EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
Status
Not open for further replies.
abu13 said:
The most damning thing for me about the whole situation is that for all the undecided voters they will need to make a choice, and the fact is I no longer trust my own goverment to give me the facts needed for me to make the best decision for the average family. Years of corruption have taken their toll and the distrust of our politicians is down to their actions.
Click to expand...

That is just another reason to vote out, we need to get back to being able to hold our politicians to account, something we simply can not do while they can blame the EU or be given a cushy well paid number by them if they are un-elected, only to be replaced by another professional liar from the main parties.

First get out of an organisation that is corrupt, produces nothing and funds nothing, it spite of the utter shite the remainians spout its business that created jobs and wealth, not being in a club run by liars and thieves for there benefit alone.
 
Monkfish said:
but isn't it the very same wealth and job creating 'business' that is the leading voice in wanting a stay vote?
Click to expand...

No it most certainly is not, 95% of uk businesses do no trade with the EU yet are forced to put up with the EU red tape, just as the example that the National farmers union are on the remain side ( Because they get money from the EU) but the farmers I see mostly want out, dont believe the media like the BBC because its mainly bought and paid for.
 
Come on you Remainers, answer the question, how "in" do you want to be? What are your views on:

Should we be going for full political integration with the EU?
Do you think we should have open borders à la Shengen? (see what I did there)
Should we be signed up to the Euro?

For me it's no all the way, but then again I'm a Brexiter so suprise there. However if we vote to stay then we need to be in a position where our voice and views will really count and matter so let's go for it and get involved! The half measures we have dabbled with and the changes (ahem) Cameron has offered are the worst of all worlds aren't they?
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately big joe your making the mistake of thinking the EU is some kind of democracy where nations have any say in its actions, its a power/money/land grab by the people behind the whole scam, little more than a ponzi scheme wrote large, Greece is already its first victim with more to follow in short order when the Euro collapses as it must.
 
blueonblue said:
Unfortunately big joe your making the mistake of thinking the EU is some kind of democracy where nations have any say in its actions, its a power/money/land grab by the people behind the whole scam, little more than a ponzi scheme wrote large, Greece is already its first victim with more to follow in short order when the Euro collapses as it must.
Click to expand...
Clearly they are questions that are (understandably) difficult to contemplate and to answer - and that is in no way a slight at the Remainers.

It is a real conundrum for everyone, remainers and Brexiters alike.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
I think you're missing the point.... never mind, if you're content to have unelected people dictating to you how you should live your life, who am i to argue?

To me this is the thin edge of the wedge.

That said, what are your views on full political integration, fully open borders and the U.K. Joining the Euro? I am genuinely interested as I think if we're in then we're all in, especially if we want to sit at the high table and be an effective part of the key decision making processes and believe me, all the key decisions will be based around theEuro and how to make it stronger with little or no regard for the £ or British opinion - not that we'd be allowed to express one I any case.
Click to expand...

Full political integration will never happen. The objective of "ever closer union" is simply a proxy for making the eastern and southern countries adopt similar economic and political structures as those in western Europe. Making Greece more like Germany. Full political union, in any democratic form, where one Greek vote carries similar weight to one German vote, would result in a huge transfer of power from the richer counties to the poorer countries so will never happen.

I disagree with fully open borders, but similarly I do not want to be in an insular country, obsessed with repelling immigrants and refugees, which is what I think will happen if the Brexiters win.

The UK will never join the Euro. I do think that the Euro has been a disaster and will eventually collapse. Being out of the Euro and out of the EU will afford us greater protection when that happens compared to being in the EU and out of the Euro. But not that much more.
 
We're not leaving the EU. it's just not going to happen. Too many Buisnesses and trade deals set in stone. Whether we like it or not. The whole thing is just one big moanfest.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
So if you're so certain we're going to say, what are your thoughts on the questions I posed earlier? Genuinely interested to gauge opinion.
Click to expand...

what are your views on full political integration -

It's not going to happen. There won't be a EU army (although don't see why that's so bad) , There won't be one giant country called Europe. Britain will still be Britain. EU doesn't implement Laws to us really do they ? If so ... What are they ?

fully open borders -

We haven't got that now. Outside EU people have to have certain points. There is background checks on people. However I agree this is a concern and something our government needs to address in or out the EU.

and the U.K. Joining the Euro?

Are we ?
 
BlueHammer85 said:
We're not leaving the EU. it's just not going to happen. Too many Buisnesses and trade deals set in stone. Whether we like it or not. The whole thing is just one big moanfest.
Click to expand...
I think you are right. All we hear on here are the folk who have pretty much already made their minds up, and that goes for the wider debate too. It's marginally either side of a 50/50 split whichever poll you choose to believe. The vote will be decided by the undecideds, who when forced to choose (vote) will vote for the status quo from fear of the unknown - hence the dire scare tactics of the inners. The only hope the out vote has is if the undecideds can't be arsed to turn out and put a cross in either box - hence the need to scare them into voting.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
what are your views on full political integration -

It's not going to happen. There won't be a EU army (although don't see why that's so bad) , There won't be one giant country called Europe. Britain will still be Britain. EU doesn't implement Laws to us really do they ? If so ... What are they ?

fully open borders -

We haven't got that now. Outside EU people have to have certain points. There is background checks on people. However I agree this is a concern and something our government needs to address in or out the EU.

and the U.K. Joining the Euro?

Are we ?
Click to expand...


You are kidding aren't you? The Euro passes directives and the member states then have to implement those directives into their own laws. Failure to do so results in massive fines if the country disobeys. They cover all kinds of things from data, contract company law, competition law, employment and health and safety and many more.... Heard of the European convention of human rights by chance? They don't usually cover laws relating to crime though.

There are thousands of these directives (that is their actual name) and that's what they are we have to implement them. It's not optional.

The recent mobile phone case illustrates the remit in the courts , not just law making but now passing judgement. Our own cma authority had decided but the Eu court decided on the case not the sovereign state. They both agreed with each other by the way.

It is estimated that 60 percent of our laws now come from the Eu. By the way some of the laws are good but some are daft and the tentacles grow and grow which is the problem. There is a disconnect between those making the laws and who we vote for which is the issue I object to by the way not whether a banana needs to bend.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
You are kidding aren't you? The Euro passes directives and the member states then have to implement those directives into their own laws. Failure to do so results in massive fines if the country disobeys. They cover all kinds of things from data, contract company law, competition law, employment and health and safety and many more.... Heard of the European convention of human rights by chance? They don't usually cover laws relating to crime though.

There are thousands of these directives (that is their actual name) and that's what they are we have to implement them. It's not optional.

The recent mobile phone case illustrates the remit in the courts , not just law making but now passing judgement. Our own cma authority had decided but the Eu court decided on the case not the sovereign state. They both agreed with each other by the way.

It is estimated that 60 percent of our laws now come from the Eu. By the way some of the laws are good but some are daft and the tentacles grow and grow which is the problem. There is a disconnect between those making the laws and who we vote for which is the issue I object to by the way not whether a banana needs to bend.
Click to expand...

Fair reply.

My snobbish view is how much of that 60% law which has passed affects my day to day life ? Or yours ? Do you have a personal example where the EU has affected your way of life at all ?
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Fair reply.

My snobbish view is how much of that 60% law which has passed affects my day to day life ? Or yours ? Do you have a personal example where the EU has affected your way of life at all ?
Click to expand...

Yes everyday due to what I do for a living.

One example If you are involved in the travel industry there is a new directive coming in called the package travel directive. It's designed to protect consumers if they book online so it means well at its heart but it is full of red tape and inconsistencies with other European legislation and vat legislation. Sorry it sounds poncy this reply but you asked. The directive is well intentioned by the way but the level of crap travel companies have to now sort as a consequence is an example of red tape etc. There already is abta and atol so it's just well...google it if you want to see an actual directive coming in. You could argue Google is the ultimate travel company btw but that is for another thread.

Anyway look the actual laws are well intentioned and I am sure in the end we will get through it but the principle of the Eu again now getting involved and imposing An overarching law on the uk and other member states is just well in my view wrong. The law makers need to be held to account by those that elect them. That principle is divorced now. It's actually even divorced within the Eu itself as the meps don't make the law.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
what are your views on full political integration -

It's not going to happen. There won't be a EU army (although don't see why that's so bad) , There won't be one giant country called Europe. Britain will still be Britain. EU doesn't implement Laws to us really do they ? If so ... What are they ?

fully open borders -

We haven't got that now. Outside EU people have to have certain points. There is background checks on people. However I agree this is a concern and something our government needs to address in or out the EU.

and the U.K. Joining the Euro?

Are we ?
Click to expand...

Well if we stay in don't you think we need to have influence over the big decisions that will be made? Every decision will involve the consideration of the impact on the Euro and we will be impotent as we are not involved.

All the strategies will be built around protecting and strengthening the Euro and we won't be part of it.

Make no mistake I want out but, and it's X big BUT, if we stay in then I think we need to be party to the big monetary decisions that will be takes. As it stands today we will not be.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top