EU referendum

[kevin horlocks wand]

Agree with this but whoever wins, we are going to have tough times ahead.

Quite right. In the uk the housing bubble is about to burst we are in debt to our eyeballs again (after 2008 I thought the bank of England and the imf and all these other so called experts said we could never get into debt again like we have done , well.... ) The eu is fooked economically in Southern Europe. We vote in and these issues won't go away.dont kid yourself that voting in is a magical wand to make us not go into recession and our economic issues go away.

It will just give the inners an excuse to say well it would have been worse if we had left of course......

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Which outcome is genuinely better for the long-term health of the NHS?.

We don't know. It is dependant on how successful the wider economy is.

Challenges from leaving the EU eg about movement of labour / staff would be sorted over time (use of visas etc) providing we did not become less welcoming as a country and we trained more of our own workforce.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Sadly with Scotland being the way Scotland is and Corbyn being at the helm of the Labour Party I cannot see them getting anywhere near No.10. I appreciate others may disagree but in reality that is the way it will be.

I think you are right. The only chance for labour is that post referendum the Tories tear themselves apart, and labour become the new least worst option.

 

[blueonblue]

I have little doubt the shit is going to hit the fan for all those reasons and more besides, the question is are we better placed to ride it out by belonging to an organisation that does not have our national interests in mind, big organisations as a matter of course are slow to react to crisis and even more so when there are 28 bosses all wanting their own way.

Out we have a far better chance to my mind, we will have control of our own destiny rather than at the mercy of others with their own agenda.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Whoa...i'm against war myself mate, but i'd never disrespect any serviceman or woman if they've never been convicted of malpractice or abuse whilst in the service. It's a job I once thought I could do until reality gave me a firm slap in the face, so i've got huge respect for those that do, especially those who lost their lives as a result of it.

Hate the war, not the soldier.

well said! and it's sad that comments like that have to appear as I'm sure maineroadblue's comments were representative of a lot of servicemen rightly or wrongly - I am surprised at the ferocity of blue on blue attacks on this thread, surely we can leave that to the tories

 

[2sheikhs]

Regardless of any in or out vote, labour is finished as a mainstream political party.
Blair is right about Corbyn. In fact, it's only the likes of Blair that could save them.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Which outcome is genuinely better for the long-term health of the NHS?.

The one that involves the current Tory regime or their want to be replacement Boris as far from government as possible. A path we take will always be towards becoming more European or more American you choose which is better for Healthcare

 

[EalingBlue2]

Regardless of any in or out vote, labour is finished as a mainstream political party.
Blair is right about Corbyn. In fact, it's only the likes of Blair that could save them.

Like the Tories were finished in 97 or the right was wiped out in Canada - swings and roundabouts always will be.

 

[EalingBlue2]

well said! and it's sad that comments like that have to appear as I'm sure maineroadblue's comments were representative of a lot of servicemen rightly or wrongly - I am surprised at the ferocity of blue on blue attacks on this thread, surely we can leave that to the tories

I wouldn't attack anyone for their profession of working for the good of the country and in accordance with the law be they teacher, police officer, nurse, bin man or serving member of the forces, equally I would not ever put someone on a pedestal and pretend their views hold any more value on other. I thought the original post that drew ire came across very very like crap I see from Britain first that pretends to be reasonable but hides a nasty agenda. I felt that but I could have been wrong as there is a fine line. But it is pretty offensive to people to be told how their own forefathers felt and what they fought for when it simply isn't true of many many of them.

What is clear is that after the war people wanted a fairer, more equal society that looked after everyone and those masses who voted for Attlee would find the current greed and division in Britain the very anathema of what they stood for

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I'd just like to clear this up and acknowledge Tim of the Oak and Ealingblue2 for recognising what was being said

Two things:

1. These are my views and not the views if the Brexiters per se.

2. I did not or do not blame the EU for the IRA. I merely questioned why when both Ireland and the UK who are in the EU, Ireland can refuse an extradition request if under EU law they should be extradited?

Now take issue if you want or must but if the Coroner decides to re-open the enquiry then it is not going to be able to be executed correctly if these people cannot be questioned.

Spot on BigJoe

The Coroner has re-opened the enquiry and not before time. Apparently our prosecutors have never asked for the more recent suspects in the Birmingham bombings to be extradited from Ireland.

Having just watched the news, I wanted to pay tribute to the courage of Paddy Hill who has come out and named the IRA suspects. This takes some bottle!

I know this is not central to the EU debate!

 

[EalingBlue2]

I have little doubt the shit is going to hit the fan for all those reasons and more besides, the question is are we better placed to ride it out by belonging to an organisation that does not have our national interests in mind, big organisations as a matter of course are slow to react to crisis and even more so when there are 28 bosses all wanting their own way.

Out we have a far better chance to my mind, we will have control of our own destiny rather than at the mercy of others with their own agenda.

So you'd leave it all to people who don't have their own agenda like Dave and Boris ..... Mmmmmmmmm......

 

[2sheikhs]

I predict that Scotland will have another vote on independence and leave the UK. The traditional labour support will go to ukip in droves and the tories will ditch Cameron for a hard liner.
The labour party will be as inconsequential as the greens.
So it won't be swings and roundabouts EB, until major changes are made and the electorate actually get listened to.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Spot on BigJoe

The Coroner has re-opened the enquiry and not before time. Apparently our prosecutors have never asked for the more recent suspects in the Birmingham bombings to be extradited from Ireland.

Having just watched the news, I wanted to pay tribute to the courage of Paddy Hill who has come out and named the IRA suspects. This takes some bottle!

I know this is not central to the EU debate!

The families of the victims deserve to know the truth even if justice can never happen .

 

[EalingBlue2]

I predict that Scotland will have another vote on independence and leave the UK. The traditional labour support will go to ukip in droves and the tories will ditch Cameron for a hard liner.
The labour party will be as inconsequential as the greens.
So it won't be swings and roundabouts EB, until major changes are made and the electorate actually get listened to.

It is a crisis of leadership as well as listening and there is too much today shaped by the agendas of the media

 

[Tim of the Oak]

The families of the victims deserve to know the truth even if justice can never happen .

Yes but maybe there can be a level of justice eg this might mean that the perpetrators are despised in their own communities.

 

[2sheikhs]

The media does have its part to play but it just seems to be muddying the waters regarding the in or out debate.
Each newspaper chooses their financial "expert" to back up their stance and nobody knows who to believe.

 

[sir baconface]

To think we are arguing of who is best between Farage / Johnson or if man and Gideon is frightening. It's like having to choose between Mills/Ferdinand or Keane/Owen to be pundits on a city game

Or like a Labour voter choosing between some cnut who pisses away taxpayers' money or some no-hoper you've never heard of.

 

[sir baconface]

I have never forgiven the EU over 1066. Two invasions in a week and they never said a word.Shambles.

Absolutely. If we'd had a points system and language test, the Normans would never have been allowed in...

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Absolutely. If we'd had a points system and language test, the Normans would never have been allowed in...

Haha! That European integration has always been a sensitive subject.

Also, I can see another night of the long knives in the Tory party soon!

 

[cibaman]

Spot on BigJoe

The Coroner has re-opened the enquiry and not before time. Apparently our prosecutors have never asked for the more recent suspects in the Birmingham bombings to be extradited from Ireland.

Having just watched the news, I wanted to pay tribute to the courage of Paddy Hill who has come out and named the IRA suspects. This takes some bottle!

I know this is not central to the EU debate!

Perhaps they just didn't think they had a realistic prospect of securing a conviction? Its always difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt that someone has committed murder when its already supposedly been proved beyond reasonable doubt that someone else committed the murder. And the case of the Birmingham bombings there's always going to be a huge doubt over the credibility of any evidence given the way that evidence was manipulated the first time round. Even if they produce, say, compelling new DNA evidence, questions will quite rightly be asked about how that evidence was obtained.