Well done boss

[schfc6]

I'm sorry, but Txiki saying we want to play attacking football is different to him influencing what Manuel does in the way I assume you mean it.

If Txiki was to say to Manuel 'Play this player', 'Use this formation' I could understand your point but using 'We want to play attacking football' as evidence of undue influence being applied by Txiki is a bit of a stretch even for you to seriously believe.

Txiki is our DoF and as such it's his job to coordinate player recruitment and apply a playing philosophy on the club, how far this has been done in respect to influencing Manuel is where I think you've got this all wrong imo.

Like I said, show me where Barca ever played 442.........

I can show you countless times Bayern have played 442. A lot more obvious and a lot more traditional than ours.

Pellegrini has shown his preference for a much deeper line, a much more counter attacking style in big games. This is not the attacking way Txiki outlines. I don't think the mantra from the very top is to sit back and play on the break.npersonally I believe it's to dominate possession and always be on the front foot. Just like Barcelona and Bayern.

Txiki's fondness of attacking football may well be at odds with how Pellegrini thinks it's best to get the job done.

That aside. I'm very excited to see what Pep will bring and hopefully he'll add or we'll add the required midfielders.

There are however unequivical similarities between Pep and Manuel.

Posters on here like karen7 can't wait for him to sort the defence. Sort Mangala and Otamendi out. I'm guessing she's never heard of Benatia. He's regressed so badly Guardiola had to leave him out of a CL semi in favour of two centre mids.
Neville Kneville can't wait for him to introduce youth. He's not done much of that for Bayern.
Some posters can't wait for an end of YA YA in a two. Pep has regularly played Alonso in a two. Teams like us, Porto, Benfica, Juventus scoring freely against them.
He's also a big fan of square pegs in round holes.

They're right to be optimistic, but all is not perfect with Pep, he has flaws, frustrating flaws. Just ask the Bayern fans. Read a Munchen forum today.

I can't wait for him to get here. He'll get my full support and I'm excited to see what he brings.

Some of the bluemoaners though need to realise he's not perfect and they'll be on his case quickly.
Some are already questioning him on the Hart thread.

99% of us are in agreement, Pep will be far better than Manuel. But he will need time and he's by no means flawless.

 

[schfc6]

This might be better suited in another thread but watching Bayern last night made me think that if we had played like that with Pellers in charge then he would be getting a right Royal roasting from lots of people today.

They were one dimensional - had possession without doing much with it and seemed unable to change approach through the game to any effect....and playing against a side that had pretty much a 442.

I'm delighted we are getting Pep but think we need to be more realistic that imagining, as some do, that he has a magic alchemy that miraculously transforms sides within a game.

I agree, had Manuel left Alonso out to dry like that, he'd have been slated.
Had he expected Thaigo to compete physically with Atleti Hed have been slated.
Had he not found a place for our best player, our most influential player, he'd have been slated.
Had he resorted to a basic 442 he'd have been slated.

Other fans are by no means wrong when they say Bayern dominated the game, created the better chances. I don't remeber Obilak making a save Carlo Nash wouldn't though.

What happen with regards the structure of the game after Atleti's goal is largely irrelevant. They had what they wanted. Atleti were happy like that and were millimetres from making it two.
Second leg will be much the same with Atleti confident of nicking one on the break. See Barcelona last round.

Pep arguably played into their hands. Fell into their trap. He's been totally outclassed in his previous two semis with Bayern. I might be wrong but i think he was in charge of Barcelona when Chelsea played just like Atleti last night. Why is he not learning?

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

There's a lot of lies told about Pellegrini and a lot of mischaracterisations on this forum - but possibly the worst and the one which shines a light on some of the most ignorant people on this forum, is the notion that he's is a tactical dinosaur.

I think it’s more black and white than that.


Like him or loathe him, I suspect that Pellegrini’s entire period, will be judged by the next couple of results.

Beat Southampton and Madrid, and he’ll be the demigod who took City to a Champions League Final, before waving his last charming man goodbye

Lose to Southampton and Madrid, and he’ll be the clown who won the league with Mancini’s team, before overseeing an embarrassing regression, that resulted in City playing Europa League football.

Of course, the truth will be in the middle, but that’s not how football works.

 

[BillyShears]

I think it’s more black and white than that.


Like him or loathe him, I suspect that Pellegrini’s entire period, will be judged by the next couple of results.

Beat Southampton and Madrid, and he’ll be the demigod who took City to a Champions League Final, before waving his last charming man goodbye

Lose to Southampton and Madrid, and he’ll be the clown who won the league with Mancini’s team, before overseeing an embarrassing regression, that resulted in City playing Europa League football.

Of course, the truth will be in the middle, but that’s not how football works.

Yeah I think that's fair. People do tend to view these things in total black and white. However my point remains that when it comes to the specific things that Pellegrini is criticised for, the laziest and most ignorant is that he's a tactical dinosaur. And you know what - it's comment that is made more often than not to belittle his age as much as his actual abilities as a coach or a tactician.

As @Bayblue posted a few pages back. Had Pellegrini's side performed like Pep's did last night, and had Pellegrini made the tactical and selection decisions that Pep did there would be absolute uproar on here and it'd be considered more proof that Pellegrini is tactically naive.

Personally I think we're getting past Madrid. Going to be interesting to see how the narrative around Pellegrini develops on Bluemoon if we do (and beat Southampton too although that isn't so important - Leicester aren't going to lose to United).

 

[Dribble]

I can show you countless times Bayern have played 442. A lot more obvious and a lot more traditional than ours.

Pellegrini has shown his preference for a much deeper line, a much more counter attacking style in big games. This is not the attacking way Txiki outlines. I don't think the mantra from the very top is to sit back and play on the break.npersonally I believe it's to dominate possession and always be on the front foot. Just like Barcelona and Bayern.

Txiki's fondness of attacking football may well be at odds with how Pellegrini thinks it's best to get the job done.

That aside. I'm very excited to see what Pep will bring and hopefully he'll add or we'll add the required midfielders.

There are however unequivical similarities between Pep and Manuel.

Posters on here like karen7 can't wait for him to sort the defence. Sort Mangala and Otamendi out. I'm guessing she's never heard of Benatia. He's regressed so badly Guardiola had to leave him out of a CL semi in favour of two centre mids.
Neville Kneville can't wait for him to introduce youth. He's not done much of that for Bayern.
Some posters can't wait for an end of YA YA in a two. Pep has regularly played Alonso in a two. Teams like us, Porto, Benfica, Juventus scoring freely against them.
He's also a big fan of square pegs in round holes.

I can't wait for him to get here. He'll get my full support and I'm excited to see what he brings.

Some of the bluemoaners though need to realise he's not perfect and they'll be on his case quickly.
Some are already questioning him on the Hart thread.

99% of us are in agreement, Pep will be far better than Manuel. But he will need time and he's by no means flawless.

Very interesting, but I wasn't talking about Pep I was responding to your assertions that Txiki influences what Manuel does. Pep is by no means perfect, but as it stands he manages another club and what they do is their business its what we do now with Manuel in charge that I'm arsed about.

As I said there is a major difference between our club having an attacking ethos and Txiki directly influencing what Manuel does on match days as you seem to be alluding to. Are you trying to say without Txiki's 'influence' that Manuel would be playing a more controlled conservative style of football and the reckless style of football we've seen all too often is down to Txiki's influence on Manuel and not Manuel himself?

 

[Kazzydeyna]

If Manuel wins the champions league this year he will be widely and correctly regarded as one of the best managers in the world.

If pep is outsmarted in a champs lge semi final again he will look like a good manager who won it all with a once in ten generations group of players at Barca.

Sane minds will then surely have to question why we are swapping one for the other.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

A couple of mighty "If's", but I'd love to test your theory.

 

[PabZab'sChipMuffin]

If Manuel wins the champions league this year he will be widely and correctly regarded as one of the best managers in the world.

If pep is outsmarted in a champs lge semi final again he will look like a good manager who won it all with a once in ten generations group of players at Barca.

Sane minds will then surely have to question why we are swapping one for the other.

No Di Matteo is one of the best managers in the world? That's how it works right?
I'm not trying to slate Pellers btw but come on.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

A couple of mighty "If's", but I'd love to test your theory.

I agree about the "ifs" but just they fact we can type "if we win it" in late April after the first leg shows how far we have come under Manuel.

I get the impression there are posters on here hoping and hoping it DOESNT happen (not you by the way)

 

[Lancet Fluke]

I agree about the "ifs" but just they fact we can type "if we win it" in late April after the first leg shows how far we have come under Manuel.

I get the impression there are posters on here hoping and hoping it DOESNT happen (not you by the way)

That's quite an accusation. How widespread do you feel the problem of City fans actively hoping we don't win the Champions League this season is?

 

[schfc6]

Very interesting, but I wasn't talking about Pep I was responding to your assertions that Txiki influences what Manuel does. Pep is by no means perfect, but as it stands he manages another club and what they do is their business its what we do now with Manuel in charge that I'm arsed about.

As I said there is a major difference between our club having an attacking ethos and Txiki directly influencing what Manuel does on match days as you seem to be alluding to. Are you trying to say without Txiki's 'influence' that Manuel would be playing a more controlled conservative style of football and the reckless style of football we've seen all too often is down to Txiki's influence on Manuel and not Manuel himself?

No, this is my point. I think the football we often see is due to our unbalanced squad. Our squad is heavy with technically gifted but physically limited players and is down to a combination of the two. An idea from the top being implemented by someone who fancies another way. Meeting somewhere in the middle.

Pellegrini has shown he knows how to get things done. He's demonstrated he's not quite the tactical dinosaur some would believe.

For me, Pellegrini has instructions from the top and he's trying to balance his own ideas with those of his employers and we're getting something in the middle. A team capable of being a flat track bully. A team also capable of a very solid defence. Sadly we've rarely seen the two combined.

The notion I'm suggesting is hardly novel. It's cost Chelsea several managers their job.

I believe there is a instruction from above to play football the right way, always look to score and dominate possession. I believe Pellegrini is under pressure to deliver this.
I don't believe we have the squad good enough to do this.
I think Pellegrini is doing his upmost to forefil the club's philosophy(excuse the word) but it's not always the best way to win.

If indeed you are right, if Pellegrini does want yo play 442, why the fuck have we only got two senior strikers? That is a total contradiction. If Pellegrini wants to play 442 he hasn't got the squad. Why not? So that to me is clear evidence of Txiki influencing the squad. Influencing the manager.
If Txiki wants to load the midfield, keep possession he's not signing the right players. Sterling & De Bruyne can be criminally liberal with the ball. FERNANDO and Delph limited on the ball.

So, if Pellegrini wants to play 442, why have we only got two senior strikers?
If he wants to play 2 in midfield, why have we got just one player suited to it?
If Txiki wants us to play a 433 high press possession based game, why have we just spent £54 million on a traditional number 10 who's liberal in possession and average at best when it comes to pressing?

For me the answer is obvious, between the two, Txiki and Pellegrini are trying to find a common ground. It's not ideal for either.

 

[BobKowalski]

I think it’s more black and white than that.


Like him or loathe him, I suspect that Pellegrini’s entire period, will be judged by the next couple of results.

Beat Southampton and Madrid, and he’ll be the demigod who took City to a Champions League Final, before waving his last charming man goodbye

Lose to Southampton and Madrid, and he’ll be the clown who won the league with Mancini’s team, before overseeing an embarrassing regression, that resulted in City playing Europa League football.

Of course, the truth will be in the middle, but that’s not how football works.

Agree these last few games will define Pellers stint with us and the narrative for either scenario is pretty much set in stone and the narrative will either oversell or undersell what he has achieved at City. Let's just hope we end up 'overselling' and celebrating demigod status in May.

 

[DJBusinesscake]

Pellers will be someone I look back on and think how great we were in his first season, il think about this champions league campaign and all the trophies hes given us. Last season will be forgotten, and he we will become a legend in my mind.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I'm gutted to discover that DeBruyne won't be able to play in any of Pep's formations & was signed by Txiki on a whim.

Here was me thinking he'd be a star.

 

[Keepingthefaithsince1976]

Yeah I think that's fair. People do tend to view these things in total black and white. However my point remains that when it comes to the specific things that Pellegrini is criticised for, the laziest and most ignorant is that he's a tactical dinosaur. And you know what - it's comment that is made more often than not to belittle his age as much as his actual abilities as a coach or a tactician.

As @Bayblue posted a few pages back. Had Pellegrini's side performed like Pep's did last night, and had Pellegrini made the tactical and selection decisions that Pep did there would be absolute uproar on here and it'd be considered more proof that Pellegrini is tactically naive.

Personally I think we're getting past Madrid. Going to be interesting to see how the narrative around Pellegrini develops on Bluemoon if we do (and beat Southampton too although that isn't so important - Leicester aren't going to lose to United).

I totally agree with you. Why people can't see that with age comes knowledge i don't know. He's wise & pretty funny sometimes. Maybe some of his haters on here are girls who just want to look at a younger model. Fair enough.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I totally agree with you. Why people can't see that with age comes knowledge i don't know. He's wise & pretty funny sometimes. Maybe some of his haters on here are girls who just want to look at a younger model. Fair enough.

I'd be interested for you both to take that argument further & explain for us who don't understand, how Pellegrini's tactics have evolved & how Pep's tactics v Atletico were to blame for last night's result.

But let's face it.

It's not going to happen from either of you is it ?

 

[robbieh]

If Manuel wins the champions league this year he will be widely and correctly regarded as one of the best managers in the world.

If pep is outsmarted in a champs lge semi final again he will look like a good manager who won it all with a once in ten generations group of players at Barca.

Sane minds will then surely have to question why we are swapping one for the other.

Whatever happens in the coming weeks most of us have seen enough to realize that Pellegrini is goodish but not top quality. Whether Guardiola drops from exalted heights into that goodish category remains to be seen. City with a far less able squad than Bayern will be a test for him for sure.

But the real question is would we want to be managed by a Simeone or a Mourinho? Both have shown extraordinary ability to get inferior players performing out of their skins to beat the likes of Barca and Madrid in the past. But having to watch them every week? No thanks.

 

[schfc6]

I'm gutted to discover that DeBruyne won't be able to play in any of Pep's formations & was signed by Txiki on a whim.

Here was me thinking he'd be a star.

So he was signed by Txiki? Cheers. I've even got you agreeing with me.

 

[OB1]

Whatever happens in the coming weeks most of us have seen enough to realize that Pellegrini is goodish but not top quality. Whether Guardiola drops from exalted heights into that goodish category remains to be seen. City with a far less able squad than Bayern will be a test for him for sure.

But the real question is would we want to be managed by a Simeone or a Mourinho? Both have shown extraordinary ability to get inferior players performing out of their skins to beat the likes of Barca and Madrid in the past. But having to watch them every week? No thanks.

Will Pep have a far less able squad at City than he has at Bayern?

 

[robbieh]

Will Pep have a far less able squad at City than he has at Bayern?

I see what you mean. At the moment I think they have better players but come the beginning of next season that may all have changed.