just what fuckin' good do any of them do for the general European public? I have an inbuilt scepticism of the good any of our own MPs do, so these Brussells luvvies have a lot to achieve before I can warm to any useful function they might perform. This is what the EU is for me, and I come to the conclusion that it is a gross waste of money for most, and highly profitable for a few.

 

[grunge]

The returning Brits is a point raised by EU supporters attempting to justify their support for untrammelled immigration, by
inferring that other European countries would retaliate against controls. What is ignored is the fact that the majority of British ex pats
are retired folk, who've bought homes, are in receipt of a stable income, are not claiming benefits, and are net contributors to their
adopted country. This kind of immigrant is welcome anywhere, and are not going to be kicked out, the host countries would be mad to
do so.

The majority of people emigrating from the uk are of working age.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...-the-thousands-fleeing-Britain-each-year.html

The notion that UK emigrants are good while incoming migrants are bad defies logic.

And there are plenty of sources out there that prove migrants coming into the uk have a positive effect on the economy.

 

[grunge]

EU myth busting, I've not fact checked it but it seems like a decent article.

http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/mythbusters/

 

[CityStu]

The majority of people emigrating from the uk are of working age.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...-the-thousands-fleeing-Britain-each-year.html

The notion that UK emigrants are good while incoming migrants are bad defies logic.

And there are plenty of sources out there that prove migrants coming into the uk have a positive effect on the economy.

Your article is interesting but not EU specific. It could well be that the majority of the working age people leaving for better job prospects are moving to other English speaking nations like Australia and the US.

In any case, the argument is perfectly logical when you consider the reason for migration. If UK citizens are leaving for better job prospects or a sunny retirement then you can be confident that they will be of benefit to their new host country.

In contrast, the UK is seen as a golden goose by many residents of the Eastern bloc of the EU and they move here because of the welfare benefits we will provide for them (including health and education).

On your last sentence, I haven't seen anything on that topic broken into EU and non-EU. It would make sense that the non-EU lot are contributors since they have to fulfil the requirements of a VISA.

 

[EalingBlue2]

I don't get where the Returning Brits notion comes from returning from where? I have seen people use this scare on here before but it makes very little sense

if we vote out do you seriously think every brit in the eu will be sent home? absolute drivel The Spanish economy is a basket case now and if all the ex pats came home Spain would go bust even before the backlash of Brits not going there on holiday

No what will happen is those that are net positive will be kept by their countries and those that are poorer, older, Unhealthier will likely to come home, if Britain decides to cherry pick who is kept then it is fair to say the EU will do the same. also a lot of the Brits in Europe are a lot more asset poor than they used to be particularly in Spain.

The idea that Britain can cherry pick all the good stuff and an angry Europe won't do the same is the biggest weakness of the out group and a lot of this should have been discussed and agreed before the vote as otherwise everyone is voting on a Panglossian version of what an "out" Britain will be like and not a reality.

It's like factoring in taking 100% of all assets in a divorce and assuming that an aggrieved partner will behave graciously and rationally in giving you all the assets

 

[CityStu]

No what will happen is those that are net positive will be kept by their countries and those that are poorer, older, Unhealthier will likely to come home, if Britain decides to cherry pick who is kept then it is fair to say the EU will do the same.

In which case the reliant people returning to the UK will have had resources freed up for them by the return of EU citizens that aren't contributing.

 

[grunge]

In contrast, the UK is seen as a golden goose by many residents of the Eastern bloc of the EU and they move here because of the welfare benefits we will provide for them (including health and education).

On your last sentence, I haven't seen anything on that topic broken into EU and non-EU. It would make sense that the non-EU lot are contributors since they have to fulfil the requirements of a VISA.

I'll see if I can find them, Im sure i've seen ones broken down, and im not sure I believe the whole Eastern bloc seeing the UK as a golden goose thing. A lot of Polish types are over here as they have the manufactuing skills taught at school that we need that our curriculum doesn't cover.

 

[EalingBlue2]

In which case the reliant people returning to the UK will have had resources freed up for them by the return of EU citizens that aren't contributing.

It all depends who is running the hen house on both sides and where the respective people want to return to etc.

 

[CityStu]

I'll see if I can find them, Im sure i've seen ones broken down, and im not sure I believe the whole Eastern bloc seeing the UK as a golden goose thing. A lot of Polish types are over here as they have the manufactuing skills taught at school that we need that our curriculum doesn't cover.

I didn't say that the whole Eastern bloc was here to sponge, just that that was probably the aim of many. Actually, aim might be harsh - I'm sure a lot are good workers but can only get seasonal work and are overall net beneficiaries.

On top of that, there are undoubtedly skilled and semi-skilled professionals that do contribute and they aren't my concern.

 

[foxy]

The BBC and pro EU press have turned this referendum in to a tory leadership competition between Bojo and DCam which it isn’t. Probably no wonder, considering the BBC is EU funded, not sure why they never bother to point out the amount of funding they receive, would probably explain to a lot of viewers why they have an agenda on this issue.

 

[CityStu]

It all depends who is running the hen house on both sides and where the respective people want to return to etc.

Fair enough. My overriding point is that any actions taken can be reciprocated. If Europe wants to send our net takers back then we will be well within our rights to send theirs back. If they want to send our net givers back as well then more fool them.

In short, I don't see it as an issue and I don't believe it's a point that either side should base their arguments on (Out sending back the sponges and In worrying about ex pats).

 

[blueinsa]

The BBC and pro EU press have turned this referendum in to a tory leadership competition between Bojo and DCam which it isn’t. Probably no wonder, considering the BBC is EU funded, not sure why they never bother to point out the amount of funding they receive, would probably explain to a lot of viewers why they have an agenda on this issue.

It is essentially a leadership contest though and both Dave and Boris know it.

 

[worsleyweb]

It is essentially a leadership contest though and both Dave and Boris know it.

Only one winner in that.

 

[blueinsa]

Only one winner in that.

Dave loses this vote and he position is untenable. As a leader you can't be defeated on such a huge issue, especially when a lot of his party are only supporting him right now out of party loyalty and secretly want out.

It's going to be fascinating watching it all unfold.

 

[grunge]

Again not fact checked but a graph showing what the UK Export, A lot of it is very easy to move abroad if companies decide its better for them to do so, not suggesting they would if we did leave, just placing here for info.

 

[grunge]

Oh the irony, the key donor to the Vote to leave campaign has put out a warning to his investors that the profits of his business will be hit by exiting.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/06/brexit-chief-firm-quit-risks

 

[BigJoe#1]

My questions to Europhiles is:

Why are there hundreds and thousands of people camping in Calais to come to this country? and

Why are there now hundreds of people, at least a thousand a month going to Zeebrugge to try and board ferries illegally to come to the uk? and

Why are the huge majority of these people in Zeebrugge young single Iraqi men?

What is the attraction here that doesn't exist in France or Germany or Spain or Italy? After all we are as one in the EU aren't we?

I recognise that leaving the EU will not remove or eliminate this problem but, any of these type of economic migrants that gets a European passport will automatically qualify to come to Britain and once here, they're here to stay or talents they're very difficult to find and then remove.

If the fact that Europeans have no more rights in this country than do Australians, Americans, Canadians and Chinese and Africans then part of an objective will behave been met that being security. No one is saying people are not welcome as visitors, or indeed as workers if they they have the requisite skills and offe us something.

On the topic of security. Our security has very little to do with the fact that we can sell goods in Europe. We don't offer, share security issues with the EU and all other other states it would be far from secure if we did. Our security comes from NATO and bilateral deals with other individual countries... so why would that change if we were out of the EU?

Apparently there is an organisation, nothing to with the EU that governs and supports our security issues...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

There are numerous other benefits to be had in leaving the EU including economic, global trade, growth and self governance to name but a few.