Hillsborough verdicts reached

[Hart of the Matter]

The bold, underlined bit is wrong. There is no evidence that too many people turned up, no ticketing problems or anything else of that ilk. Analysis of the video footage showed that the number in the affected area of the ground was completely consistent with the number of tickets sold in that area. The problem arose because:

• traffic issues delayed the arrival of many Liverpool fans
• the police failed to manage the approach to the Leppings Lane turnstiles (as they had the previous season)
• the turnstiles were inadequate for the numbers of people involved
• the police failed to manage the crowd inside the stadium meaning that even before the gate was opened, there were too many people in Pen 3
• having given the order to open the gate, they failed to direct the incoming crowd into the side pens.

Why it's taken so long is that, having given the order to open the gate, the match commander realised he had fucked up and told the FA secretary a lie, namely that fans had rushed the gate and forced it. From that moment there was a cover-up to protect the police and others involved in the tragedy, with the blame being laid at the door of the Liverpool fans. The original inquests were stage-managed with the help of West Midlands police officers in order to produce the "right" result. Successive governments have refused to re-open the matter, despite the Taylor Report highlighting many of the things that are now known. Eventually the government caved in (for which they should receive great credit) and established an independent review body which had full access to all relevant documentation. From that, it was clear that there had been a miscarriage of justice and so the original inquest verdicts were set aside and this new one started.

It's taken so long because of the establishment's insistence on burying the truth.

Great post. I am also sure that there is a link to how the police, following the miners strike, became detached from being a public police force. The issues are not with the individual officers, many of whom have suffered as a result of the tragedy and/ or the pressure put on them during the cover up that followed. But the attitudes, arrogance and incompetence of senior officials on the day followed by the widespread state corruption that followed are the nub of the issue. People in power, supported by media pointed the finger of blame at the victims. That is unforgivable.

 

[cibaman]

Yeah I'm glad they got justice too, should have been admitted and people punished for negligence ages ago... the thing is they make out everyone else has blamed them for 27 years. That's not true surely? I tried to make that point to disapproving looks but fell on def ears, we are guilted into feeling bad and paying attention to some things over and over when there's no need(far worse things have happened in that time that haven't nearly received as much attention)... hopefully they all get closure from this and maybe stop bringing it up as much, we don't need any more hour specials or 30minute long specials on 'Granada Tonight' we know they weren't to blame and we know it was tragic to lose loved ones in that way.

Also people keep going on about the police being punished, did some of them actually beat people to death or is it their general negligence again? I only ask because it's being worded in a certain way by some that makes it feel I genuinely might have missed something.

It would certainly seem that many police officers could face prosecution for perverting the course of justice, for the cover up afterwards.

As I understand it, the jury were told that to bring in a verdict of unlawful killing they had to decide that the actions of Duckenfield amounted to gross negiligence. Its been suggested to today that it might be difficult to prosecute him because of previous court cases. I don't know of any other police officers who are "in the frame" for their actions leading up to the disaster.

I've always thought the FA were the main culprits, for continuing to play semi finals at Hillsborough when they must have known there were very serious safety issues regarding the Leppings Lane stand. I don't know whether anyone at the FA could be prosecuted, although it has been reported that the CPS are investigating that possibility.

 

[shackattack]

a great summary by david conn who was rightly applauded by families yesterday

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-inquiry-anatomy-of-a-disaster-video?CMP=share_btn_fb

 

[maccadon]

Hi city fans, firstly well done tonight. Thought you played very well and shame you couldn't get a goal. Good luck in the second leg!!

Been looking round all the main forums from other clubs (this is because it hurts me and mine when people call us murderers) and had to register to thank you for your comments. You really have taken on board what happened and that it could have been you guys (god forbid)

Couple of you guys questioned why the fans at the back pushed. Simple answer is they didn't know they were crushing people at the front. We couldn't hear as the noise was so loud and they were in a hurry to get to the game and remember there wasn't delayed kick offs back then.

Anyway thank you for your support on this matter and believe me it matters to us that you rival fans understand we didn't want to hurt anyone.

Great day for the city of Liverpool and a fab eve for you city fans so good luck lads and lasses.

Smash them at their place!!

Thank you very much xxx

First n foremost were football fans any rivalry disappears when any club suffers(how many clubs have minute applause these days and in the main respected)

Glad of outcome yesterday and hope the criminal investigations that are ongoing bring justice too.

All the best and thanks for kind words about our team too.

 

[johnny on the spot]

Dan Walker's currently doing a very decent job fronting the BBC's coverage.

 

[johnny on the spot]

Jesus wept.

 

[squirtyflower]

FI posted yesterday that we wouldn't put up with any trolling in this thread
Thread bans and warnings were handed out like confetti because some posters really do not have a clue
Continue posting drivel and your post will be removed and you will be warned/banned

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Listening to Kelly Cates (who is Kenny Dalglish's daughter) on 5 Live this morning and she was talking about people who still don't accept that the behaviour of the fans wasn't the cause of this.

She said she used to patiently reason with them to get them to see the error of their ways but given the overwhelming weight of each evidence showing what really happened in the day she now doesn't bother as they're clearly either wilfully ignorant or being deliberately stupid (her words).

She said "It's like someone who still believes the earth is flat. There's simply no point in arguing with them."

Yes we know what things were like in those days but there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that, apart from the natural actions of a large crowd which the police failed to control and which was trying to get involved the ground fearing they would miss the start of the game, there was no hint of any hooliganism at the time.

These were myths and lies fed to the media by SYP and the Police Federation in order to protect their own officers from what can now be clearly seen was criminal negligence.

The other thing is that this has nothing to do with Heysel, where there was no official cover-up and for which people (Liverpool fans included) were prosecuted and found guilty. The mistakes made up to and on the day were also clearly highlighted.

As FI and squirtyflower have made clear, any references to either the lies about fan behaviour or Heysel will not be tolerated.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Hi city fans, firstly well done tonight. Thought you played very well and shame you couldn't get a goal. Good luck in the second leg!!

Been looking round all the main forums from other clubs (this is because it hurts me and mine when people call us murderers) and had to register to thank you for your comments. You really have taken on board what happened and that it could have been you guys (god forbid)

Couple of you guys questioned why the fans at the back pushed. Simple answer is they didn't know they were crushing people at the front. We couldn't hear as the noise was so loud and they were in a hurry to get to the game and remember there wasn't delayed kick offs back then.

Anyway thank you for your support on this matter and believe me it matters to us that you rival fans understand we didn't want to hurt anyone.

Great day for the city of Liverpool and a fab eve for you city fans so good luck lads and lasses.

Smash them at their place!!

Thank you very much xxx

The sort of post that puts football into perspective and takes us back form our tribal attachments to the wider picture of what is really important.
Thanks

 

[Dubai Blue]

I do hope that along with all the criminal investigations that are now going to be raised into Hillsborough, similar activities will happen with Heysel.

Does my head in when people try to suggest some kind of link between Heysel and Hillsborough. And there have already been criminal investigations into the events that took place at Heysel, with a number of people found guilty of manslaughter. So what else is it that you want to happen?

Edit: Just seen PB's post on this matter. Well said!