NanaToure42
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If Pep had won the last 2 CL, and we were in the knockout stage of the 3rd year would we be looking for a new manager though?
Well done boss
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Kazzydeyna
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We are 3 games away from winning the champs league this season. Not saying it will happen, but nobody can say with any certainty that it won't happen either.
If we win it, and some posters on here wil be hoping we do, Peller's record in 3 years would read:
- 1x title, 2x league cups, and 1x champs league.
Yet if you read this thread and countless others it seems the majority of our internet fan base reckon Pellers is "shit", "a fucking corpse", "Audrey fucking Roberts" etc.
If that is his record I'd say he had been a truly world class manager. If his record is as above minus the 1x champs league I would downgrade it to first class manager.
Guardiola is going to have to do something truly spectacular to even equal Pellers record here,never mind beat it.
I honestly hope and prey he does, it would be amazing. It would also be great fun seeing the new breed of "pep is shit" posters spin it into a failure.(we all know they would appear the minute pep wins a title - they did it with. Pellers instantly after the title win) Because as sure as eggs is eggs they will. They absolutely will.
Shaelumstash
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I see your point, but I disagree with it.
We seem to agree that Avram Grant is a lousy manager. Yet Chelsea got to a Champions League final under him. So, did they achieve that success in spite of, or because of the manager? My view is in spite of.
City won the league in 2014 with by far the best squad of players. Was that because of the manager or in spite of? I'd say it's harsh to say in spite of, but it's a bit of a stretch to say because of. Yes he played a part, but I personally think it was a lot more down to the quality of the players.
We've still probably had the most talented squad of players over the last two seasons. We've grossly underachieved in the league in that period. Is that in spite of or because of the manager? My view is because of.
I don't think this group of players needs the very best manager to manage them. I just think it needs a competent manager that won't fuck it up so regularly.
I don't think Carlo Ancelotti, Jurgen Klopp, Rafa Benitez, Maricio Pochetino, Unai Emery, Diego Simeone, Roberto Mancini, Ronald Koeman, Antonio Conte or Massimo Allegri would continually pick Fabian Delph at left wing.
I don't think any of them would consistently select Yaya Toure and Fernando in a two man midfield after it has proven to be so disasterous in the past.
I don't think any of them would continue to pick Wilfried Bony ahead of Iheanacho in circumstances where we need a goal and an effective partner for Aguero.
I don't think any of them would have selected Martin DeMichelis 9 times this year and lost 7 of those games.
I don't think any of them would select Joleon Lescott, Javi Garcia or Matija Nastasic at centre back and ask them to squeeze up to the half way line.
I don't think any of them would select a two man central midfield of James Milner and Fernando against the Barcelona team that is considered the best taam of all time.
I don't think any of them would consistently select Edin Dzeko and Alvaro Negredo as a strike partnership.
I don't think any of them would play 442 against a Bayern Munich team that went 3-0 up essentially playing 8 men in midfield.
None of those managers are the best in the world, but they are all competent. None of them would consistently make decisions that have been a hinderance to a team as much as Pellegrini has.
Avram Grant was a nothing as Chelsea manager, an irrelevance. Pellegrini at City has actually been a hinderance in my view, and made the collection of players worse than the sum of their parts.
He's a nice guy and I wish him nothing but the best. But my view is that he's taken us backwards at an alarming rate and although he's had some problems to deal with, I hold him ultimately responsible.
FanchesterCity
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The win percentage only shows how the team is doing, not how people feel about him as manager.
It's fine lines in football, 3 games the right way in CL and his achievements will forever look impressive in the history books, not to mention forever forged in the hearts of fans for winning CL.
But if he doesn't win it, and we slip out of the top 4, his 1 PL and 2 LC's will be end up being overshadowed by dropping out of CL and he'll then be blamed for screwing up the Guardiola 3 year plan.
In 20 years time, it will look different again, but dropping out of top 4 without winning CL will sour the relationship badly. It's that old case of 'only as good as your last project' thing...
Shaelumstash
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I wasn't sure what the definition of Caretaker Manager was. You suggested it was someone who knew they would eventually be replaced by someone else. I assumed it meant someone who was a temporary appointment. So I looked it up.
It turns out the English definition of a Caretaker Manager is a temporary appointment. So whether you're interested in the dictionary or not, that's what Caretaker means; temporary.
Pellegrini has been in the job for 3 years. Over double the average length of a manager in England. So he's definitely not been tenporary.
He's faced some very difficult circumstances yes, and you've pointed many of them out. I agree with you on pretty much every one, he has faced some very difficult circumstances. But has he been a Caretaker? According to the definition, no he hasn't.
I assume his remit for this year has been to challenge for the league. If so, he's fallen woefully short. If his remit was to challenge for top 4, keep players happy and act dignified I guess you could argue he's right on track. But my assumption is that he's fallen well short of the target set for the league.
Again, I don't think this squad needs the best manager in the world to do better than it is now. It just needs a manager that is more competent that Pellegrini. I listed about 10 of those in my earlier post. There's at least half a dozen, possibly more, currently in the Premier League that would do a better job with these players than Pellegrini.
There are a fair few problems at the club and seemingly we agree on most of them. But regarding the manager, you think he's "very good" and I think he's the biggest problem of all, so we'll likely never agree on it.
BillyShears
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He wasn't eventually to be replaced, that's the difference. His replacement and his duration was predetermined. He was in charge till Guardiola was available. So the very definition of temporary.
As I asked another poster, if he wasn't temporary and he's done so many things wrong, why has he not been sacked?
It's easy, you know why, I know why. He's not been sacked because doing well, he has not been sacked because he was sacked before he started... The club want Pep as manager, not Pellegrini, not Mourinho not Mancini. Pep.
Pellegrini has always been a very good manager.
You said yourself Txiki has seen a squad go stale. He's done it again.
The treading water experiment is unique.
To me it's a disaster not waiting to happen.
I'm not untested in what other managers would do. They are totally irrelevant.
Unless you can give me an example of any of them taking a job where their replacement has already been found.
Bill
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had I have taken over from Mancini I would have won more than MP. any manager would. I know one thing we wouldn't be scratting for fucking 4th.
mosssideblue
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No one is saying he couldn't have done better but really
He will be gone soon and then those that want to can reset and start again with Pep out threads in due course
Bill
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Bill
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if LVG had this squad he'd piss the league.
Again you're talking pure hypotheticals.
Avram Grant did very well. Mourinho was failing that season with those players.
Avram Grant did what Mourinho wasn't.
I could give you countless examples of any of those managers making mistakes.
Can you give me any examples of them working under the conditions Pellegrini has?
Benitez is the closest. He took a job at Madrid, not because they wanted him but because there was no one else. He was gone the moment someone better was available. He knew it, the players knew it.nthe board signed his players. He was effectively a caretaker. As I say he knew it, the players knew it. When he tried to do things his way, the players bombed him out. Why? Because everyone knew he wasn't there for the long term.
Would Klopp take a job as a stop gap? No. If he did would he want to work with players who didn't suit his system? No. Would the board make wholesale changes based on the desire of a manager with no future? No.
Everyone of the those managers mentioned shows the ridiculous situation Pellegrini is in. They would all want their own players, they would all want their own system. Do you think Txiki would want Simeone turning us into dogs of war? No. He'd want Simeone to build for Guardiola.
In our current situation, Klopp couldn't be Klopp, Simeone couldn't be Simeone. So why do you think Pellegrini can be Pellegrini?
Pellegrini has played Delph left wing for a total of about 130 minutes when three other alternatives were unavailable.
This is all totally irrelevant as I'm happy to conced he makes mistake.
I think he's working in ridiculous circumstances. Bony over Iheanacho is a perfect example.
Pellegrini has a statue and a street named after him in Malaga. He's a legend in Villareal. Do you think he'd have reached that status if he made decisions like that? Such obviously wrong decisions.
The problem you have, the problem we have, we have no idea who's doing what at City.
You are guessing it's Pellegrini's idea to play Bony, I'm guessing it's for non football reasons.
We are both guessing, but my guess, if a sacked manager was going against the wishes of his boss, jeapordising City's future, risking CL qualification then someone should do something about it, no?
What we do know, it's impissible to sack someone twice and Pellegrinini has gone on record saying Iheanacho is the one player he'd like to take with him.
To me, the Bony issues sums it up perfectly. It's clear evidence Pellegrini is not in full control. If it were his decision, it's clear incompetence, why has he not been sacked with immediate effect? Because it's not his solely his decision.
Are we to believe Txiki will allow Pellegrini's stubborn incompetence to ruin next season?
If so, Txiki is as incompetent if not more so than the boss.
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Is his squad better than Leicester's and Spurs? Should by your logic he not be way ahead of them? Pellegrini, Mourinho, Wenger and in fairness Poch should all piss all over Leicester.
mouringo, Wenger and Poch all got to build the squad they wanted. Sadly our manager has never had that opportunity so we'll never know what he could have done.
Fingers crossed Pep will make the forgotten years worth while.
BillyShears
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The way he's done the last two seasons with that expensively assembled United squad. Haha. Put your fishing rod away. See you next week.
Hahahahaha! Bless your cotton socks. Bill hates him and thinks he's useless but instead of going on one of your funny little rants like you do with everyone else it's "ooh, naughty Bill, see you next week"
You just forgot to add a couple of kisses at the end.
Haha, good one.
Angel Di Maria
Morgan Schneiderlin
Anthony Martial
Daley Blind
Marcos Rojo
...and more I can't recall
2 seasons, and he's still trying to implement his "philosophy".
BillyShears
Well-Known Member
It was a speculative story a while back. Nothing concrete. Agree some excellent posts by schfc6.
With regards Pellegrini. He is just the start of what we are being told is a cycle that will sustain us for years to come.
Sorriano and Txiki have made it clear they believe in such cycles as it avoids a post Ferguson type scenario at the Swap. I agree, it's most likely the way forward. It's modern and its progressive.
Pellegrini was employed to bridge the gap till Guardiola comes and hopefully puts real meat on the bones of this concept. I've disagreed with posters on here including @ Neville Kneville, what we all agree on, Pep is more than just a manager he's the final piece of the puzzle. He puts everything we've working towards including Pellegrini into action.
Gone are the days of Mancini and his hostile approach, a manager who wanted total controle. I was a Mancini fan, so not saying it's a good or a bad thing.
Pellegrini is the stepping stone, the bridge to Guardiola, he wasn't available so we went for Pellegrini. My bet Txiki and Sorriano knew they could work with Manuel. They knew he would do a decent job. Wouldn't throw his toys out of the pram if he didn't get his way. My belief, he was brought in to be or do just as he has.
I my opinion he's almost worked along side Txiki in building for Guardiola. Both Manuel and Txiki making mistakes.
What's the bigger mistake? Delph playing left wing for an hour in an emergency or offering Kolarov a big contract extension?
Txiki has made mistakes off field Manuel on field but they are both working in a unique environment especially in England.
Arguably we could have got a more astute manager no doubt. But would managers like @shealumstash suggested be prepared to work under such circumstances? Not for me.
He takes stick from the fans, from the media. I think it's telling that in his three years, players past and present have had nothing but good things to say. Even the fucktard that is Seluk has spared the boss.
Is this because he's a nice man? Partly.
I would also wager it's becuase those involved inside the club know what his role actually is.
Sadly, and I agree he should or could have done much better on the pitch. But I think that's just part of his role.
If we wanted to see the best of him, then he should have been given cartblanche. No one could argue he has been.
His time at City for me has been selfless, he has taken a job with no long term future in order to help build for the future.
Transisition is a naff word in football, but I think we are in clear transition. Mancini under Marwood & Cook to Guardiola and Txiki is the very definition of transition.
We can see in the CL that Pellegrini is happy to sit deep and counter, we've seen he has a plan in some games, so why not others? City have been public in their admission we need to play a certain way. The way Pep likes to play.
For all we know Pellegrini would like to sit deep, be direct. He has shown he does favour this from time to time. So why does he revert in other means?
The club have been as vocal as Pellegrini about a 'style of play'.
This for me is the root of the current problem. Pellegrini and Txiki trying to work together for the good of the next manager. I imagine that's a difficult balance.
The club announced publiclly that we are aiming for a certain style. As has Pellegrini, so who's to blame? For me no one. It's a growth process. We are building, we are no where near finished. Pellegrini is a stepping stone, a building block. Just part of the transition.
Is he excused of all blame, no where near. Does he share blame? For me, yes. We know the club are working towards a bigger goal, Pellegrini is just one part of that.
While there are issues, Pellegrini's term will have had decent success and allow Pep to come in with only tweaks to make. The majority of the squad ready to play his way.
As I've put earlier, if all the issues we had were on Pellegrini he surely would be sat on a beach now. I think Pellegrini has worked as part of a team to allow for Pep to fit in seamlessly.
Sorriano and Txiki have made it clear they believe in such cycles as it avoids a post Ferguson type scenario at the Swap. I agree, it's most likely the way forward. It's modern and its progressive.
Pellegrini was employed to bridge the gap till Guardiola comes and hopefully puts real meat on the bones of this concept. I've disagreed with posters on here including @ Neville Kneville, what we all agree on, Pep is more than just a manager he's the final piece of the puzzle. He puts everything we've working towards including Pellegrini into action.
Gone are the days of Mancini and his hostile approach, a manager who wanted total controle. I was a Mancini fan, so not saying it's a good or a bad thing.
Pellegrini is the stepping stone, the bridge to Guardiola, he wasn't available so we went for Pellegrini. My bet Txiki and Sorriano knew they could work with Manuel. They knew he would do a decent job. Wouldn't throw his toys out of the pram if he didn't get his way. My belief, he was brought in to be or do just as he has.
I my opinion he's almost worked along side Txiki in building for Guardiola. Both Manuel and Txiki making mistakes.
What's the bigger mistake? Delph playing left wing for an hour in an emergency or offering Kolarov a big contract extension?
Txiki has made mistakes off field Manuel on field but they are both working in a unique environment especially in England.
Arguably we could have got a more astute manager no doubt. But would managers like @shealumstash suggested be prepared to work under such circumstances? Not for me.
He takes stick from the fans, from the media. I think it's telling that in his three years, players past and present have had nothing but good things to say. Even the fucktard that is Seluk has spared the boss.
Is this because he's a nice man? Partly.
I would also wager it's becuase those involved inside the club know what his role actually is.
Sadly, and I agree he should or could have done much better on the pitch. But I think that's just part of his role.
If we wanted to see the best of him, then he should have been given cartblanche. No one could argue he has been.
His time at City for me has been selfless, he has taken a job with no long term future in order to help build for the future.
Transisition is a naff word in football, but I think we are in clear transition. Mancini under Marwood & Cook to Guardiola and Txiki is the very definition of transition.
We can see in the CL that Pellegrini is happy to sit deep and counter, we've seen he has a plan in some games, so why not others? City have been public in their admission we need to play a certain way. The way Pep likes to play.
For all we know Pellegrini would like to sit deep, be direct. He has shown he does favour this from time to time. So why does he revert in other means?
The club have been as vocal as Pellegrini about a 'style of play'.
This for me is the root of the current problem. Pellegrini and Txiki trying to work together for the good of the next manager. I imagine that's a difficult balance.
The club announced publiclly that we are aiming for a certain style. As has Pellegrini, so who's to blame? For me no one. It's a growth process. We are building, we are no where near finished. Pellegrini is a stepping stone, a building block. Just part of the transition.
Is he excused of all blame, no where near. Does he share blame? For me, yes. We know the club are working towards a bigger goal, Pellegrini is just one part of that.
While there are issues, Pellegrini's term will have had decent success and allow Pep to come in with only tweaks to make. The majority of the squad ready to play his way.
As I've put earlier, if all the issues we had were on Pellegrini he surely would be sat on a beach now. I think Pellegrini has worked as part of a team to allow for Pep to fit in seamlessly.
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