EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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EalingBlue2 said:
This is the problem now, the leavers have become like the hippies of the late 60's, they live in a fantasist world where every road and every person leads us to a land of milk and honey and free love is abound.
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Not really.

It is the remain camp who are the hippies. They preach about 'feeling European' how wonderful it is that everyone in Europe now just gets along fine with lots of peace, love and understanding - no more wars like we used to have. They claim the EU has enabled us to live well and live in a land of milk and honey.

The reality is that the EU is a low growth, high unemployment bloc which is riven with disagreements between its members. Borders are going back up, and border fences too. It is becoming steadily less important in world terms with increasing austerity and poverty for many EU citizens. It lurches from crisis to crisis and has not delivered the security or prosperity it promised, and it is becoming more unaccountable, undemocratic and authoritarian.

And all the while, and against all the evidence, the pro-EU idealists and dreamers insist it is a good thing.
 
urmston said:
Not really.

It is the remain camp who are the hippies. They preach about 'feeling European' how wonderful it is that everyone in Europe now just gets along fine with lots of peace, love and understanding - no more wars like we used to have. They claim the EU has enabled us to live well and live in a land of milk and honey.

The reality is that the EU is a low growth, high unemployment bloc which is riven with disagreements between its members. Borders are going back up, and border fences too. It is becoming steadily less important in world terms with increasing austerity and poverty for many EU citizens. It lurches from crisis to crisis and has not delivered the security or prosperity it promised, and it is becoming more unaccountable, undemocratic and authoritarian.

And all the while, and against all the evidence, the pro-EU idealists and dreamers insist it is a good thing.
Click to expand...
All the things you mention about the EU are long term European issues, that started decades before the EU and will happen in or out as Europe has been in decline for a century.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
All the things you mention about the EU are long term European issues, that started decades before the EU and will happen in or out as Europe has been in decline for a century.
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The EU is directly responsible for the low growth and high unemployment in the Eurozone with it's insane and politically motivated decision to lock countries as diverse as Greece and Germany into a common currency. As for the EUs handling of the migrant crisis I really don't see how this can be defended. The economic downturn and migrant crisis are leading to the rise of the right across Europe, and far from being anti European, the leave side are a beacon of hope for freedom loving people across the continent.
 
As a point of note: Thanks to Bluemoon and this thread in particular, I decided the time had come. For the first time in my 55 years on this planet I decided to get actively involved in a political debate.

So I contacted the VoteLeave campaign and got a "Stall Pack" and set up a stall in Port Talbot which is relatively local to me. I was quite concerned about how this arguement would be received in South Wales which is a very unionised area and full of local Labour supporters. Bear in mind the majority of TU's and the Labour Party are backing the remain campaign.

I could not believe the response we had. I promise you there is no exaggeration here.

1. Over 85% of the people spoken to were all for leaving and they held very strong opinion.

2. A further 10% were genuinely undecided which included a couple of people who did not wish to disclose their views

3. Only 5% said I want to stay in.

There was nothing scientific about this survey, it was a normal Saturday morning in an everyday town centre, albeit a relatively poverty stricken place.

The feelings were strong and they meant it. Given that the people they believe in and follow faithfully (TU's and the Labour Party) I was amazed. I would have thought in these circumstances this would have been a town wher there was tough opinion on both sides.

I do wonder whether the Government has read the public mood on this correctly.

Still, it was one part (2 hours) of one day in one town.... and as the saying goes "one swallow does not make a summer"

Thought I'd share this to add to the debate....
 
So about 2 days ago and 4 pages ago there were two challenges issued to exit supporters by remain supporters to provide evidence to substantiate two points of view. The first was to prove that the UK would win a trade war against the EU 'hands down'. The second was to prove the EU immigration depressed wages or increased unemployment. Both it appears have fell on death ears...
 
jimbopm said:
So about 2 days ago and 4 pages ago there were two challenges issued to exit supporters by remain supporters to provide evidence to substantiate two points of view. The first was to prove that the UK would win a trade war against the EU 'hands down'. The second was to prove the EU immigration depressed wages or increased unemployment. Both it appears have fell on death ears...
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With all due respect, pretty daft questions, probably why they've been roundly ignored. This will always be about opinion. Could turn them on their head and say PROVE the UK wouldn't win a trade war against the EU hands down and prove that EU immigration hasn't depressed wages or increased unemployment. See what I mean? This wil always be about opinion and conjecture. That's why the questions have fallen on "death" ears...
 
BigJoe#1 said:
With all due respect, pretty daft questions, probably why they've been roundly ignored. This will always be about opinion. Could turn them on their head and say PROVE the UK wouldn't win a trade war against the EU hands down and prove that EU immigration hasn't depressed wages or increased unemployment. See what I mean? This wil always be about opinion and conjecture. That's why the questions have fallen on "death" ears...
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Well, to be honest, we would not need a trade war against the EU as we are in it, which is really the point.
Also the EU does not set the minimum wage nor apply wage freezes the UK government does, which again is another reason to not put our eggs in the London basket.
 
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