smudgedj
Well-Known Member
You think you´re going to keep the pound?
Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain working well for them poor fuckers this EU lark.
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EU referendum
- Thread starter Ric
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You think you´re going to keep the pound?
Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain working well for them poor fuckers this EU lark.
TRUE BLUE NO1
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You think you´re going to keep the pound?
Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain working well for them poor fuckers this EU lark.
Yes....I think we're going to keep the pound.....and the govenment would need to put it to the country for a vote, if they ever wanted to change that.... I'm confident we're keeping the pound!;)
blueonblue
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The question is was that treason?
Try searching google and read what was said, it is stated in plain English it is an act of treason by no less than the lord chancellor
Yes....I think we're going to keep the pound.....and the govenment would need to put it to the country for a vote, if they ever wanted to change that.... I'm confident we're keeping the pound!;)
Then your confidence is misplaced. make no mistake this is the last vote the British people will get on the EU. An invite will be the starting gun for full steam ahead to federalism. we will have the euro your taxes will be paid to a central tax office and the funds distributed around Europe as they see fit. they will decide how your tax money is spent which country your tax money supports how much your taxed and if you think they will fund a free at the point of delivery health service for everyone in the UK when the rest of Europe wont have it then you need to give u our head a good wobble.
smudgedj
Well-Known Member
Why would there be a vote on that issue (or any issue) You´ve already voted, people may think they are voting for the status quo but in reality they are voting for more integration. The loss of the pound, an EU army, centralised government. In the EU with Germany setting the rates for the Euro it destroyed the club med - Spain, Portugal, Italy Greece, these arn´t cities these are entire countries destroyed. Google tells me 30% youth unemployment in Portugal, 45% in Spain and 39% in Italy. Worst of all 49% in Greece.Yes....I think we're going to keep the pound.....and the govenment would need to put it to the country for a vote, if they ever wanted to change that.... I'm confident we're keeping the pound!;)
The EU is a bureaucracy. The UK is a democracy. A lot of people would prefer to be governed by a democracy.
but he didn't say how many times they had overruled a minister he said how many time we had tried to force a change and been successful. He was correct It's ZERO times.Its here...
https://fullfact.org/europe/how-often-does-eu-overrule-british-ministers/
If you do vote leave you might as well know the truth rather than BoB's views
Bird n Bees might stay but you'll have less chance of practicing the Birds n Bees with European women
Why??? if we vote to leave the EU will there be gunships all around the coast stopping anyone from leaving or coming in? Don't be stupid! a vote to leave is not a vote to live our lives out on this island with no friends or anyone to trade with or any immigration it's a vote for it to be our decisions not someone else's!
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
Just my opinion as dont normally discuss politics as its a bit like City's transfer forum (have to be careful what you say!;)
I think this is the mistake many people are making....."He promised things and yet again he hasnt delivered"......When I watched the live questions on Sky last night it seemed pretty clear that many people are finding it difficult to separate their issues with Cameron/Tories and leaving the EU.....These are 2 completely different issues......This isnt a vote for or against Conservative government. In my mind its clear that the country will be worse off for a couple of years until we find our feet if we leave but what people seem to forget is that Cameron will still be running the country for the next 4 years......So the people that laugh at Cameron and question is ability to run the country will actually be putting more trust/faith in him to lead us during a difficult time if we leave the EU.....Many of our issues in this country are not because we are in the EU....they are because we've had a poorly run government....For everyone voting to leave.......you'll still have Cameron running this country on June 24th but without the trade links, jobs etc the EU offer.....now thats scary!;)
I hear what you are saying but stick by my comment that he promised, via his party manifesto to bring immigration down and now, he is at a loss to explain why it is he cant do it. Of course we all know the answer, its the EU and their rules we have to abide by but unfortunately for him, he is backing the wrong horse by wanting to stay in and his promise on immigration is rightly being used against him.
TRUE BLUE NO1
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Then your confidence is misplaced. make no mistake this is the last vote the British people will get on the EU. An invite will be the starting gun for full steam ahead to federalism. we will have the euro your taxes will be paid to a central tax office and the funds distributed around Europe as they see fit. they will decide how your tax money is spent which country your tax money supports how much your taxed and if you think they will fund a free at the point of delivery health service for everyone in the UK when the rest of Europe wont have it then you need to give u our head a good wobble.
Understand the concerns but there is no fact or proof any of that will happen. Whether we like it or not....whatever happens to EU is going to affect us whether we in or not...We are voting to stay in EU under the currently negotiated agreement which allows us to keep the pound and set individual immigration legislation etc etc.......to talk about central tax office in EU could be a very long time down the road, if ever and even if it did happen in the future....in 10-20years time, maybe thats what will work and be best for the country..no one can see the future!...we cant stand still and close our eyes to whats going on around us....The world is changing and we either work with it or sink....trying to build a wall around us is just a false sense of security imho! I'm confident that if we leave we'll be worse off for the next few years and it will have a negative effect on jobs and the ecomony....life is hard enough without trying to make it more difficult and I'd vote against anything that would hold back or risk my childrens futures.....whether we have a central tax office many years from now is a completely different argument for a completely different time when the landscape of Britain/Europe could be completely different....
TRUE BLUE NO1
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I hear what you are saying but stick by my comment that he promised, via his party manifesto to bring immigration down and now, he is at a loss to explain why it is he cant do it. Of course we all know the answer, its the EU and their rules we have to abide by but unfortunately for him, he is backing the wrong horse by wanting to stay in and his promise on immigration is rightly being used against him.
I dont have an issue with immigration "IF" people pay there way and dont put financial pressure on the system. If they working, pay taxes..opening small business which offer more jobs etc then thats all a positive for the country....The new agreement which would come in if we stay, means people cant play the system as easy, like they have done in the past........I just dont think you just dont cut off your nose to spite your face!....It's easy for us all to say how unhappy we are now in the EU but will be interesting to see if people still feel the same when the company they work for has to cut back on work force because they have to run their business by a different set of standards or have to pay higher taxes on exports etc...or if mortgage rates have to go up and the average person has to pay £££ more on their mortgage payments each month.....all just examples but very real concerns if we leave the EU....Everyone that wants out has got it in there minds that we will be better out of the EU.....but until we take the risk and gamble with our futures how do you know??.....I've not heard one argument from the powers that be that have said they can "gaurantee" the country and the person on the street will be better off if we leave....I dont mind us putting £10 on City winning the Prem next season but I not going to bet on alot of rumours/unknows and thats the only thing the leaders of the "outs" are expecting us to do.....imho!
Have strong views on this but enjoying the discussion everyone!...thanks to those that have replied!;)
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AlgarveBlu
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Understand the concerns but there is no fact or proof any of that will happen. Whether we like it or not....whatever happens to EU is going to affect us whether we in or not...We are voting to stay in EU under the currently negotiated agreement which allows us to keep the pound and set individual immigration legislation etc etc.......to talk about central tax office in EU could be a very long time down the road, if ever and even if it did happen in the future....in 10-20years time, maybe thats what will work and be best for the country..no one can see the future!...we cant stand still and close our eyes to whats going on around us....The world is changing and we either work with it or sink....trying to build a wall around us is just a false sense of security imho! I'm confident that if we leave we'll be worse off for the next few years and it will have a negative effect on jobs and the ecomony....life is hard enough without trying to make it more difficult and I'd vote against anything that would hold back or risk my childrens futures.....whether we have a central tax office many years from now is a completely different argument for a completely different time when the landscape of Britain/Europe could be completely different....
I too am considering my children’s future and they’re fortunate enough to have swiss passports and escape the debacle the eu is turning into.
All the discussions people have on immigration, sovereignty and the economics are the symptoms and not the cause. Everything radiates from the inception of the euro, you can not replicate an optimal currency area in Europe similar to what the U.S has for obvious reasons.
The eu does not have 10-20 years time to consolidate a fiscal position for the eurozone members – you have three possible scenarios:-
1) Nothing changes - eu continues in it’s deflationary spiral due to the euro – this is an unlikely option because the electorate of the eu are already voting at the ballot box with far left parties and anti-euro parties such as in Germany – The move to the far right has the eu's fingerprints all over it as well with incoherent internal and external migration policies but that’s another story. Look at the correlation of the rise of these dozen or so parties mapped against the macro economic events that have hit the eu in the last 7 years. It’s not a coincidence. The EU parliament will end up looking like a right/left wing protest rally in about 5 years.
If you think this is the most likely option then expect to see uk trade with the eu to continue to diminish whilst being hamstrung to do external trade with other nations (see Switzerland for hedging your bets).
2) Fiscal and political union – The most likely scenario – Do you seriously think that the eu will give due consideration and additional exemptions to the non-euro members during this process. Think about it – Every ounce of energy will be set up to preserve the sanctity of the euro , tax, regulatory, insurance and employment legislation will have to fall into this. Are we all suggesting that the uk will be shielded from this by Camerons negotiations? It can’t happen like that because ultimately the uk will have unfair advantages within the eu and hoover the investments up with it’s more liberal de-regulated structures. In essence the likes of uk/denmark have the ability to create an offshore centre in the heart of the eu! It will not be allowed. Many of the rules they will need to introduce will encroach on the uk ( it may not have to adopt the exact same rules but there will be locks in place to ensure the euro survives and has a level/better playing field with the non euro members)
Even more sweetners will be offered to non euro members to join the currency.
3) The Euro implodes – Not worth thinking about really, but with the UK in the back seat of the car it will avoid the full frontal force of this event but it will definitely be in the a&e ward for a long time one way or another. Do you recall the events of when the eu called the uk to chip in for emergency loans to Greece (the uk said no in the end and it hasn’t been forgotten by the eu) – can you seriously see the uk just whistling next to a lamp post when it’s fellow club members lie littered across the street!
You'll get your remain wish but I fear that you will be on the wrong side of history in the not too distant future.
It’s all a shame really as the eu had it about right at one stage but as usual ideology and good intentions turns into greed when the few at the top can sense even greater power.
kas_tippler
Well-Known Member
The Common Market seems to evolved into something completely different since the last referendum in 1975.
Helmet Cole
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This is why I want out. This evolution has been and continues to be a slow erosion of our ability to govern ourselves. Immigration, economics, and such are incidental although obviously not unrelated.The Common Market seems to evolved into something completely different since the last referendum in 1975.
I love you. AlgarveBlu. Yes I Do. Yes I Do. AlgarveBlu. I ....love .....you.I too am considering my children’s future and they’re fortunate enough to have swiss passports and escape the debacle the eu is turning into.
All the discussions people have on immigration, sovereignty and the economics are the symptoms and not the cause. Everything radiates from the inception of the euro, you can not replicate an optimal currency area in Europe similar to what the U.S has for obvious reasons.
The eu does not have 10-20 years time to consolidate a fiscal position for the eurozone members – you have three possible scenarios:-
1) Nothing changes - eu continues in it’s deflationary spiral due to the euro – this is an unlikely option because the electorate of the eu are already voting at the ballot box with far left parties and anti-euro parties such as in Germany – The move to the far right has the eu's fingerprints all over it as well with incoherent internal and external migration policies but that’s another story. Look at the correlation of the rise of these dozen or so parties mapped against the macro economic events that have hit the eu in the last 7 years. It’s not a coincidence. The EU parliament will end up looking like a right/left wing protest rally in about 5 years.
If you think this is the most likely option then expect to see uk trade with the eu to continue to diminish whilst being hamstrung to do external trade with other nations (see Switzerland for hedging your bets).
2) Fiscal and political union – The most likely scenario – Do you seriously think that the eu will give due consideration and additional exemptions to the non-euro members during this process. Think about it – Every ounce of energy will be set up to preserve the sanctity of the euro , tax, regulatory, insurance and employment legislation will have to fall into this. Are we all suggesting that the uk will be shielded from this by Camerons negotiations? It can’t happen like that because ultimately the uk will have unfair advantages within the eu and hoover the investments up with it’s more liberal de-regulated structures. In essence the likes of uk/denmark have the ability to create an offshore centre in the heart of the eu! It will not be allowed. Many of the rules they will need to introduce will encroach on the uk ( it may not have to adopt the exact same rules but there will be locks in place to ensure the euro survives and has a level/better playing field with the non euro members)
Even more sweetners will be offered to non euro members to join the currency.
3) The Euro implodes – Not worth thinking about really, but with the UK in the back seat of the car it will avoid the full frontal force of this event but it will definitely be in the a&e ward for a long time one way or another. Do you recall the events of when the eu called the uk to chip in for emergency loans to Greece (the uk said no in the end and it hasn’t been forgotten by the eu) – can you seriously see the uk just whistling next to a lamp post when it’s fellow club members lie littered across the street!
You'll get your remain wish but I fear that you will be on the wrong side of history in the not too distant future.
It’s all a shame really as the eu had it about right at one stage but as usual ideology and good intentions turns into greed when the few at the top can sense even greater power.
BlueMojito
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 1 Sep 2014
- Messages
- 2,341
I too am considering my children’s future and they’re fortunate enough to have swiss passports and escape the debacle the eu is turning into.
All the discussions people have on immigration, sovereignty and the economics are the symptoms and not the cause. Everything radiates from the inception of the euro, you can not replicate an optimal currency area in Europe similar to what the U.S has for obvious reasons.
The eu does not have 10-20 years time to consolidate a fiscal position for the eurozone members – you have three possible scenarios:-
1) Nothing changes - eu continues in it’s deflationary spiral due to the euro – this is an unlikely option because the electorate of the eu are already voting at the ballot box with far left parties and anti-euro parties such as in Germany – The move to the far right has the eu's fingerprints all over it as well with incoherent internal and external migration policies but that’s another story. Look at the correlation of the rise of these dozen or so parties mapped against the macro economic events that have hit the eu in the last 7 years. It’s not a coincidence. The EU parliament will end up looking like a right/left wing protest rally in about 5 years.
If you think this is the most likely option then expect to see uk trade with the eu to continue to diminish whilst being hamstrung to do external trade with other nations (see Switzerland for hedging your bets).
2) Fiscal and political union – The most likely scenario – Do you seriously think that the eu will give due consideration and additional exemptions to the non-euro members during this process. Think about it – Every ounce of energy will be set up to preserve the sanctity of the euro , tax, regulatory, insurance and employment legislation will have to fall into this. Are we all suggesting that the uk will be shielded from this by Camerons negotiations? It can’t happen like that because ultimately the uk will have unfair advantages within the eu and hoover the investments up with it’s more liberal de-regulated structures. In essence the likes of uk/denmark have the ability to create an offshore centre in the heart of the eu! It will not be allowed. Many of the rules they will need to introduce will encroach on the uk ( it may not have to adopt the exact same rules but there will be locks in place to ensure the euro survives and has a level/better playing field with the non euro members)
Even more sweetners will be offered to non euro members to join the currency.
3) The Euro implodes – Not worth thinking about really, but with the UK in the back seat of the car it will avoid the full frontal force of this event but it will definitely be in the a&e ward for a long time one way or another. Do you recall the events of when the eu called the uk to chip in for emergency loans to Greece (the uk said no in the end and it hasn’t been forgotten by the eu) – can you seriously see the uk just whistling next to a lamp post when it’s fellow club members lie littered across the street!
You'll get your remain wish but I fear that you will be on the wrong side of history in the not too distant future.
It’s all a shame really as the eu had it about right at one stage but as usual ideology and good intentions turns into greed when the few at the top can sense even greater power.
Excellent post, you explain it so well. Yes, I'm voting out now.
TRUE BLUE NO1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 24 Jun 2013
- Messages
- 8,200
I too am considering my children’s future and they’re fortunate enough to have swiss passports and escape the debacle the eu is turning into.
All the discussions people have on immigration, sovereignty and the economics are the symptoms and not the cause. Everything radiates from the inception of the euro, you can not replicate an optimal currency area in Europe similar to what the U.S has for obvious reasons.
The eu does not have 10-20 years time to consolidate a fiscal position for the eurozone members – you have three possible scenarios:-
1) Nothing changes - eu continues in it’s deflationary spiral due to the euro – this is an unlikely option because the electorate of the eu are already voting at the ballot box with far left parties and anti-euro parties such as in Germany – The move to the far right has the eu's fingerprints all over it as well with incoherent internal and external migration policies but that’s another story. Look at the correlation of the rise of these dozen or so parties mapped against the macro economic events that have hit the eu in the last 7 years. It’s not a coincidence. The EU parliament will end up looking like a right/left wing protest rally in about 5 years.
If you think this is the most likely option then expect to see uk trade with the eu to continue to diminish whilst being hamstrung to do external trade with other nations (see Switzerland for hedging your bets).
2) Fiscal and political union – The most likely scenario – Do you seriously think that the eu will give due consideration and additional exemptions to the non-euro members during this process. Think about it – Every ounce of energy will be set up to preserve the sanctity of the euro , tax, regulatory, insurance and employment legislation will have to fall into this. Are we all suggesting that the uk will be shielded from this by Camerons negotiations? It can’t happen like that because ultimately the uk will have unfair advantages within the eu and hoover the investments up with it’s more liberal de-regulated structures. In essence the likes of uk/denmark have the ability to create an offshore centre in the heart of the eu! It will not be allowed. Many of the rules they will need to introduce will encroach on the uk ( it may not have to adopt the exact same rules but there will be locks in place to ensure the euro survives and has a level/better playing field with the non euro members)
Even more sweetners will be offered to non euro members to join the currency.
3) The Euro implodes – Not worth thinking about really, but with the UK in the back seat of the car it will avoid the full frontal force of this event but it will definitely be in the a&e ward for a long time one way or another. Do you recall the events of when the eu called the uk to chip in for emergency loans to Greece (the uk said no in the end and it hasn’t been forgotten by the eu) – can you seriously see the uk just whistling next to a lamp post when it’s fellow club members lie littered across the street!
You'll get your remain wish but I fear that you will be on the wrong side of history in the not too distant future.
It’s all a shame really as the eu had it about right at one stage but as usual ideology and good intentions turns into greed when the few at the top can sense even greater power.
Excellent post and very well written AlgarveBlu.....I'm still firmly in the "stay" camp but you made some strong points!; ) thanks....Noticed you mention Switzerland and Just wanted to add even tho they not in EU the Swiss economy is also headed for a rough ride in 2016 -2017 with large cut backs needed...so just coming out of the EU doesnt protect you...interesting report below on why its not going to be easy for the UK and some of the issues facing the swiss economy because they not in the EU....
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/switzerland-norway-models-post-brexit-11392082
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/strong-swiss-franc_swiss-economy-set-for-bumpy-ride-in-2016/41873250
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Monkfish
Well-Known Member
but he didn't say how many times they had overruled a minister he said how many time we had tried to force a change and been successful. He was correct It's ZERO times.
Why??? if we vote to leave the EU will there be gunships all around the coast stopping anyone from leaving or coming in? Don't be stupid! a vote to leave is not a vote to live our lives out on this island with no friends or anyone to trade with or any immigration it's a vote for it to be our decisions not someone else's!
On the first bit go and read it again
On the second bit my congratulations on an apt username
Dextersmate
Well-Known Member
Why would there be a vote on that issue (or any issue) You´ve already voted, people may think they are voting for the status quo but in reality they are voting for more integration. The loss of the pound, an EU army, centralised government. In the EU with Germany setting the rates for the Euro it destroyed the club med - Spain, Portugal, Italy Greece, these arn´t cities these are entire countries destroyed. Google tells me 30% youth unemployment in Portugal, 45% in Spain and 39% in Italy. Worst of all 49% in Greece.
The EU is a bureaucracy. The UK is a democracy. A lot of people would prefer to be governed by a democracy.
UK is a Plutocracy, knobhead;-).
Monkfish
Well-Known Member
The Common Market seems to evolved into something completely different since the last referendum in 1975.
Did people complain about not having a vote on this as much as they do now they have been given a vote on this?
Monkfish
Well-Known Member
I do hope you're not suggesting Mr Milliband will be looking to return to politics as the Leader of the Conservatives.... Now that would be a turnaround, it would knock Call me Dave's gyrations into a cocked hat, that's for sure! Seriously though I think both political parties are going to have major leadership issues come 24th June and maybe Mr Milliband senior (I think) would fancy his chances!
To be honest he would make a good leader of both, which is probably why he would make a good leader of the country (from what i have seen and heard from him anyway), not exactly a great deal of competition is there in either party
We should go all in and sign Merkel
AlgarveBlu
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Excellent post and very well written AlgarveBlu.....I'm still firmly in the "stay" camp but you made some strong points!; ) thanks....
No problem, and I'm not trying to change anyone's votes as every one has different reasons to vote on this ref but it's frustrating to continuously read arguments from the remain side that are framed around the economic risks of leaving which are all based on a snapshot of our relationship with the eu today when there is a binary outcome for the future that needs to be considered for the uk in the eu.
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