EU referendum

[yep]

For your mid term exam;
Discuss;
Why is there no opposition in the European Parliament?

 

[manctheknife]

The only leader who would be ecstatic at the EU becoming divided and weaker. He still hasn't forgiven the EU for taking Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Poland, Czech Reublic, Slovakia, Bulgaria and Romania away from Russia's sphere of political and economic influence.

Neither have I....

 

[adrian99]

How anyone can support a campaign fronted by buffoons like Johnson, Gove or Farage I'll never know. Louise Minchin owned Farage on Breakfast TV this morning when he sidestepped her question on how boatloads of illegal migrants can be stopped if we leave the EU. Farage's facile reply was that we'd simply strengthen our border controls to vet who can and cannot enter the UK. Derrr Nigel. We're talking ILLEGAL migrants here, not those that arrive at Heathrow or on Eurostar.

Do any of the Brexit supporters on here know who is the only world leader who supports the leave campaign? That's right. It's Vladimir Putin. That should be be enough to raise a doubt or two for a start.

Illegal immigration is easy to deal with, set high fines on employers employing illegal immigrants £100,000 each illegal should do it, enforce it and the same for landlords that house illegals, illegals will self deport when they have no where to live or work. I wouldn't listen to Louise Minchin she was wrong on the US presidential election and will be very wrong come November one of the many reasons why Trump is popular he will remove illegals and/or create an environment where they can no longer work and find accommodation illegally, 11 - 30 million of them. As for Putin ther is no real threat but the EU's constant expansion certainly created tension between Putin and EU. In Syria Putin did more than his bit against IS.

 

[smudgedj]

Who said anything about tariffs being punitive? I spent my entire working life in exports and I can assure you that export markets are much more competitive than the domestic market and any sort of tariff or duty (effectively they amount to the same thing) will make our products more expensive. Maintaining a competitive edge is vital and even a small percentage differential can result in the loss of a contract or project. Our exporting companies need every competitive advantage they can get.

See also Blueish Swede's response below.

Then it´s in the interests of both parties to allow mutual access to each other's markets. A free trade deal can be done, like they have with other countries. The only relationship that will change will be the political one.

 

[grunge]

For your mid term exam;
Discuss;
Why is there no opposition in the European Parliament?

Because its not a party that is elected, its a bunch of MEP's that are voted in from each country in the EU with a spread of party views. the problem is a lot of MEP's that get voted in seem to be right wing ( Ukip etc ).

 

[BigJoe#1]

They would be able to walk in because if we want a trade deal with Europe we will have to accept free movement of labour. If we want an economic disaster we could go it alone and trade with Europe on worse terms than anyone else and not have free movement of labour. On top of that if we did go that way then Europe would happily usher refugees through to go to the UK as there would be no incentive at all to stop immigration. What you wrote is the Brexit pipe dream but there is more chance of rainbow leprechauns dancing on dodos backs whilst handing out pounds on Teddington high street.

Unless that is the aim of such a policy is reducing standards of living and reducing GDP, what makes you think In a global free market that the cream of the crop would go to a country with declining infrastructure, education and high taxes?

How does having uncontrolled immigration from the EU help the housing crisis and employment problem? Until we can house the people already here, no one else should be allowed in, from Europe or anywhere unless they have skills we need and they can sustain themselves?

 

[BigJoe#1]

Get real. Nearly half of our export trade is with the EU and without a trade deal our exports will be subject to tariffs making them more expensive at point of use in the EU. If there are other ready markets out there that we can steam into to take up the slack why aren't we already doing this? Some are talking about the glorious opportunities in Commonwealth markets but Commonwealth Preference Tariffs were scrapped decades ago so that argument is even more redundant than it was 40 years ago when others with a similarly tenuous grip on reality were putting it forward during the 1975 Common Market referendum.

As for your argumment about the effects of Brexit on immigration, below is part of my post from yesterday.

"....., the situation in the 'Jungle' in Calais is that, as part of cross border co-operation within the EU, the French authorities are committed to do their best to prevent these people (and any others) from illegal access to the UK. There is also a British police presence in Calais to monitor the situation and co-operate with the French. Calais is therefore effectively our border. If we leave the EU the French police will wash their hands of the migrant issue in Calais and no longer prevent anyone from attempting to enter the UK illegally as it would no longer be either their problem or their responsibility. The British police contingent would also have to be withdrawn. This would mean open season for illegal migrants and the couple of recent instances of boats full of them caught crossing the Channel would increase exponentially and northern France would become a magnet for many more migrants trying to enter the UK illegally."

Because we can't, we are tied to the EU. The EU has no deal then the UK can't have a deal. Not fair is it, that we have to work at the rate of slowest and most resistant members?

 

[blueonblue]

That's right. It's Vladimir Putin

"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, and live the life of Muslims then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need Muslim minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We will not tolerate disrespect of our Russian culture. We had better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Muslims are taking over those countries and they will not take over Russia. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of Sharia Law and Muslims. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the Russian national interest first, observing that the Muslim minorities are not Russians.

How very dare a leader speak up for his own country like that...

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, and live the life of Muslims then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need Muslim minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We will not tolerate disrespect of our Russian culture. We had better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Muslims are taking over those countries and they will not take over Russia. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of Sharia Law and Muslims. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the Russian national interest first, observing that the Muslim minorities are not Russians.

How very dare a leader speak up for his own country like that...

His do what I say or disappear type of rule is very new age!!

I get your point though

 

[mcfc1632]

"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, and live the life of Muslims then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need Muslim minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We will not tolerate disrespect of our Russian culture. We had better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Muslims are taking over those countries and they will not take over Russia. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of Sharia Law and Muslims. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the Russian national interest first, observing that the Muslim minorities are not Russians.

How very dare a leader speak up for his own country like that...

If a UK Party leader spoke and acted with such conviction (democratically though) then they would become PM. Of course such thinking will simply get commented upon as being 'racist' or 'xenophobic' - but it would be good to have such clear commitment to a national identity.

On a different point; last week I put money on a leave vote with Betfair ar 5.1 which I considered to be totally skewed odds and I sold it back today at 4.5. It surprised me that the odds would close by over half a point in a week that preceded purdah and during which such a plethora of rank scaremongering has taken place.

 

[cibaman]

Gove alone is enough to make me vote in!

Can you imagine what the tory party will become if the vote leave campaign wins!!!!

I actually think Gove is the most credible and competent of the Leavers!

I would like to vote out, but not under any circumstances. I would only vote out if I could trust whichever government would be managing the exit process. I would be happy to vote out if I believed that the Government would forge a strong, constructive, arms length relationship with the EU. Not if I believed that the government would be purely fixated on keeping the immigrants out.

I would be more likely to vote out if we had a moderate Labour government (albeit a Labour government is never likely to agree to a referendum). Or even a coalition. But I've come round to the view that I couldn't vote out knowing that the exit process would be managed by a Tory government moving still further to the right.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Its racist to not call someone racist these days. :-)

Pervert ;-)

 

[blueonblue]

A labour government would agree to wearing pink floral dresses if it gave them power, a bunch of self serving c*nts led by "A man of principle" who jumped on the remain band wagon despite it being exactly what he has spouted against for the last forty years.

 

[TonyM]

Pervert ;-)

FACT!

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I actually think Gove is the most credible and competent of the Leavers!

I would like to vote out, but not under any circumstances. I would only vote out if I could trust whichever government would be managing the exit process. I would be happy to vote out if I believed that the Government would forge a strong, constructive, arms length relationship with the EU. Not if I believed that the government would be purely fixated on keeping the immigrants out.

I would be more likely to vote out if we had a moderate Labour government (albeit a Labour government is never likely to agree to a referendum). Or even a coalition. But I've come round to the view that I couldn't vote out knowing that the exit process would be managed by a Tory government moving still further to the right.

That sounds like a very well thought through stance (even if I can’t agree on Gove). The ideal scenario for me would be a government elected with a 4 year mandate to seek to either reform the EU or in failing to reform it to prepare a detailed exit plan. On that basis I would be comfortable leaving. As it is, there is no plan and no government with any mandate to form a plan! We would have a full on tory civil war with opportunists like Johnson promoting their own careers while the Economy slowly tanked! I never imagined Corbyn generating any kind of momentum and thought he would be out within a few years but a Tory meltdown could see him through to the next election and even give him an outside chance of winning! An out vote would be an absolute disaster for progressive centre ground politics.

 

[laserblue]

Then it´s in the interests of both parties to allow mutual access to each other's markets. A free trade deal can be done, like they have with other countries. The only relationship that will change will be the political one.

As I posted yesterday, the leave campaign is forever telling us that Norway got themselves a trade deal with the EU. That's true but what they haven't been telling us is that to obtain that trade deal they had to agree to unlimited immigration from any and all EU countries. That would also apply to us so we'd be right back where we started except that we'd be on the outside looking in and have no influence on future policy. It's nowhere near as simplistic as the likes of Johnson, Gove and Farage are making out and they're being dishonest to pretend that it is.

 

[laserblue]

Because we can't, we are tied to the EU. The EU has no deal then the UK can't have a deal. Not fair is it, that we have to work at the rate of slowest and most resistant members?

I'm afraid this is total nonsense. As I posted earlier I worked all my adult life in exports and travelled to and worked the markets in the Middle East, Near East, Indian subcontinent and southern Africa with no such restriction.

 

[sir baconface]

You seem to have missed the point of it, its the fact there is NO PLAN ( that we have been told of ) Exiter's have no clue what they are voting on.

Nice shot, sir. Right in the foot.

If it really is "anything but EU", what the fcuk does that say about over 40 years experience of EEC/EU?

 

[sir baconface]

People really need to read up on Import/Export duty and VAT rules, these are not Tarrifs but will still increase the price of things we import/export.

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

Yet again, an assumption that economics are all that matter.

 

[manctheknife]

I'm afraid this is total nonsense. As I posted earlier I worked all my adult life in exports and travelled to and worked the markets in the Middle East, Near East, Indian subcontinent and southern Africa with no such restriction.

Hash smuggling doesn't count...