EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%

  • Total voters
    1,050
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But arent these unskilled shirkers the ones getting free houses, cars and everything they want on a gold platter?
They not likely to be arsed hope much a house costs if they are given one, as the wise and the good on the right say.

It would be a good start to take stock of all the housing in the UK and just see what it is used for. Living in, storing, renting out, leaving vacant etc etc. then utilising what we have and going from there. We could get the Land registry to oversee this and as a government department, it would not take too much hassle, oh hang on, its being sold aint it.

I'm not sure how many on the right actually view them as shirkers or benefits tourists. It was certainly a convenient portrayal by Cameron so he could push for benefit restrictions instead of the real thing. And he still got shown his arse.

The issue for most outers is the speed of population growth and the pressure on infrastructure. Few have a problem with the individuals themselves. And I speak as a paid-up RWNJ.

We are in agreement that the existing housing stock is probably under-used, and quite possibly by a surprising amount.
 
Germany and Sweden will probably push for EU membership for Turkey once all the benefits of the recent mass immigrations to those countries kick in and become obvious to everyone.

If we stay in the EU we'll benefit too.
Chuckle, naughty, naughty.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ou-can-t-believe-either-of-them-a6999166.html

Lies, damn lies and statistics! Both sides are lying to us. Must admit, I'd never heard of the "Rotterdam Effect" before.
Thanks for posting this. It seems both sides of the debate have an issue withvfacts that don't support their agenda. The sad thing about this is that any real debate gets stifled. I'd challenge anyone on either side to read that and be as sure of their position afterwards (unless you are a tool of course).
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ou-can-t-believe-either-of-them-a6999166.html

Lies, damn lies and statistics! Both sides are lying to us. Must admit, I'd never heard of the "Rotterdam Effect" before.

Of course both sides will lie because they will skew the facts for their own means, there are actually no concrete facts available because no-one can predict the future. We will all have to decide on this by feeling and mostly feeling alone because there just are no facts until we know what will happen and we don't. Leave will say we are better off because of this and that. The stay in camp will also say the same but instead the other way around, no-one however can predict the future so any facts you will ever hear are not facts, they are predictions based upon data that works for that point of view. I'm sure any idiot could produce a set of data of why immigration works for us but someone else could produce another piece which says the opposite.

The actual fact is - If we were to leave it would take years to leave, it wouldn't happen overnight and in that time we won't go bankrupt, we will all still go to work and sell our goods or services to anyone who demands it no matter where they are. The company I work for trades across the world, not just the EU, I doubt we would care whether the country remains in the EU because it will NOT change the simple fact there is always going to be a demand for these services regardless. Leaving would take adaptation but that is what humans do best, people will find new markets where new demand opens up and there will be new jobs and opportunity whilst some areas equally will collapse, that isn't about the EU, it is life.

With a referendum looming you would think a multi national like ours would be all over the place on decision making but it isn't, there is actual zero mention of the EU within the company because no matter what, does it matter that much, we will trade whilst there is demand and that is not going to change just because we are no longer a member of a trading bloc. Some of our biggest partners are based in the EU and they are not going to cut the telephone wire just because we are suddenly not in some autocratic union with their parent country. No, instead they will demand the exact same as they always have, no-one in business could really care less apart from those who stand to lose out personally.

I am still undecided but I am leaning to leave simply because I don't believe the EU works for us anymore as people, we are a growing and large economy which just does not fit into an EU containing countries that are falling apart. I'm not one to pull the ladder up but now the EU is only working for the EU and accountability just does not exist, that is the only reason. I feel European but I don't feel a part of the so called democracy we see in Brussels, it is just another FIFA like organisation full of parasites. I would vote for a properly reformed EU membership but that isn't on the voting card.

Personally, I don't care about anything else, I think free movement is fantastic because it means we have millions of skilled people on our doorstep but still even if we left, we can give people visa's, it just isn't a problem. There is nothing on the leave or stay in agenda that really bothers me that much, I think we will be fine either way but the one option that presents more opportunity and democracy for a start is to leave. Staying means we have to accept the EU for what it is and what it will become and since I did not vote for the people who will decide that future, it doesn't sit well with me.

Anyway, no matter what nothing is going to change, we will all still be able to holiday in the EU, we will all still have jobs and life will go on like it always has. If anyone is really worrying about this vote I really wouldn't, just vote how you think and the day after you will continue with your life as normal. When you hear all the rubbish in the news and on TV just remember, the only people talking loudly about these things are the politicians and people who have the most to lose.
 
I think you get the point I was making about the polarisation of Europe - wealthier countries seem to be going far right re immigration and poorer countries far left re austerity implementation by Brussels (part of the governing coalition in Portugal is now made up by the communist party who were voted in on an anti eu mandate).

The EU project is wrong and needs to be dismantled and taken back on trade and security cooperation levels - this notion that the UK can effect things at the heart of Europe is just fanciful as they clearly want to create a federal entity and at any cost by the sounds of things but it will bring social unrest whether it be due to migration, enforced austerity or a continued erosion of national sovereign powers which will definitely happen with closer fiscal union as that is inevitable or the euro continues to struggle.

I very much doubt that the UK's position on the fringes with Denmark will come into their thinking at all. In my opinion the UK by getting out just gets a head start on the others but it will incur short term disruption to the economy - it's just a question of whether you want death by a thousand cuts or a jolly good kicking for a few years.

Given your location and occupation how do you think an 'out' result would affect you?
 
Or, as Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan recently proclaimed: "The European Union needs Turkey more than Turkey needs the European Union."

The European Union now finds itself in a classic Catch-22 situation. Large numbers of Muslim migrants will flow to Europe regardless of whether or not the EU approves the visa waiver.

Critics of visa liberalization fear that millions of Turkish nationals may end up migrating to Europe. Indeed, many analysts believe that President Erdogan views the visa waiver as an opportunity to "export" Turkey's "Kurdish Problem" to Germany.

Bavarian Finance Minister Markus Söder, for example, worries that due to Erdogan's persecution of Kurds in Turkey, millions may take advantage of the visa waver to flee to Germany. "We are importing an internal Turkish conflict," he warned, adding: "In the end, fewer migrants may arrive by boat, but more will arrive by airplane."

In an insightful essay, German analyst Andrew Hammel writes:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-24/turkey-blackmails-europe-visa-free-travel
 
Given your location and occupation how do you think an 'out' result would affect you?

It wouldn't effect me in the slightest in terms of access to local services etc All the Ukranians/Moldovans/Brazilians here have access to the same facilities and services as EU members by just simply registering at the town hall.

Work wise - buyers based in the UK have been cautious about buying due to the uncertainty but when you press them on what issues they're looking for clarity on should it be a brexit a lot of them don't know, they just feel it's potentially bad due to all the negative spin from the government.
 
Anyway, no matter what nothing is going to change, we will all still be able to holiday in the EU, we will all still have jobs and life will go on like it always has. If anyone is really worrying about this vote I really wouldn't, just vote how you think and the day after you will continue with your life as normal. When you hear all the rubbish in the news and on TV just remember, the only people talking loudly about these things are the politicians and people who have the most to lose.

Having started your post so well by saying "Of course both sides will lie because they will skew the facts for their own means, there are actually no concrete facts available because no-one can predict the future", you've then slipped into the very trap you warned about.

You have absolutely no way of knowing that no-one would lose their job, and worse, there's an extremely high likelihood that SOME people would lose their jobs. You can debate how many and how and whether new job opportunities would make up for it. But to suggest that irrespective of who you work for and what that company's outlook is, no-one would lose their job, is either naive in the extreme or disingenuous.
 
It wouldn't effect me in the slightest in terms of access to local services etc All the Ukranians/Moldovans/Brazilians here have access to the same facilities and services as EU members by just simply registering at the town hall.

Work wise - buyers based in the UK have been cautious about buying due to the uncertainty but when you press them on what issues they're looking for clarity on should it be a brexit a lot of them don't know, they just feel it's potentially bad due to all the negative spin from the government.

I'm thinking if Britain leaves maybe the remaining members might see their arses and decide to block Britains from getting any 'free' services
 
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