John Stones

[kevin horlocks wand]

Sorry, but sticking one of the players you mentioned in a team trying to play possession football would be an absolute disaster. They can only play on the edge of their box, we need our defenders to be capable of playing high up the field. Being a "leader" isn't worth much if you cripple the team with you inability to play the way the rest of the team does

The key word is "like".....

It must be possible to find someone who can control our line and be a good footballer and organiser to sort out our defending and attacking on our set pieces with a budget of 40m. I just cannot believe that person happens to be John stones. We need to cast our net wider.

To be honest though you do make a fair point on the high point issue which pep loves as well. However this is the same high line we have been caught on by indiscipline playing offside this season. We do need to get this right next season as we will be paying a high line as you state. Some organisation will be needed.

 

[Dax777]

Then play Nasri and Silva back there.

World class defenders can defend and pass and we absolutely should be looking for them. We currently have two centre halves (Mangala and Otta) who are OK defensively, one is OK with the ball at his feet. I don't see the point in changing one who can't pass for one who can't defend.

1. HW can defend.
2. He can pass
3. He commits errors. Kinda like the 4 we currently have, but he is better on the ball than all 4. So I do t get the objections? We have 4 error prone defenders, with passi skills that rank from okay to poor. But we are objecting to getting a defender who will help is keep the ball better and reduce the number of occasions we'd be in a situation to commit errors, but folks here are balking? I'm confused.

 

[bluesince76]

1. HW can defend.
2. He can pass
3. He commits errors. Kinda like the 4 we currently have, but he is better on the ball than all 4. So I do t get the objections? We have 4 error prone defenders, with passi skills that rank from okay to poor. But we are objecting to getting a defender who will help is keep the ball better and reduce the number of occasions we'd be in a situation to commit errors, but folks here are balking? I'm confused.

I read all that as he's possibly a bit better than the players we have. £50m for someone a bit better.

And I'm not objecting to a player who'll keep the ball better, I'm objecting to £50m on a player who'll struggle to get it in the first place.

As I've said before, if he was foreign, there would be no hype and the media would probably be complaining about them buying him rather than giving local talent a try. So a bit like Barkley

 

[blueincy]

Jason Denayer?

 

[Dax777]

I read all that as he's possibly a bit better than the players we have. £50m for someone a bit better.

And I'm not objecting to a player who'll keep the ball better, I'm objecting to £50m on a player who'll struggle to get it in the first place.

As I've said before, if he was foreign, there would be no hype and the media would probably be complaining about them buying him rather than giving local talent a try. So a bit like Barkley

I get that. But he is English. And that has an extra tax. Talent wise, he is very good. Makes mistakes, yes. Good? Absolutely.

The mistake everyone keeps making is that they think football is static. It isn't. Some players are just far better in certain systems than they are in others. Stones just plays and looks like a player who'd be far better in a possession based team.

Pep's teams have historically been possession heavy. Robert Huth and Wes Morgan have done well and ate about to win a league title. But both will suck in our system and Mangala will be player of the season if he played for them.

Every time I've watched Stones, bar the Liverpool game, his been very good. Both defensively and on the ball. Yes he makes errors, bit I'm not too bothered. Some are a function of being young ( I can deal with that, he'll grow), some are due to trying too hard to play possession football on a non possesion team ( that actually excites me, as he is honing his skills already).

I sincerely doubt he'd find himself in similar quandaries that often on a Pep team. And I'm certain his ball skills will help keep possession longer and reduce the number of such situations all together.

I repeat, if he and Laporte come in, they'll both become the starting pair before season's end, and latest by start of the 17-18 season. They both fit the Pep style like a glove.

And that is really what it is about. Fit. Stones is a great fit for what we currently do, and whatvwe intend to do better under Pep.

 

[TonyM]

Please God no. I don't want another English player. The current generation are crap. All of them.

The only good English players out there are in academies. Sign or promote them instead.

 

[super_city_si]

Please God no. I don't want another English player. The current generation are crap. All of them.

The only good English players out there are in academies. Sign or promote them instead.

The only good English players are playing for Spurs.

 

[bluesince76]

I get that. But he is English. And that has an extra tax. Talent wise, he is very good. Makes mistakes, yes. Good? Absolutely.

The mistake everyone keeps making is that they think football is static. It isn't. Some players are just far better in certain systems than they are in others. Stones just plays and looks like a player who'd be far better in a possession based team.

Pep's teams have historically been possession heavy. Robert Huth and Wes Morgan have done well and ate about to win a league title. But both will suck in our system and Mangala will be player of the season if he played for them.

Every time I've watched Stones, bar the Liverpool game, his been very good. Both defensively and on the ball. Yes he makes errors, bit I'm not too bothered. Some are a function of being young ( I can deal with that, he'll grow), some are due to trying too hard to play possession football on a non possesion team ( that actually excites me, as he is honing his skills already).

I sincerely doubt he'd find himself in similar quandaries that often on a Pep team. And I'm certain his ball skills will help keep possession longer and reduce the number of such situations all together.

I repeat, if he and Laporte come in, they'll both become the starting pair before season's end, and latest by start of the 17-18 season. They both fit the Pep style like a glove.

And that is really what it is about. Fit. Stones is a great fit for what we currently do, and whatvwe intend to do better under Pep.

Stones will be great in a possession based team, however, when we don't have possession, he'll be expected to get it back and that's where the problem starts. I've flippantly suggested this before, but I'll ask again - why wouldn't you play Nasri and Silva back there? They're far better ball players than Stones, so what is it that would stop you playing them there? That's how I feel about Stones.

If he plays a full season next year, I predict he'll be directly responsible for 10 goals by either getting caught in possession or just being in the wrong place for a defender, Ottamendi style. I don't see what he will bring to make up for the mistakes he'll make.

Hopefully we've learned from Sterling that when there's an overhyped English player, wait an extra season and pick them up cheap before they move to Sunderland.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

If anyone saw that shower of shite defensive display yesterday still thinks John stones would organise that defence in vinny absence are smoking good stuff.

Those who said purist pep wants football players who can pass the ball not leadership do make a good point but those successful teams still have leaders and organisers

As well as the flair don't forget pep had

Puyol the rock at barca for years. Head medicine balls all day long . Strong organiser and leader.

neur at Munich. Neur would have rightly drop kicked kolorov into the English Channel after that second goal. Joe laughed.

As well as overrated he is far too quiet on the pitch . My pals who are Everton season ticket holders are begging for us to come and buy stones and Berkeley from them - 70m they say. They tell me that they are definitely worth it!!!!!!!

 

[Jonsilfab]

Hopefully we've learned from Sterling that when there's an overhyped English player, wait an extra season and pick them up cheap before they move to Sunderland.

Laughable that you are ready to write off a 21 year old after only 1 season with us.

 

[richards30]

Laughable that you are ready to write off a 21 year old after only 1 season with us.

Scary isn't it some folk on here. If pep wants stones then pep will get stones and be the sound of it city are getting stones so some on here are going to be bouncing in the summer

 

[oldius]

No team is defensively sound if midfielders provide no shield whatsoever. We were left three on three countless times yesterday and world class defenders would have failed to protect the goal.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

No team is defensively sound if midfielders provide no shield whatsoever. We were left three on three countless times yesterday and world class defenders would have failed to protect the goal.

Absolutely spot on. This has been the problem much of the time this season and accounts for many of the real pastings we have taken. It's no coincidence that we have been much sounder recently with playing Fernando in a much more restricted role and with his much better form. Yesterday he didn't play, neither did Vinnie, Fernandinho had one of his poorest games in the three seasons he has been here (and was replaced after an hour) and Delph .... All too often there was no pressure on the ball. The positional play of our back four, especially Kolorov, was grim at times, though some of this resulted from our giving the ball away carelessly in midfield, and our midfield didn't have the pace to cope with their runners. Our back four (or three of them) were left out to dry. This shouldn't happen under Pep, and so the CBs may not have too much to cope with next season, but if he wants Stones...

 

[bluesince76]

Laughable that you are ready to write off a 21 year old after only 1 season with us.

I'm not and I think Pep will turn him into a decent player, but has his form with us or the last 3 months at least with Liverpool made him look like a £50m player? He was bobbins at the end at Liverpool and we all thought it was the pressure they were putting on him. Maybe if we'd walked away when they quoted their stupid price, we'd be back now for a player who looked £50m or we'd be back for a £15m player we can still turn into something.

As for Stones, I don't think he's good enough, but if we do want him, offer £25m, which is generous considering the season he's had, offer him £100k a week and walk away.

 

[bluesince76]

Scary isn't it some folk on here. If pep wants stones then pep will get stones and be the sound of it city are getting stones so some on here are going to be bouncing in the summer

Sorry, yes, doffs cap to Spafia and agrees that Mangala, Ottamendi, Fernando and Bony have all been excellent buys and therefore will in future agree with everything they do.

All hail the Spafia. What day is our open top bus this year, don't want to miss the quadruple being paraded?

 

[abu13]

I can see why would go for Stones if we were looking to put as a deep lying defensive midfielder.

 

[richards30]

Sorry, yes, doffs cap to Spafia and agrees that Mangala, Ottamendi, Fernando and Bony have all been excellent buys and therefore will in future agree with everything they do.

All hail the Spafia. What day is our open top bus this year, don't want to miss the quadruple being paraded?

Lol but the comment was about sterling?? For the record I think otamendi is a top class player who unfortunately is a split second out in his timing but am delighted he is here. Mangala has everything to be a top class CB besides a footballing brain unfortunately. Fernando has been vital second half of the season but bony I will agree has been a shocker

 

[daztrueblue91]

I can see why would go for Stones if we were looking to put as a deep lying defensive midfielder.

That seems to be the British way of thinking. Whenever a defender has technical ability on the ball then they should be moved further forward. Bale and Rodwell are just two examples that stand out and I'm sure there are a lot more.

By contrast, the continental approach seems to be moving the good technical players into the defensive positions. Zabba started off as a winger as did Jordi Alba and were turned into top class full backs.

We are also getting Guardiola who turned Martinez into a CB and has used Kimmich there quite a lot this season. So the chances of us buying a ball-playing CB and turning him into a CDM under Pep seems to be highly unlikely.

 

[daztrueblue91]

Lol but the comment was about sterling?? For the record I think otamendi is a top class player who unfortunately is a split second out in his timing but am delighted he is here. Mangala has everything to be a top class CB besides a footballing brain unfortunately. Fernando has been vital second half of the season but bony I will agree has been a shocker

If we sign Stones then I would hope that it means Denayer will be seen as a RB here. I just don't see the point in not giving him a chance or replacing Mangala or Otamendi.

Having the CB options as Vinny, Stones, Otamendi, Mangala and Denayer who would predominantly be a RB would make a lot of sense.

 

[bluesince76]

Lol but the comment was about sterling?? For the record I think otamendi is a top class player who unfortunately is a split second out in his timing but am delighted he is here. Mangala has everything to be a top class CB besides a footballing brain unfortunately. Fernando has been vital second half of the season but bony I will agree has been a shocker

I think Pellegrini has wrecked Sterling, but then I can't think of a single player he's improved. I'm really hoping he'll fit into Pep's style and an increase in pace and urgency will suit him. But we still spent almost £50m on a player who'd had a poor season, wanted away and from a club who had to sell him due to the way they'd behaved. And there were no other options for him or Liverpool.

Ottamendi is a rash clown or maybe just a split second out, either way is he worth the amount we paid? Mangala I have more time for than most and think with a run in the team with a fixed partner and a left back who, you know, defends, would be a solid choice, but he's Lescott poor with the ball at his feet. Again, worth what we paid?

Fernando is OK, but he's no upgrade on Barry and we spent a lot on a player who's limited to destructive capabilities - every team needs one and a world class one is worth every penny, but Fernando is no more than an average one.

We've spent a lot of money recently and there's not been a lot of value in it. Despite what Savage says, I would pay to watch KdB and think the team will be built around him for the next few years, but that aside, we've gone from buying Tevez, Yaya, Silva, Aguero to Fernando, Mangala and Bony which if we were working to a budget I could understand, but the spend goes up and the value goes down.

Back to Stones, I could see the sense at £15-25m, but £40m+? Even with an English premium, that's ridiculous. As a comparison, Toby whatshisname at Spurs was £12m last summer after a good season at Southampton